AC330
Topic Author
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:20 am

Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:47 am

Does anyone know if Virgin Atlantic has ANY plans to return to Toronto at all?? I would LOVE to see them back in Canada somewhere!

AC330
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:55 am

AC 330...I have heard some talk of it, nothing substantive. You may recall that their start up timing the last time could not have been worse: very close to 9/11. Had that horrible event not happened they were committed to the route for at least a year to build some goodwill.

I have heard that BA wants to keep them out to some degree and therefore will keep at least 2 dailies YYZ-LHR (in addition to how many AC and other charter flights? Lots anyway), so the market may not need it, and Virgin will be cautious.

One credibile source tells me they would not even consider it until TNew is up and running and the ongoing controversy over GTAA fees may dissuade them. Same source told me they might even consider YUL as an alternative but that they would much prefer YYZ if possible (i.e. not cost prohibitive).

However if AC were to tank completely (highly unlikely in my humble view), they would quickly try to get a foot in the door to YYZ.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:33 pm

I really think it is a matter of time before VS returns to Toronto or somewhere else in Canada. It is a huge market, and eventhough it is well served presently, VS brings panache and will not have any problem getting their own customers.

Now regarding VS as well ... when (if ever) will they join Star Alliance? Now that would be a great move, especially since they are owned by Singapore Airlines (49% or 51%, I forget). Then if they were part of Star Alliance, of course they could offer connections here in Canada through Air Canada's network.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:50 pm

If VS restarts YYZ then I advise them to do it from LHR and not LGW as it is very inconvineient for pax to transfer from LGW to LHR.

Plus a majority of connecting flights from YYZ to Africa and India are via LHR and not LGW. Virgin will further spice up competition on the YYZ-DEL route when it reenters YYZ hopefully from LHR.

Flights to YYZ should be daily minimum otherwise it wont do well as AC has 5 daily LHR flights and BA 2 daily (on some days 3). Aircraft to be used should be either an A 346 or B 744 NOT AN A 343!!!

Lastly can someone please explain to me as to why Lufthansa downgraded YYZ flights from B 744s to A 332s??? Were their flights that empty to warrant 150 less seats per flight as a result of the A 332 taking over from the B 744???
 
canuckpaxguy
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:31 pm

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:00 pm


Here! Here! Come back to YYZ Virgin!
Unfortunately, a representative from Virgin confirmed they have no immediate plans to return service to Toronto.

sniff, sniff.

Behramjee --- why no 343? Personal preference or another reason?

G
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:25 pm

Behramjee, I read elsewhere that LH wants to add a third frequency to YYZ in November, with AC taking over afterwords, so I'm not sure if capacity is being split differently between Lufthansa and Air Canada. We will see the A346 on a few flights, but from what I understand, this is only temporary.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:46 pm

Lastly can someone please explain to me as to why Lufthansa downgraded YYZ flights from B 744s to A 332s??? Were their flights that empty to warrant 150 less seats per flight as a result of the A 332 taking over from the B 744???

LH will operate 2x daily A332s plus codeshare on the AC 1x daily B744 on the YYZ-FRA route from November 12 onwards.

From January 12, these 2x daily A332s will be replaced with 1x daily A346 and AC will operate a second daily B763 in addition to their daily B744.

Hence, we will see INCREASED capacity on YYZ-FRA routes this winter season, not a DECREASE in capacity.

[Edited 2003-10-30 05:48:10]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:57 pm

Hey Sean,

The Extra LH frequency to YYZ is a 3 weekly service!

AS of April, Air Canada will have 3 daily YYZ-FRA, and Lufthansa 1 daily.. so in total 4 daily YYZ-FRA, which is a lot of capacity.

Surprisingly, AC will have a 74E and LH with have an A346 departing 5 mins apart from eachother.

Mark
 
CanadaEH
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:01 pm

Virgin Atlantic - Very large international carrier out of Europe.
Pacific Blue - Very small international carrier out of Australia.
Virgin Blue - large domestic carrier in Australia.
Virgin ?? - new low cost carrier in the US.

Sounds like he's already got a pretty good "alliance" going on, no?  Smile

Just an FYI, Lufthansa downgraded its daily 744 flight in YVR to a daily A343 flight. Rumour has it that it will be upgraded to a daily A346 flight after Christmas.
EH.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:16 pm

The Extra LH frequency to YYZ is a 3 weekly service!

Not exactly. LH 476 runs as a daily A332 from November 12 to December 8, then becomes 3x weekly from December 10 to December 17, then becomes a 6x weekly service (xSat) from December 18 to January 11.

The 3rd AC frequency will launch April 5th with an A333, which will boost the route to 1x A333, 1x B763, 1x A346 and 1x B744.

Hardly the DECREASE in capacity which Behramjee is implying. Perhaps a little more research would have cleared this up for him.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:47 pm

VS flew YYZ-LGW in summer 2001 because LHR slots were unavailable.

When (as opposed to if, IMHO) AC shuts down and is liquidated, we can expect VS to quickly reenter the YYZ market to make up for the AC capacity loss. Make no mistake....AC has a strong chance of collapsing. VS may reenter the YYZ to take advantage of AC's continuing financial difficulties while AC is stil flying.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:24 pm

Seems like AC's international routes are doing very well, so there's hope that AC will be around for a little while longer.  Smile
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
rindt
Posts: 876
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 3:08 pm

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:28 pm

Brandon... there's no "rumour"... it's been known for months that on Feb8th LH starts A346 service to YVR.

-Rob
What other people think of you is none of your business!
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:40 pm

Seems like AC's international routes are doing very well

According to who? Have you seen AC's financials?




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
klik
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2000 2:23 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:20 pm

I don't think BA are keeping the two daily flights just to keep out VS. They've had two daily for a few years now, and the extra three frequencies per week will operate for six months in '04 (they were very successful this past July/Aug). BA are doing fantastic in all cabins from YYZ - and why shouldn't they? Their service is WAY superior to AC's.
 
airchabum
Posts: 754
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 pm

VS would like to return to YYZ when conditions improve as it is one of the top 10 longhaul destinations from the UK in terms of pax numbers. Flights were operated by 747 Classic in 2001 daily from LGW but loads were poor even before 9/11 happened (rarely above 200 pax). Yes it would be nice to get enough LHR slots to operate from there but they are like rocking-horse sh!t so it's very unlikely.

Starting flights to Australia seems to be the priority at the moment with most other things being put on the back-burner. Also there is very little spare capacity at the moment...there may be some in the future when all the 346's have been delivered if some of the 343's are retained, but the 346's and 744's are all fully utilised at the moment.

Cheers
Biggidy biggidy bong
 
CanadaEH
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Is Virgin Ever Coming Back To YYZ?

Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:05 am

Feb 8 eh Rob? Thanks for the info!
EH.

Who is online