SBE727
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 10:38 pm

Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:36 am

HI THERE,

AN / ZGGG), China">CAN ANYONE TELL ME PLEASE IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO LEASE A TU-154 IN THE UK FOR A CHARTER FLYING PROGRAMME WITHIN EUROPE.

I KNOW THEY OP TO THE UK FOR FLIGHTS TO THEIR OWN COUNTRY BUT AN / ZGGG), China">CAN A UK COMPANY LEASE A TU-154 FOR FLIGHTS TO DEP UK TO HOLIDAY DESTINATIONS LIKE SPAIN,GREECE, CYPRUS ETC ETC.

IM NOT SURE WHAT THE RULES ARE FOR EUROPEAN CARRIERS WHO OPERATE THIS TYPE OF AIRCRAFT TO COME TO THE UK TO DO A FLYING PROGRAMME ON BEHALF OF A TOUR OPERATOR.

EXAMPLE:

LEASE A HEMUS AIR TU-154 OF BULGARIA TO BASE ITS A/C IN THE UK TO DO A SUMMER FLYING PROGRAMME TO HOLIDAY HOTSPOTS ON BEHALF OF A UK TOUR OP.

I KNOW THERE MAY BE COMPLICATIONS WITH WORK PERMITS ETC BUT COULD U NOT JUST DO AN ACMI ALL INC LEASE FOR THE ABOVE AND HAVE THE AIRLINES OWN FLT DECK AND SENIOR CREW MEMBER ON BOARD WITH UK BASED CREW (ENGLISH CREW).

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE TYPICAL ALL INC LEASE RATE WOULD BE FOR A TU-154.

HOPE THE ABOVE MAKES SENSE AND WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR REPLIES.


MANY THX IN ADV

SBE727
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:54 am

Armenian Airlines had to introduce a TU-154M about a year and a half ago to operate to their Euro destinations after having problems with the A310.

They were leasing it per flight hours and I think for $1000/hour.
That ain't too cheap. But it was a relatively new plane, built in the late 90s.

Why to lease a Tupolev when there are tons of cheap 737s and MD-80s? Who would provide the basic maintanance for such a plane?
 
SBE727
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 10:38 pm

RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:04 am

THX FOR YOUR REPLY,

I HAVE A PROJECT CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND WERE THINKING THAT A TU-154 WOULD HAVE BEEN FAR CHEAPER THAN SAY A 737. I DID WONDER ABOUT MAINTANENCE...ESPECIALLY BEING A RUSSIAN BUILT A/C...NOT MANY SPARES HERE IN THE UK I DONT THINK (IF ANY).

COULD SOMEONE MAYBE TELL ME WHAT THE TYPICAL ALL INC LEASE RATES ARE FOR THE FOLLOWING A/C PLEASE.

MD81/82/83
737-300/400
757-200
TU-154

THOSE ARE THE KIND OF A/C I WOULD BE THINKING ABOUT AS EXP PAX LOAD WOULD BE 150-200.

IM TRYING TO GET THE CHEAPEST TO BE HONEST....... ITS BASICALLY A BUMS ON SEATS AND OFF YOU GO TYPE OF OPERATION SO THE LOWER THE LEASE RATE...THE LOWER THE SEAT COST WLD BE.

MANY THX

SBE727
 
OD720
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:45 am

There was a thread here a few month's ago about cheap MD-80s. Maybe someone was saying that they were for $80k/month. I'm not too sure, you have to check it.
 
ben
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:59 am

I don't know if you would have any problems with the legal side, but in this country the law often comes second to "trial by media".

Don't underestimate the western prejudice against all things Russian, and particularly aviation.

Can you imagine the headlines in The Sun if you started flying passengers in a Tupolev? even if it was successful? even if it was a brand new aircraft? There is no shortage of trashy tabloids in the UK who would love to write headlines about that.

In the minds of the British public, a 30 year old flying junkyard 737-200 is infinitely more desirable than the newest, most hi-tech Tu-204 for instance. All because one is a "Boeing" and the other is a Russian piece of sh!t. (Of course it's not true and those are not my views, but that's what people really do think!)

Remember the Tu-154 / 757 mid-air collision a few years ago? The Tu-154 (delivered 1995) was actually 5 years younger than the 757 but the next day, every media outlet was reporting things like "outdated '60s Russian jet" and calling them "Russian cowboys of the air", "none or outdated collision avoidance systems" even though both were under ATC and both had new TCAS.

Best to get yourself an old Boeing, save yourself the hassle....
 
David_itl
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:18 am


Anyone (other than me!) who can remember the Globe Mediterranean fiasco back in 1991? They were a MAN based airline who lasted no more than a couple of months before they stopped flying; the tour operators who contracted them arranged to have Air Via base a Tu154 operating ex-MAN for the majority of the summer.

David
 
donder10
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:22 am

Wouldn't the issue of the type not being on the CAA register(or similar) play a role?It certainly did with Virgin's plan to pick up some ex SQ 743s.
 
