qantasboy
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The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:31 pm

Would this be suitable on its SYD LAX AND SYD JFK routes, rather than a 744?
 
The Coachman
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:47 pm

Only if you're carrying a lot of cargo. B744ER better fit for SYD-LAX because of higher passenger capacity. Higher yields available with more F and J class space.
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
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RayChuang
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:54 pm

QF is interested in carrying more passengers, not more cargo. As a result, QF's future long-range widebody purchases will be either more 747-400ER's or more A380-800's.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:58 pm

I'd say, neither.

QF is the sole remaining "Working Together" airline yet to place an order for their 777s... and they were (along with MH, AA, and NZ) one of the largest proponents for a C-class twinjet from Boeing.

772LR and 773ER... great combo with their A330s, as many airlines are proving today.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
LHR001
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:41 am

With Qantas purchasing the A330-200, perhaps the A340 is not such a unforseen purchase.

The A340-500, is fast becoming associated with luxury and range.

Please note Emirates, Gulf Air and Singapore Airlines.

The 777.. is played out!

 
na
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:50 am

Concordeboy,
how often you might repeat it and include it in your goodnights prayers, you won´t change the truth: a 777 would be an oddity in QFs fleet, a straightaway stupid decision among Airbusses in the class below (A330s) and above (A380s). Sizewise only the 744s makes real sense inbetween, some A340s maybe, but I don´t see a need for them right now.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:02 am

Okay guys
One thing may FORCE this.... That would be competition! If we see a Non-stop SYD-JFK flight from a competitor (and this would almost certainly be in the form of an A345), well, QF may have to run and get some very very quickly) afterall, QF charges a premium for its first and business products. Who on earth is going to pay the premium and be FORCED to stop in that hole LAX? It may be Air NZ.. It may be virgin... but sooner or later somebody else will do it. I think this aircraft would be will suited to Qantas' long haul ops anway, so if they do get it, i'd say they'd be sticking with it.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:21 am

Na,
I realize you're not very well versed in the subject... but you cannot possibly be serious can you? Larger global airlines choose aircraft based on performance and price (acquisition and sustained)... not "loyalty", not "looks", and [contrary to what seems the gospel of a.net posters] with limited emphasis on commonality to other fleet types.

That's why you already see so many A330/777 operators as is. Also, lest you forget the A380 was a complete oddball in QF's fleet when first ordered as well.



SYD-JFK flight from a competitor (and this would almost certainly be in the form of an A345)

too bad an A345 cannot fly that route with any decent pax-payload  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Lufthansa
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:34 am

Concorde boy.... well it can't do the flights from Singapore proposed without restrictions either....

Frequent travellers, particulary those on business are going to be happy to pay a little extra for the non-stop service.... If it can work for SIA to that little island called singapore, which is really just a red dot on a map, there is no reason why Sydney can't support a premium service. The amount of high profile government traffic, ppl in the arts and theatre world and financial services alone are a very strong market for NYC-SYD flights.... now add in the Government and diplomatic traffic, and u have a very big market that is willing to pay a premium prices.... HENCE 7 abread A345 economy is ECONOMIALLY viable.

Now the market for Cargo in between JFK and SYD is nothing. Plus there is more than enough capacity through LAX. Continental's EWK HKG flights also operate on the basis that passengers would be willing to pay a little extra, to forgot the cargo.... and it works!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:41 am

Notice I didnt say restrictions... I said "with any decent pax-payload"


The A345's range is 9954mi

LAX-SIN is "only" 8770mi, and it needs a payload restriction for that.

With JFK-SYD being 9950mi, throw in a winter wind, and there's no way in Hades that the plane will be able to make the westbound with anything remotely resembling a profitable load; particularly if the 1stop via LAX is still operating alongside it.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
na
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:51 am

Your arguments are so flawed, ConcordeBoy.
As is your intro. You are so blinded by your shining 777 that it amuses me.

Don´t forget QF ordered the A380 together with the A330s, and now that they both will be reality (the A330 is) there´s nothing "odd" with them in QFs fleet. Now the decision is made I can´t help to repeat, a 777 would be, now and still in 5 years from now, and oddball down under.
Where do I say airlines choose by looks? Bull* that is.
And by saying airlines choose by price you don´t do the overpriced 777 a favour. Because exactly that is a killer argument AGAINST Boeings big twin.
And don´t forget commonality IS a money issue.
You´re not seriously denying that the 777 has a serious competitor in the A340, do you? You still try like Sysiphos, but that doesn´t make it true. Keep trying to amuse other a.net members.

The A380 definitely has no opponent unless Boeing launches the 747NG (and even then less than 777 vs.A340), so QFs decision was a logical step here based on capacity issues.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:02 am

I'm not one to readily confuse knowledge of a subject with aggression theretoward... spare yourself  Laugh out loud

By oddball, I meant QF was an all-Boeing operator for years before the A330s made it into their fleet... they being a thow-in addition to the A380 order.


Where do I say airlines choose by looks?

who accused you of saying it?


And don´t forget commonality IS a money issue

So is performance, often outweighing it in terms of consideration.



And by saying airlines choose by price you don´t do the overpriced 777 a favour.

Wrong. While the 777 is generally listed as having higher acquisition cost; it's resale value is significantly higher than its competitor, as is its longterm operational/maintenance costs generally lower.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Lufthansa
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:15 am

a few things

Etops restrictions.... A345 more suited to Qantas large pacific operation,
but I think the most interesting point here is the way SIA have configured it.

Lets say QF basically copy the layout, using their new business sleeper seats and 7abread econ. You basically have the existing capacity of QF business class, and about 120 economy seats. With that kind of load....that is, less than 200 people on board, well i think it can easy make the trip westward.
The existing business class is very full.... But i think QF can go onestep further, add a full First class sleeper and cut economy back even further, to maybe just 100 seats, and u easy have a lot of money. QF transpacific business class and first class runs EXTREMELY full. It could turn out a big money maker.
 
joleb
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:19 am

No A345 or 346

if they would buy more it would be 744ER or A380

maybe if they want longer range destinations they would buy 777-200LR
and thats a plane by the way.

If it would be me I would go with the longest non stop plane in the world (777-200LR) but then thats me  Smile
 
rupertvander82
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:22 am

Well, for SIA, currently commonality is more important than the performance? Abusing of 777s in Asian routes...
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:39 am

Etops restrictions.... A345 more suited to Qantas large pacific operation

What ETOPS restrictions?

ETOPS180 operations are more and more common south of the equator with countries such as the USA (et al) opening now allowing it. Also, ExtendedRange and LongerRange 777s are expected to begin ETOPS330 qualifications/certification next year, meaning that the Antarctic mainland will be the only ETOPS noFly zones remaining.


Well, for SIA, currently commonality is more important than the performance? Abusing of 777s in Asian routes...

Not really.

When SQ purchased most of those 777s; the Asian Economic Crisis was over and neither SARS, 9/11, nor the general worldwide slowdown had occured. They figured they'd need them on such routes by then.

They obviously figured incorrectly... hence the current RFP. Rejection of the proposed A335 goes further to corroborate the point.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Shenzhen
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RE: The A340-500 Or A346 For QF

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:40 am

Why would Qantas want to introduce a new airplane type into the fleet? What is more common to a 747-400ER then a 747-400ER.

Now if Qantas did order a 777, there would be nothing odd about it. Qantas already operate a whole bunch of 747s and 767s, and I don't think the 747s are going anywhere any time soon.