BN747
Topic Author
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PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:32 am

If this passes...welcome back to the good old days!!!
Thank f*n god!

'Airport wants airside terminal, mall open to public'

Saturday, November 01, 2003
By Mark Belko, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

Since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the public has been barred from the boarding
terminal at Pittsburgh International Airport, unable to greet or send off loved ones at
the gate, and prohibited from shopping at the award-winning collection of shops
and restaurants.

Now Allegheny County Airport Authority Executive Director Kent George is appealing
to local congressmen and Pennsylvania's two U.S. senators for help in lifting the
ban, which prevents people without tickets from going beyond the airport's security
checkpoint.

George said he is taking his case directly to elected officials because of growing
frustration over the lack of a response from the U.S. Transportation Security
Administration, which oversees security at the nation's airports.

George is pitching a pilot program that would allow people without tickets to visit the
boarding terminal, known as the Airside Building, during nonpeak times.

They would continue to be barred during the airport's heaviest travel periods.
Visitors would have to undergo the same security screening as ticketed
passengers.

"What we're talking about doing is opening up during nonpeak times the security
checkpoint and more fully utilize the checkpoint," he said. "If a line occurs, we will
immediately stop [permitting nonpassengers through] and wait until the lines are
taken care of."

George said that during a recent teleconference with airport operators, the TSA
indicated that it had no plans to lift restrictions preventing nonticketed visitors from
going beyond the security checkpoint, citing the loss of 6,000 security screener jobs
since spring.

TSA spokesman Mark Hatfield said yesterday the agency will give the authority's
request -- and any forthcoming from congressmen -- a "fair look" but pointed out the
TSA is working with fewer screeners.

"Our core mission is passenger screening. With the limited amount of resources,
we have to address that first. We don't have the additional capacity at Pittsburgh or
elsewhere to extend screening to nonticketed passengers," he said.

Hatfield said the TSA has fielded requests from other congressmen seeking to lift
restrictions at other airports but has not changed the policy so far.

George would like to have the restrictions lifted before the approaching holiday
season. Not only would that enable family and friends to greet or send off
passengers, he said, it would be a boost for Airmall merchants, who have lost
business because of the drop off in travel following Sept. 11 and cutbacks by US
Airways, the airport's dominant carrier.

"The decision is going to be based on our core mission, balanced with the available
resources," Hatfield responded. "It's not going to be linked to a calendar or a
holiday."

George sent the letter to U.S. Reps. Tim Murphy, R-Upper St. Clair; Melissa Hart,
R-Bradford Woods; Bill Shuster, R-Blair; Mike Doyle, D-Swissvale; and John Murtha,
D-Johnstown; and U.S. Sens. Arlen Specter and Rick Santorum.



Don't shoot the messenger!
BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Trvlr
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:50 am

Good for PIT! At least somebody in the aviation world realizes the benefits of non-ticketed passengers to an airport's bottom line.

Like I've said before, allowing non-ticketed passengers into the terminals is NOT a security issue. It is simply a passenger-flow issue. If PIT can handle non-ticketed passengers while simultaneously maintaining post-9/11 security procedures, then more power to them!

Aaron G.
 
DLX737200
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:53 am

Personally... and this is my opinion.... I have mixed emotions on this:

Pros:

-Greeting and Sending Off Family/Friends
-Spotters can see planes up close again without flying
-I can spend more time at the airport
-It'd be like the old days
-Show terrorists that we can move on and that they haven't affected us as much as they think they have.
-More business to shops and businesses that are past the security checkpoint

Cons:

-Less attention to Real Passengers flying that day
-More crowded lines
-Better chance for a Terrorist making it through
-TSA would become more lax

This is all I could come up with. Again these are just my opinions. Overall, I wish they would pass this. I REALLY MISS getting to go down to the gates here in Orlando. I use to do it every other weekend and look at planes. Now, like everyone else, I only go down there when I'm flying.  Sad

I Pray to God that they pass this but also pray that if they do, nothing bad will become of it! Amen.  Smile

-Justin
 
rockyracoon
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:16 am

God I hope they lift those restrictions, that'll be the day!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy For PIT I would think it wouldn't be such a problem, since they only have one checkpoint in the entire airport. Hell, they could make a seperate line for non ticketed passengers and close it when they didnt' have the man power or if it was a security issue.

Tim
 
BA
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:28 am

I don't think it's going to happen nor do I want it to happen.

As much as I loved just spending a day at the airport and watch planes, the fact remains is the rest of the world does not allow non-ticketted passengers past security, and for good reason.

Why overcrowd the airport for nothing? I understand Pittsburgh has a very special duty free area and that's great. But the fact is it's an airport. It's a place for people to catch flights.

I know we aviation buffs love watching planes and allowing non-ticketted passengers would make us all happy, but we have to be reasonable.

Less crowded airports mean it is easier to catch potential troublemakers or terrorists.

The rest of the world has ONLY allowed ticketed passengers passed security. It's about time the US followed.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
electraBob
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:30 am

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening at PIT or any other U.S. airport as long as the security threat condition remains at YELLOW (elevated). If the condition is some day lowered to BLUE (guarded), then maybe we can all get our hopes up. That's just my opinion.

I would love to be able to take a walk through the gate area of the new McNamara terminal at DTW. I was inside the terminal just this past Wednesday afternoon and the security check points had no one, and I mean no one in line. I'm just wondering that if the gate areas are some day opened to non ticketed passengers, how much input each individual airline would have in determining what is "peak" and "off peak." I'm sure each airline would have a different say on this matter.
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
expressjetphx
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:31 am

I say do this for all airports, but open a single metal detector/x-ray only for non-ticketed passengers so that the line for ticketed passengers doesnt slow down.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:42 am

Doesn't happen anywhere else in the world, and should never happen in the USA again.

