flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:09 pm

Was checking reservation systems and I have found BOS-FCO with AZ nonstop for next summer?

Can anybody confirm this? This would confirm that AZ would be interesting in adding North America-FCO routes.

Montreal-Rome is a possibility next summer, discussions between AZ and the ADM are currently in progress.

Mark
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:13 pm

BOS-FCO could be a delta codeshare, but it could also be AZ. I hope they add more FCO routes. MXP-SFO is a rumor. Maybe FCO-SFO could come too.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
sarrebal
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:10 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:57 pm

The last thing AZ needs is to add flights out of such a low yield market as FCO.
They should focus on MXP, which is the main Italian airport.
FCO-SFO doesn't make any sense, since SFO is a popular leisure destination for Italian pax (most of them are in Northern Italy).
 
sarrebal
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:10 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:17 pm

AZ management has clearly said that any extra FCO service would be strictly seasonal
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:28 pm

This has been talked about for a while, IIRC. I have heard it is happening. A while back, Alitalia consolidated most of thier long-haul flying to Milan. However, lately, they began adding a lot more long-hauls out of Rome. Alitalia "split" frequencies to Tokyo Narita, Osaka Kansai, Sao Paulo, and Caracas last year between the two (at one point, MXP-KIX did not operate at all; I think it re-started very recently). There have been rumours for a while now that they were going to add Boston and re-add Miami to Rome's long-hauls. Boston as a second seasonal flight, Miami as a split with Milan (5x MXP/2x FCO). Rome airport authorities have pushing for Boston and Miami for a long time. No luck with Miami, though, because Alitalia carries a strong amount of business traffic on the route and will not split it.
a.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:33 pm

Weird about Rome. The ADM is in talks with AZ for YUL-FCO, on a seasonal basis.

I would assume that if AC doesnt want YYZ-FCO back, AZ will jump all over it.

Mark
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:54 pm

Weird about Rome. The ADM is in talks with AZ for YUL-FCO, on a seasonal basis.

Yawn. More YUL glossing. Clearly, AZ has opted for BOS, not YUL.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:02 pm

Neil im trying to make a point.

Alitalia is definitely looking to start some operations out of FCO for the summer months. They are already on the sked for BOS, and if AC doesnt not attempt to go back to FCO on the YYZ/YUL-FCO, AZ would most likely take over from there... lot of potential on these routes, in terms of load factor.. yield is not so good tho.

Mark
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:08 pm

Mark, no one cares if the ADM is in talks with AZ etc. It means nothing. What counts is when flights are added. The ADM seems to be desparately chasing every airline anyway.

AC doesnt not attempt to go back to FCO on the YYZ/YUL-FCO, AZ would most likely take over from there... lot of potential on these routes, in terms of load factor.. yield is not so good tho.

Wy is there potential? Canada-Italy traffic has fallen since the 1980's since most Italian Cdns are now 2nd and 3rd generation and hence travel to Italy less. There is not "lots of potential".

YYZ received a daily AZ 742 and CP D10 from FCO in the late 70's.....much higher capacity than today.

It's a shrinking leisure market. Stop glossing it up.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:11 pm

Firstly, AZ has approached the ADM because when AC proposed a YUL-FCO last summer with AZ codeshare, the sales caught AZ's attention... no whether or not you buy it is up to you.. and frankly I dont care because im not here to spread misinformation.

Its not just 2nd or 3rd generations Italians living in Canada that visit, Rome is one of the world's biggest tourist destinations. If YYZ-FCO is gonna go completely unserved next summer, you better bet that at least AZ would want a piece of it. AC hasnt programmed anything in their res.system yet for FCO.

Mark
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:16 pm

Its not just 2nd or 3rd generations Italians living in Canada that visit, Rome is one of the world's biggest tourist destinations.

Then why has Italy-Cda traffic plummeted since the 70s's? It's a shrinking market Mark.


Firstly, AZ has approached the ADM

Whatever, it's completely irrelevant until flights start. Stop YUL glossing.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:20 pm

How do you know its plummeted? Where are your sources?

Are you assuming that it has because AZ once operated a 742 (back in teh days where it was losing more money tan AIr Canada), or because Crown corporate CP air had a daily YYZ-FCO on it?

