flyboy80
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HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:35 am

Hey all, read the caption to this pic...

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Photo © Dion Fuchs


It says HNL has a "Reef Runway" My simple question is... whats this?
 
BA
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:38 am

It's pretty simple. It's a runway that is built ontop of a reef.

There wasn't much place else to build another runway in HNL, so they built a landfill in the sea ontop of a reef, then built the runway on top of it.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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HA_DC9
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:50 am

If I remember correctly, runway 8R aka reef runway is also used as an alternate landing site for the space shuttle. I think this is one of the reasons why it was built.
 
BA
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:55 am

HA_DC9,

I believe you are correct, I remember hearing something like that a couple years ago. Good point you brought up.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FrequentFlyKid
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:57 am

Is there a list of all the emergency runways that the Shuttle can use?
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:28 am

Runway 8R/26L.

Construction started in 1967 I believe...when my parents flew to HNL for their honeymoon in March 1968, it was still under construction.

Interesting about the space shuttle option...makes sense, but it was built a number of years before, and I don't know if it's long enough to handle the shuttle?

And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
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aloha73g
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:47 am

It is an alternate landing spot for the shuttle. It was built ontop of a reef from coral dug up from the area next to it....you may notice changes in the sea color where they dug up the coral. Rumor has it that this was part of the inspiration for Kansai Airport.

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Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
jsnww81
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:59 am

The reef runway was first conceived around 1960, and took a very long time to construct. I think it was finally opened to traffic in 1976. I doubt that such an environmentally sensitive project could EVER be constructed in Hawaii today - just look at the hell the environmentalists put the OGG runway extension through.

The original goal of the reef runway was to reduce jet noise over downtown Honolulu in the evenings. Prevailing winds mean that most departures are to the east - so all departures were routed straight over Sand Island, Kalihi and downtown Honolulu. The reef runway moves those departures south, over the ocean, although aircraft still make a gentle right turn shortly after takeoff.

Taxiing out to the reef runway takes FOREVER - sometimes almost 20 minutes between leaving the gate and actually turning onto the runway. Many of the interisland flights continue to use the 'old' runway 8L for takeoff, to shorten their taxi times. However, almost all the overseas departures use the reef runway.

At night, departures are usually on 8R (the reef runway), while 4R handles most arrivals. This means that aircraft on finals pass just a few hundred feet over the active departure runway before touching down. It makes for some interesting takeoff sequences!

I'd love to fly into HNL during Kona weather, and experience a landing from the opposite (26R/L) side, although I understand that happens only a few days a year...
 
ha763
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:52 pm

HNL's Reef Runway was the first runway built completely offshore. It was built mostly out of coral dredged up from Honolulu Harbor and opened in October 1977. Yes, it is an alternate landing site for the Space Shuttle.

It does take some time to get to the Reef Runway, but I've never really had a really long taxi to the runway. Most of the time, it is because you are waiting to cross 8L since that is the main arrival runway and also the main departure runway for interisland traffic. All the flights I have been on, the pilots book it, usually taxiing around 25-30 mph and getting to the Reef Runway in 10 minutes or less.
 
762er
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:10 pm

Jsnww81: They actually use 26L a lot more than a few days a year. When the Kona winds are in effect, which is probably 10% of the time, they'll land on 26L flying right by downtown honolulu and then making a sharp left turn onto short finals. Just about every time I've been to HNL (which is a lot) there are a couple days when they use 26L, especially in the winter. And, also, it's pretty rare that you'll see a landing on the reef runway's 8R. Most of the landings are on 8L and some on 4R in the evening and night hours.
 
haanz
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:48 pm

Took off from 8R in in June, on board NZ009, the night departure to AKL.

Amazing taxi out to the runway from the gate is all i can say, and it took almost 30 minutes!
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:55 pm

I flew with AA on a DC-10-30 in July '99 and we took off from the reef runway- 08R and i remember it took ages to taxi to the runway- at least 20 mins.
Regarding 08R being used as a space shuttle alternate now that would be a sight to see, imagine the shuttle on final approach at HNL!
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:18 pm

I had heard that the interisland flights preferred to take off and land on Runway 4R, while the larger aircraft took off on 8R, and landed on 8L.


So the 4R and 4L runways aren't used as much? Again, I'd heard most interisland flights used those two runways as much as possible, leaving the longer 8L and 8R for the larger aircraft.


Also are 22L and 22R ever used for landings? I imagine it'd be pretty difficult to approach over the Ko'olau range on backcourse. What about takeoffs from 22L and 22R?
 
ha763
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:16 pm

Actually, the interisland carriers mostly use 8R because it is the closest runway to the interisland and commuter terminal. In fact, the largest commercial aircraft allowed to regularly use the 8R/26L for takeoffs is the 757 only with clearance. 8L/R are the preferred runways for most traffic. 4R would require an extremely long taxi and crossing 2 runways for takeoff and landing.