Capital146
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:26 am

David_itl,
Yes, I remember the VIA TU-154 in 1991 based at MAN and flying to all the popular Mediterrenean destinations. What was the story with that going wrong? Negative press?
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:38 am

VIA 154s were around for a while. I remember the summer of `85 still had them all over the UK.

PS. Would the original poster please depress the CAPS LOCK key on his keboard. Cripes.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
User avatar
Crosswind
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:06 am

The VIA TU-154s were around, and still are, operating from and to Bulgaria, but they're not UK based or operating to countries other than Bulgaria.

The 1995 fiasco was a different aircraft.

A Yak-42 as I remember, but again based at Manchester. A broker had sold seats to various holiday companies, who though they were buying capacity on a GB leisure B737-200 that had been used the previous summer. The broker failed to secure the contract for said aircraft, and a Ukrainian Yak-42 was the only aircraft they could find to operate the contract. In an effort to make the aircraft look "normal" to passengers, the airline concerned repainted the aircraft with "Sunjet" titles. Doubt if it fooled the passengers.

There followed outcry from other UK airlines, widespread negative press coverage, upset, frightened passengers and furious tour operators.

Even though I thought there's no way there would be - there's even a photo of it in the database with Sunjet titles!!!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer


Anyone thinking about operating Russian aircraft in the UK passenger market would be unwise to try. No tour operator would knowingly buy capacity on such an aircraft and the CAA under pressure from UK airlines wouldn't allow it anyway. I beleive they only did in the above case because the broker concerned convinced them there was no other aircraft available, so it was either that or the passengers went nowhere.

Does the TU-154 even meet Stage III noise regulations???

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
OD720
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:17 pm

The TU-154M is does meet Stage III noise regulations but the older models like the B-1, B-2 series don't. There are a lot of these in the former Soviet Union and I believe they can be very cheap.

As I said earlier, the newer TU-154M might be a little expensive. This model was in production up until 2002 (2 were built or completed) and are operated by many airlines and frequently seen in FRA and HAJ.

Best regards.
 
airchabum
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:40 pm

The CAA/EC aren't too happy about bringing in non-EC a/c to be based in Europe especially if there is spare capacity available with European carriers. You may need to get non-objection letters from UK carriers (at least) before the CAA would let you use an Eastern Bloc a/c.

Incidentally, there are still 3 Virgin Sun A320's sitting in BOD which you could make a silly offer for, although you'd need to find your own crews.
Biggidy biggidy bong
 
backfire
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:07 pm

...every media outlet was reporting things like "outdated '60s Russian jet" and calling them "Russian cowboys of the air", "none or outdated collision avoidance systems"...


A little ironic, Ben. You can't complain about prejudice one minute and then make a sweeping prejudicial statement about "every media outlet" getting its facts wrong. It's that kind of uninformed opinion that creates unfair bias in the first place. Did you read the coverage from "every media outlet" or just the trashy tabloids?
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:56 pm

So why not the Il-96? Any availble for wet-lease? Sure a more modern airplane
than the Tu-154, but a bit more expensive?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
jmc757
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:28 pm

I think you'd be better to stick with a western aircraft anyway, for the reason of spares and maintenance if nothing else. Who would provide base maintenance??
The press is a dificult one. Yes they probably would kick up a fuss, but then they dont about the extensive programme balkan Holidays operate? Although I suppose they are not British. What crosswind said really sums it up... Stick with an old Boeing or MD Big thumbs up
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:28 pm

My understanding is (and I may be wrong) that aircraft operating regularly within the EU must be registered in an EU country (there are countries such as Iceland that are also OK). Anyway if this is the case, one thing is for sure - you won't get a TU154 on the UK register. I was involved at one point in looking into the possibility of getting a TU-204 onto the register and whilst this wasn't persued there were a number of obstacles, particularly as they have to CAA approved for airworthyness and the CAA seem not to be the biggest fans of CIS-built aircraft.
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
elwood64151
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:40 pm

To answer someone's question about the leasing price of an MD-80, I do remember that about a year and a half ago, some could be found for about $50K per month. That being said, with the market picking up, you may want to plan for $100K per month, then be pleasantly surprised when it comes out less.

I also have to agree with previous posts:

Thought the TU-154 is a fine aircraft, the press sees it as an out-dated piece of Soviet garbage (not helped much by our recent obliteration of Saddam's mostly Soviet-technology-equipped army--people draw parallels). Best to get an Airbus, Boeing, or MDD.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
SBE727
Posts: 384
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RE: Lease Of TU-154 IN The UK

Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:13 am

Many thx guys for your replies on this one.

Was very interesting to hear what people have to say about the tu-154 and say the md80's.

Can anyone tell me if MDAirlines are still operating.

I think all in all, although the tu-154 might work out cheaper in some circumstances....it could end up being more expensive (maintence,spares etc)

Once again...many thx for your posts and will digest accordingly.

sbe727