Italy is one of the top 2 or 3 destinations pair from Canada, in terms of travel to Europe. 1st being the UK, 2nd France.

Mark
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:23 pm

How do you know its plummeted? Where are your sources?

The drastic drop in seat capcaity since the 70's on Italy-Cda flights. The market is shrinking.

UK, France & Germany are the biggest Euro destinations. Italy is a distant 4th or 5th.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:25 pm

The 70s isnt indicative of anything... these are the days of unprofitable/crown corporate prestige routes....

Mark
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:27 pm

The 70s isnt indicative of anything... these are the days of unprofitable/crown corporate prestige routes....

CP was private sector...they ran a mix of 742 and D10 to Italy then.

The market is shrinking. There is little potential.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4397
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:32 pm

Little potential.. everybody stop your flights to Italy.. AZ/TS/SSV stop right now, there is LITTLE potential.
 
johnboy
Posts: 2560
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:08 pm

Normally I don't comment on pissing matches that don't involve myself, but can you gentlemen please stop arguing on every post that crosses the wire?
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:26 pm

It's nice to visit the Colosseum in Berlin or the St. Mark's Square in London..:P
 
User avatar
DaV
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 5:26 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:22 pm

And the weekly YUL vs YYZ starts again for our joy...

No YUL service at the horizon, no YYZ freq addition at the horizon. Period.

DaV
Two monologues do not make a dialogue
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:26 pm

Nothing showing for BOS-FCO direct service any time next summer on published schedules. Nor on ARCO...

1AZSD01APRBOSFCO
** AZ - ALITALIA **
NO DIRECT FLTS
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:34 am

Look for MXP-SFO on Alitalia
(Strong rumor with Italian Travel Agents)

Look for MXP-IAD on Alitalia
(Strong rumor with Italian Travel Agents)

Look for FCO-CVG or FCO-BOS on Delta Airlines
(Delta Airlines was to commence FCO-BOS in 2003, never got off the ground)
 
matt777
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2001 8:55 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:32 am

"Look for MXP-SFO on Alitalia
(Strong rumor with Italian Travel Agents)

Look for MXP-IAD on Alitalia
(Strong rumor with Italian Travel Agents)"

With the entry of the new 777-200ER those will be possible.
Regards,
Matt Big thumbs up
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:52 am

Alitalia has wanted to return to San Francisco using the 777, for about a year now.

Alitalia, originally operated the route in 1999-2001 using the 767-300ER, there were many problems with the pax/cargo restrictions.

Alitalia, served Los Angeles.. althought compared to the San Francisco flight. Los Angeles was for tourism, verses San Francisco for business!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:54 am

Look for FCO-CVG or FCO-BOS on Delta Airlines

BOS-FCO is still a possibility with DL, but CVG-FCO is not any more.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:13 am

Alitalia, served Los Angeles.. althought compared to the San Francisco flight. Los Angeles was for tourism, verses San Francisco for business!

No, the San Francisco flight was full of tourists and VFRs, not "for business". Despite Italy being the world's seventh largest economy, the business market between Italy and the United States is fairly small. It mainly exists between Milan and New York City/Newark (for obvious reasons) and Milan and Miami (fashion industry), hence those are Alitalia's 777 destinations (MIA eff. 01Jan).
a.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:08 am

MAH4546,

For you having lived in San Francisco... you sure haven't much knowledge as to Industry, and Italians in the area!

You are saying Alitalia will not return to San Francisco or Los Angeles?

Perhaps, you should be working for Alitalia... that way you can tell them where they should and should not fly to! You may want to work for the San Francisco Airport Commission, that way you can tell them who they should not be marketing to!

Miami for fashion? .... news flash - Miami for leisure!

San Francisco for leisure?.... news flash - San Francisco for commerce!
... Let me correct you - from October to March these flights cater to Business Traffic.. from April to September these flights cater to Leisure Traffic!

Los Angeles for Leisure.. yes... Los Angeles for Commerce.. yes

You seem to also know more than anyone else on this forum about San Francisco, Italians, Alitalia, and such!

So... Lets see into your crystal ball!

Alitalia... BOS-FCO?

