LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:45 am

United Airlines at Wahington Dulles International Airport was to be a major player in the United Airlines route system!

What Happened?

Discontinued Routes-

IAD-MXP
IAD-MXP-FCO
IAD-FCO
IAD-MAD
IAD-MAN
IAD-GLA
IAD-ARN
IAD-SMF

United Airlines has over the past year tried to build Washington Dulles up by the introduction of three new international routes.

New Routes-

IAD-GRU-GIG
IAD-EZE
IAD-SJU

How are the new South American routes doing? Everytime I go to buy a ticket for Brazil there is always a special that is offered only via Washington Dulles!

There has been recent discussion of as to the profitability of the Washington Dulles base still exists! There has been discussion as to the status of ACA with United Airlines at Washington Dulles as well!

True to fact ANA, Austrian, and SAS fly to IAD! However, it is not actual United Airlines it is their partners.

Does anyone know of any new routes planned for Washington Dulles?

Does anyone know if they are looking at building PHL into a “Star Alliance” Base?

PHL, has been growing more and more with the the continued US Airways growth

PHL-FCO
PHL-MAD
PHL-CDG
PHL-AMS
PHL-MAD
PHL-DUB
PHL-SNN
PHL-LGW
PHL-MAN
PHL-GLA
PHL-EDI
PHL-MUC
PHL-FRA

PHL, has claim to Lufthansa as well. Perhaps, a second daily flight to MUC on Lufthansa.. Or perhaps Lufthansa will look into introduction of new service to DUS on Lufthansa for the 2004 season.

It would seem as though PHL, combined with US Airways has the upper hand when it comes to International Service by a Star Alliance partner!
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:55 am

first of all, UA never operated these routes:

IAD-MXP-FCO
IAD-FCO
IAD-MAD
IAD-MAN
IAD-GLA
IAD-ARN

in addition to the routes you mentioned, UA has also added aruba and san jose, costa rica, as well as restoring some routes and frequencies initially dropped after 9/11.

UA IS a major player in the UA system. UA has repeatedly stated their commitment to the airport. IAD is very profitable for UA for transcons, intl/european routes, hub to hub, and for the feeder service (UA and UAX) into those markets. IAD also offers something most airports - especially PHL - do not: room (and plans) for additional terminal and runway growth.

i think IAD still has the upper hand for star alliance service and connecting options, if you look at LH, austrian, sas, ana, and bmi. thats not to say that there arent opportunities at PHL as well.
 
Guest

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:58 am

I see you are back under a different name, kl777jfk, still trying to stir up trouble.
 
doninfc
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:35 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:07 am

Potomac:

actually, UA did fly IAD-FCO-MXP-IAD and IAD-MAD-IAD in the mid 90s. I flew both of those routes in 1995.
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:10 am

i knew about the MXP flight but i was certain that FCO was never in the mix. and i thought MAD was served only by spanair thru codeshare. oh well, stand corrected.
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:30 am

UA did serve MAD, with a 767-300ER. It wasn't profitable, so it was discontinued, and a codeshare with SpanAir was set up. Now, since all that, SpanAir has discontinued their flight to IAD.

UA also flew to MXP, but I don't think Rome. This route was also served by a 763, and was discontinued shortly after 9/11.

UA did fly to GLA, also using a 763, but due to poor loads, it too was discontinued.

UA never flew to Stockholm.

The short answer to why UA flights out of IAD (incl. the domestic) can be explained by a.) 9-11 b.) US economy in a downturn and c.) UA's bankruptcy, which forced them to revisit routes that were unprofitable and a drag on resources.

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
N670UW
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:34 am

US Airways does not fly PHL-EDI. No US carrier flies to EDI. CO will begin next spring from EWR.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:35 am

POTOMAC, PROUDTOFLYAA...

United Airlines operated

IAD-MXP with 767-300
discontinued post-9/11

IAD-MXP-FCO with 747-200
discontinued mid 1990's

IAD-FCO with 747-200
discontimued mid 1990's

IAD-MAN with 767-300
discontinued mid 1990's

IAD-GLA with 767-300
discontinued late 1990's

IAD-MAD with 767-300
discontinued mid 1990's

In 1989, United Airlines announced that they were to be sharing services with Alitalia United would fly aircraft to Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and form that point the passengers would board an Alitalia aircraft!

The agreement, partnership... whatever you may call it went sour.. thusfore United Airlines reduced its capacity in the Italian market to one single daily departure to Milan/Malpensa on a 767. This was ended after 9-11-01!

I stand correted on the service to Stockholm, UAL never served Stockholm!
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:36 am

and the MXP flight actually used a 777 during the summer before it was pulled after 9/11. i think DUS (or another european market from IAD) was pulled at the same time as MXP. i honestly cant recall MAD and GLA on UA, but if they did ever occur, they were pulled some time in the mid 90's.

IAD still remains the largest european gateway for UA.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:41 am

If anyone has info on the IAD-GLA route I would love to know the exact date it was discontinued.

I don't ever remember this route operating out of IAD. Wish we still had it.

One of the only pluses with CO is they have some really nice European routes,EDI being on of them.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:41 am

Never knew UA flew to MAN...learn something new every day! Now it's through the BMI partnership, and BMI also goes up to Glasgow as well.

Also, UA served ZRH for a while as well, discontinued before 9/11 I think. It used a 767-300ER.

The flight between IAD and MAD was #910/911. When I flew home from a trip in May 1993, I rode #911 (a 742 at the time) from IAD to ORD.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Kempa
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:47 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:45 am

IAD-GRU-GIG and IAD-EZE were JFK flights that were transfered to IAD. UA can use code-shared RG flights out of JFK. They had two ticketable flights from JFK to GRU, now they have only the RG one. It makes sense to use IAD as one of the UA gateways to GRU because of the number of possible connecting flights coming into IAD.