4L/R is mainly used by GA, corporate aircraft, and cargo aircraft landings. No jet aircraft larger than a business jet can takeoff from 4L/R due to noise and the Ko'olaus. You can watch GA aircraft cross the airport from the north and make a 180 degree left turn to land on 4L/R.

22L/R is used by GA for takeoffs/landings during Kona winds. 22L is also used for takeoffs by large commercial aircraft as well. I've seen 747s takeoff from 22L. One of the most spectacular takeoffs I've seen was an ATA 757-300 which lifted off after only using half of 22L, which is 9000 ft. long.
 
Cessna172RG
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:42 pm

I took a vacation in Hawaii last year, and during that time, 26 was in use just as much as the 8's were. I was surprised when I saw this. One day, the 8's were in use. The next day it was the 26's. It almost alternated by day.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:59 pm

Military jet fighters use 8R for departures, and have arresting cables at the 26L end in case they have to abort take-off. 26L & 4R also has arresting cables as well. I have seen an HANG F-15 use the 4R cables because of some kind of malfunction.

8R is only used for emegency landings, since it is far from the main terminal. I have seen a Cessna 402 and a Sun Country DC-10 land there because of landing gear problems, with fire/rescue crews standing by.

I have also seen a USAF C-141B abort take-off on 22L, and roll to the very end.

Taxi times to 8R are shorter at night, when landing traffic is assigned to 4L & 4R.

Regarding the Space Shuttle: 8R has been named by NASA as an alternative emergency landing strip for the Shuttle fleet. There is barrier system set up to stop a Shuttle, and a beacon set up by NASA.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
T prop
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:13 pm

No jet aircraft larger than a business jet can takeoff from 4L/R

The day that an AC A340 left shrapnel on both 8R and L, the 4's were the only runways left. Saw a 757 take off from 4R.

Actually, the interisland carriers mostly use 8R because it is the closest runway to the interisland and commuter terminal.

You mean 8L?

T prop.
 
fritzi
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sat Nov 01, 2003 8:28 pm

"The day that an AC A340 left shrapnel on both 8R and L, the 4's were the only runways left"

How did the A340 leave shrapnel on two different runways???
 
rindt
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AC A340

Sat Nov 01, 2003 8:39 pm

Easy... blew a tire on rotation leaving debris on the departing runway, and upon arrival landed on the other runway with further debris from the tire going all over the place.


-Rob
What other people think of you is none of your business!
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:43 pm

Ha763:

the largest commercial aircraft allowed to regularly use the 8R/26L for takeoffs is the 757 only with clearance.

Do mean 8L right? Based on the other posts it sounds like most heavy aircraft use 8R/26L for their takeoffs. 8R/26L is the "reef runway".




So the ops at HNL are this:?

8R/26L for takeoffs of large jet aircraft
8L/26R for takeoffs of interisland aircraft (including HA and AQ), and landings of large jet aircraft

4L/22R for GA aircraft takeoffs and landings
4R for large jet landings/interisland landings?
22L for small aircraft landings


Interisland aircraft do land on 4R yes? But take off on 8L/26R? Would like to know this info, I am working on an AFCAD for HNL as a bonus in the Aloha Airlines addon.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:09 pm

Could someone tell me where the Island Air dash 8s park at HNL?
 
ha763
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:22 pm

Sorry, mixed up the runways. Most interisland traffic takeoff and land on 8L since it is the closest runway. And the largest commercial aircraft that can use 8L for takeoff is the 757. It takes special clearance for any larger commerical aircraft to use it. Most military traffic also use 8L again because it is the closest runway.

Island Air uses the Commuter Terminal, which is right next to the Interisland Terminal. As for the hanger, it is along Lagoon Drive.
 
je89_w
Crew
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:30 pm

The past two weeks have been Kona winds. Usually around December is when there will be more Kona weather. A CI B744 dangerously wove through buildings of Waikiki all the way to downtown Honolulu, where it landed on runway 26R, once upon a time.

Yes, 04R arrivals are usually at night, where larger commercial aircraft are concerned. Larger commercial aircraft occasionally arrive on 04R in the day. I wish I saw a large jet depart from 04R.

Have some shots of a JL B742 lifting off infront of the Island Air office . . . really early liftoff. Not too sure how long that is though.

I have seen 747s leave on 08L. Really rare. If I'm not mistaken, President Bush's plane left on runway 08L. I've seen F-15s leave 08L too.

I have seen a C-141 abort takeoff on runway 26L once. Saw an F-16 go around as it came way too close an Evergreen International B742 taking off.

The Dash 8s park north of the inter island terminal. That is also where the Pacific Wings Cessna Grand Caravans park too. Island Air has an office along Lagoon Drive . . . they park their Dash 8s there sometimes.