Alitalia... SFO-MXP?

Alitalia... LAX-MXP?

Alitalia... ORD-FCO?

American Airlines... SJC-NRT? (how much longer)

Lets see how you do!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:14 am

Miami for fashion? .... news flash - Miami for leisure!

News flash! Miami for fashion. Alitalia's daily Miami-Milan service caters strongly to the fashion industry. Hence, when the fashion boom started a few years back, Alitalia went from 3xMXP/2xFCO at MIA to daily MXP, because the business market demanded it. Hence why the current 767-300ER serving the route operates with Classe Magnifica, not Coral Class used on leisure services like Boston. Hence, starting 1 Janauary 2004, MIA-MXP will be operated with a 777-200ER, which caters strongly to the business market with thier premium Classe Magnifica services.

You seem to also know more than anyone else on this forum about San Francisco, Italians, Alitalia, and such!

Are you kidding yourself Kl777jfk? Where did I ever state this? If anyone claims to be the know-it-all, it is yourself.
a.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:17 am

If you know Alitalia... talk about it!

If not... stop guessing!

See the forum - SFO2004!

Re- San Francisco
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:18 am

Kl, perhaps you should go work for Alitalia and explain to them how they should keep profitable destinations like San Francsico and Los Angeles and discontinue the unprofitable leisure ones such as Miami.

I never once stated that Alitalia should not return to SFO. The market between SFO and Italy is huge, it just is not business traffic.
a.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:22 am

The Los Angeles - Milan/MXP flights were always full...

747-200, 747-200 Combi, MD-11 Combi

The San Francisco - Milan/MXP flights were not always full (see below)...

767-300 (due to cargo/pax restrictions on thr route)

TWA flew

SFO-JFK-MXP on 747, 767

United flew

SFO-IAD-MXP on 767, 777

There is a strong demand there! Have you seen the numbers of Italians on West Coast passengers of Air France, British Airways, KLM, and Lufthansa?

They are loaded!

 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:24 am

The Los Angeles - Milan/MXP flights were always full...

I never have disputed that. I am positive they were. Yet they still were a money looser for Alitalia. For someone so knowledgeable about the airline industry, I sure hope you understand the concept of yield. LAX just did not have it for Alitalia.
a.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:26 am

MAH4546,

You stated!

----No, the San Francisco flight was full of tourists and VFRs, not "for business". Despite Italy being the world's seventh largest economy, the business market between Italy and the United States is fair!

Just went upon what you stated! So you are saying there is demand?

Okay, cleared!

ciao


LHR001
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:31 am

MAH4546,

You are correct in yield playing a MAJOR role!

The Los Angeles flights were originally operated 3 x a week on 747-200 Combi!

The Los Angeles flights went to MD-11 in the mid 1990's, and soon after daily service began!

The drop in demand wa on the daily services, and Alitalias notorious late arrivals, and overbookings at LAX!

The San Francisco flights were parallel to Los Angeles departing within 20 minutes of each other.

SFO, utilized a 767-300

LAX, utilized a MD-11

With 2 daily departures at almost 480 seats, daily... that was a lot of seats to fill! Now, using one aircraft.. and one route... crossing fingers they will comeback strong!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:18 am

There will be news on new US- Rome service within the next few days, if not hours.... stay tuned. Hint: ConcordeBoy doesn't have the full story.
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:29 am

i believe alitalia already announced seasonal service to IAD at least a month ago
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AZ BOS-FCO

Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:18 am

You stated!

----No, the San Francisco flight was full of tourists and VFRs, not "for business". Despite Italy being the world's seventh largest economy, the business market between Italy and the United States is fair!

Just went upon what you stated! So you are saying there is demand?

Okay, cleared!


Of course I am saying there is demand. There is a lot of demand, it just is not business traffic.
a.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 2175301, AsiaTravel, atal17, blink182, BobPatterson, doug_or, eidvm, Exabot [Bot], FAST Enterprise [Crawler], flyguy89, Google [Bot], haynflyer, kaichinshih, Moosfliege, Ned Kelly, readytotaxi, Smoketrails, Speedbird77E, TailDragging, ThePointblank, yonahleung and 186 guests