I have flown on the IAD-GRU three times R/T, and have never found it to be less than 95% full.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:55 am

Usually, I prefer to fly Varig to Brazil..via JFK or LAX.. Brazilian Flight Crew, Brazilian Food, Brazilian Music, Brazilian Movies... It is very nice to see that they are doing well on the IAD-GRU route.

Any chance of a return to the 777 from ORD-GRU?

That is very missed...now we get stuck on a 767-300 everytime we go through ORD!
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:56 am

I don't have exact dates, but IAD-GLA started in the late 80's and was discontinued in the early 90's, maybe a result of Desert Storm in '91.

I believe AA still operates a flight to GLA, but maybe from DFW, BOS, or ORD.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:01 am

Potomac,

Isnt UAL having labor issues with ACA at IAD??
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:07 am

There is no doubt that UA will suffer dearly for their current spat w/ ACA regardless of how it turns out and IAD is very likely to be the biggest casualty. Even if new agreements are signed w/ other carriers, ACA leaves a huge whole to fill; even if they stay, it will be terrible service. You just don't quickly get over a spat this big.

I would expect that you will see B6 ratchet things up at IAD after WN's announcement at PHL. B6, WN, and FL are in a turf war for the NE and IAD still has much LCC growth opportunity.

 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:14 am

i think UA certainly recognizes the importance of an 'express feed' into its mainline operations, which is why they have been positioning a replacement for ACA for some time now. even if it ends up being a combo of express carriers (mesa, awac, trans states) then no, they wont be able to completely replace the ACA network in the short-term. however, i dont think the routes and frequencies they can't replace right away will be enough to drive the whole hub into the ground.

though this is (and has been) another thread in of itself, i think ACA without the UA feed may be a bigger concern than UA with out the ACA feed - at least UA is looking to backfill.

also, it wouldnt surprise me if another LCC like airtran or jetblue looks to build up service at IAD. and as i havent mentioned before, there is a RUMOR that the possible future "virgin america" LCC is strongly considering IAD as a hub.

 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:22 am

stevenuhl777,

The Glasgow service is from ORD on the 767!

I remember I was working for a major tour operator when they pulled Glasgow and another city. UAL, left a big gap in the market!
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:36 pm

LHR001,
Tell me more, what kind of a gap did they leave? Was there a big market for this route? Does AA fill there ORD-GLA?

Nice to see CO doing their part to keep the gateway to Scotland open.

EWR-EDI.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:37 pm

LHR001,
Tell me more, what kind of a gap did they leave? Was there a big market for this route? Does AA fill there ORD-GLA?

Nice to see CO doing their part to keep the gateway to Scotland open.

EWR-EDI.
Scotland has to be one of the most beautiful places on this planet to visit.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:01 am

As Potomoc reinforces, IAD is probably the best airport in the NE for expansion and the LCC's including Virgin America certainly realize it. Not only does it serve a large metropolitan area but it is nearly unique in the NE in that it has room to expand (runway capacity, esp) and has a fraction of the ATC delays seen in airports farther north. However, WAS is far enough north to capture all of the major European to US traffic flows except from BOS and NYC to Europe which have their own nonstop services.

LCC's are going to dramatically grow in their penetration of the major NE markets in the next two to three years and IAD is ripe for accommodating it.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:15 am

UAL777CONTRAIL-

At the time that United Airlines pulled out of the Glasgow market there were only three other airlines that were serving Glasgow from North America.

Air Canada
YYZ-GLA

American Airlines
ORD-GLA

British Airways
JFK-GLA

British Airways has also since pulled out of the JFK-GLA market. Theye were using a 767-300. British Airways also pulled out of the JFK-BHX market that was flown on a 757-200.

When United Airlines pulled out it left travllers with only two choices Air Canada, and American Airlines.

Air Canada, who primarily serves the East Coast was feeding traffic through Toronto. Only people that were connecting from LAX, SFO, SEA were able to connect to Air Canada.

American Airlines, the airline that offered the most connections offered as typical American Airlines style, some of the highest fares in the market!

United Airlines did offer rather attractive fares in the market!

American Airlines today has a very good business using the 767 to Glasgow. As expected summertime the flights are as full to Glasgow as they are to Paris, or Rome.

Continental Airlines has greatly filled the gap in air service to Great Britain.

EWR-EDI
EWR-GLA
EWR-BHX
EWR-MAN
EWR-SNN
EWR-DUB
EWR-LGW
EWR-STN (discontinued)

If memory serves me correctly before the days of the long-haul Continental 757 program the routes to GLA, and BHX were flown on DC-10-30 aircraft.

Air Canada, in the mid 1990's was using a 74E to service YYZ-GLA-MAN!
 
ORD2PHL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 9:15 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:16 am

It would seem to me that IAD is primed for LCC expansion, with B6 already having a foot in the door there and WN threatening at PHL, B6 would do well to expand low fare opportunities in the mid atlantic. IMHO IAD is more conducive to the LCC environment than PHL, being less delay prone and better room for future expansion. B6 will have an easier time turning around a/c at IAD and keeping utilization high than WN will at PHL.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: UA At IAD Vs. US At PHL

Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:36 am

It would seem as if WN, may be making a grave decision on entering the PHL market. WN, has very rapid turns - in the area of 20 to 25 minutes. In PHL they may have to go to 45minutes to 1 hour! This should be very interesting to see!

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