Will try to upload a shot of the AC A343 in HNL. The tires were already fixed when I shot her.
 
je89_w
Crew
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:35 pm

C-5s, C-141s, KC-10s etc. use 08R for takeoffs. So do the B747s parked at Hickam.

Saw a KC-10 arrive on runway 08R, taxied back to the west end, waited for a bunch of F-15s depart, and took off once more.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:53 pm

When 8R is closed for maintenance, all commercial & military air traffic takes off on 8L. I videotape weddings at a chapel close to the airport, and it is a sight to see a 747, DC-10, A340, or C-5 take off of 8L. The same applies to 26R when the wind shifts.

Of course, when 8L is closed for maintenance, the same goes for 8R. A Dash8 looks quite puny on 8R.

AirNav.com lists the days that each runway is closed for maintenance.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
QANTASforever
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:03 pm

Little bit of on-the-side trivia:

The construction of Sydney Airport's runway 34L was partially funded by NASA - with the intention that in the event of an emergency the space shuttle could land there.

I may be wrong, but I think it's the only alternate landing site for the shuttle in the southern hemisphere.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: HNL's "Reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:32 pm

"The past two weeks have been Kona winds. Usually around December is when there will be more Kona weather."

If any of you stay in a Waikiki hotel with an ocean view, you'll be able to watch arrivng traffic to either 26L & 26R. A scanner, tripod and a 200mm (at the least) will help. Arrivng traffic from Asia make their turn a little past Diamond Head, though they start coming in from 0530HST. What we call a "Kona wind approach", takes effect when the winds shift to 180-360 South-West-North heading.

Watching a flight of 4 HANG F-15s on final for 26L, cruise past Waikiki is pretty cool too.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
je89_w
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RE: HNL's "Reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:39 pm

A crazy sight it may have been . . . I once witnessed a cessna depart off runway 08R!  Nuts

Actually, anyone that faces the south shore can see traffic. I've once seen a JAL B743 turn from Japan (during Kona Winds) infront of Kaka'ako/Magic Island area. It was an unusually early turn.
 
ha763
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:47 pm

Kaka'ako/Magic Island is actually a good place to spot and take pictures during Kona weather. You have open space with no obstructions and the aircraft pass really close and low to the shoreline.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:00 pm

HA763, you are correct. Those are great spots to get 26 finals shots. Again a 200mm lens should do the trick. Aloha Tower Marketplace and Sand Island Park are other locales to consider. At least at ATM, you can dine and plane watch at the same time at certain restaurants.

For 26R shots, try Ke'ehi Park. There is a hill on the south end close to the beach, where you can get up close and personal with HA, AQ, and WP landing traffic.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
je89_w
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:28 pm

Around now (winter), the sun would shine in front of you, where all those spots are concerned. So that would mean during the summer, you'd get better shots. But the problem is how often does it turn Kona weather in the summer?
 
jsnww81
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:46 pm

I'd like to get out to HNL and see the Kona wind approaches... I've always landed from the Ewa side of the island on 8L. A nice approach, but flying over all those artillery bunkers near the West Loch gets old after awhile...

I've made three night landings (all from OGG) on 4R, which is very odd in a DC10 or L1011 when it's completely dark outside. It's only in the last minute or so of the approach that the lights of Honolulu come into view, and then you see the faint blue lights of the reef runway slide underneath right before touchdown.

Night takeoffs on the reef runway are fun too - if you're on the right side of the aircraft as it rotates, you can see the landing lights of inbound aircraft (approaching 4R) heading seemingly straight towards you, although they're still many miles out over the ocean...
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:02 pm

So landing activity on 4R usually only picks up during the evening hours?

 
Bluewave 707
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:40 pm

The reason being is that it cuts noise from the 8L approach over the developing Ewa (west) district, when everyone is at home.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
A330341
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:49 pm

I remember a few years ago when Garuda still operate CGK-HNL-LAX using MD-11, they take off using the reef runway.... the taxi from the gate seems takes ages but the views are great all the way to the runway and once you take off you can see the beautiful beach....
 
rockyracoon
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:27 pm

During my trip to hawaii, I got to use the reef runway 3 times. Take off and landing Aloha 737-200 HNL-LIH-HNL and take off AA DC-10-30 HNL-ORD. For the Aloha departure we didn't have any traffic ahead of us so it only took 10 mins at most. The American flight seemed like forever though, I'd give it 25 mins, must have been a line up for the evening departures. The take offs give you an awesome view of waiki and diamondhead, a great sight for your last glimpse of paradise.

Tim
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:51 pm

The one thing since 09-11, was that Lagoon Drive is now a restricted access area. Back in the good old days, you could drive to the end of Lagoon Dr, to the General Aviation Parking lot, and plane watch. We can all thank Mr. bin Laden for that one.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
windshear
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RE: HNL's "reef Runway?"

Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:16 am

BA you are one screwy person...What a profile...So devidded so angry while still amazed...??
Hope you sort out all of your problems...

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman

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