"Officials" in Pittsburgh appear to place commercial issues above security issues, and most of the respondents to this thread appear to take the same line.

On thing to think about which is maybe not such an issue in Pittsburgh, but could be in other US cities. Most International airlines audit all their stations, and one thing they will pay careful attention to is the security of their aircraft. They may take exception to the increased risk caused by having extra non-travelling passengers in the concoursces where they could possibly gain access to their aircraft. And these companies have more influence with airport authorities than spotters who want to be able to "see planes up close again without flying"

While to the USA the current situation is "abnormal" to everyone else it's a basic security measure.
 
Matt D
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:41 am

Why don't we solve all of these so-called "security risks" once and for all by simply grounding ALL planes permanently, and reverting back to trains and covered wagons?

Give me a friggin' break.  Insane

I support this proposition 200%. It worked fine before. It could be worked out just fine now, there are numerous possbilities ranging from having separate lines to charging small "cover charges".

Just because the rest of the world "does it", doesn't mean that we have to.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:06 am

It's good to know that somebody is at least looking at the option of opening gate areas back to the public. It seems like things are getting a little more streamlined at the checkpoints at many airports and I could see it working out. It would definitely be a boost to the merchants and airport authorities that take in some of those sales too. Another good thing is that checkpoints might run a little better when you take out the line doing boarding pass/ID checks. Of course the risks should be considered too and it might work better to experiment with different airports to see the results.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
bistro1200
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Pub

Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:14 am

This kind of thinking is what one would call 'complacency'. You can assess the value of this by asking one question: Does this policy make it easier for banned items to get into sterile areas? Yes.

Other than airline and airport staff, there is simply no NEED for non passengers to be in the airport. It is not a mall, it is not a club, or an entertainment complex. Terrorists will use any weakness in the system to penetrate our defenses. Creating new weaknesses is not going to help anyone. How? Their names will not be verified against the FBI do-not-fly list, nor can they be profiled before crossing into the sterile airside of the airport.

BTW, I am a certified member of the AAAE.
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:22 am

It worked fine before

Is this the same airline security system that allowed the September 11th terrorists onto aircraft?
Yes, let's go back to that system. While those involved were passengers, they were allowed through a security system that was all about maximising passenger throughput at security checkpoints with the minimum checks and hassle for passengers. They had to handle a large volume of people who had no real reson to go airside, and try not to cause delays to passengers who had flights to catch.

Security is about minimising risks. That means you allow only those who have to go through security through, and with thorough checks.

For what good reason does anyone not flying need airside access?

You want to meet or say goodbye to someone?
Do it in the checkin hall/arrival hall

You wan to eat/shop?
If you're travelling do it at the airport because that's what the facilities are for, if you're not travelling there are thousands of businesses accross the country not located in secure areas that will be happy to accept your business.

Checkpoints might run a little better when you take out the line doing boarding pass/ID checks

Great! Let's remove another layer of security protection.
 
ntspelich
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:32 am

For what good reason does anyone not flying need airside access?

You want to meet or say goodbye to someone?
Do it in the checkin hall/arrival hall


At PIT it's purely a financial one. The SkyMall isn't doing too well since access to it has been restricted to airport employees and passengers. And, since it's pretty much PIT's claim to fame they want to try to keep it alive.

Really, I think that there was a separate security lane it wouldn't be a big deal. Going through security is going through security. Why don't we start screening cargo, because I think the US has proven that it is capable of adequately screening people, despite the very public slip-throughs.


NS
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
767Lover
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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:55 am

I have mixed feelings on this -- not for security reasons but for traffic flow. in ATL during peak times, the security checkpoint is backed up a pretty long way as it is. Add one or two extra people per passenger to the flow and...jeez, I can't imagine how long the line and wait would be. And now we're entering cold weather and holiday season, which delays security checks even further because everyone has to remove their coats, people carry gifts, etc.

So, while I LOVE hanging out at the airport and watching the planes and people, I would absolutely hate being a traveler in this scenario.
 
goboeing
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:09 am

It's about time they start doing stuff like this. I don't really care about whatever security measures the TSA might do to make the flying public feel safer. They can put whoever they want under the illusion that everything they do is truly safer, but I'm tired of having things taken away "in the name of safety." If you're so concerned that you think your flight is going to be hijacked, bombed, etc. by a terrorist after what has already happened, then I'm not sure you deserve to sit on the plane. Take a chance.

Nick
 
Iflewrepublic
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:09 am

Just my two cents worth...

As a crewmember, I appreciate the fact that not every whack-o can get right up to the jet way at the airports. Of course, I do know that anyone who wants to sabotage an airliner will do it no matter what.

As a member of the flying public, I enjoy not having every sentimental family member in the boarding area. Leaving the aircraft always took forever when family members had to be standing right in the jetway door waiting for their loved ones.

My opinion...Leave everything the way that it is.

Iflewrepublic
Aviation is proof that, given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
727LOVER
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:10 am

Is this the same airline security system that allowed the September 11th terrorists onto aircraft?
Yes, let's go back to that system. While those involved were passengers, they were allowed through a security system that was all about maximising passenger throughput at security checkpoints with the minimum checks and hassle for passengers. They had to handle a large volume of people who had no real reson to go airside, and try not to cause delays to passengers who had flights to catch.


HA!!!!! I GOT YOU THERE!!!!!!

Non pax were not allowed thru BOS security BEFORE 9-11. Same for UA concousre at EWR. Only at IAD for AA.

So, 3 of the 4 hijacked planes had NO extra large volume of non-pax. You just blew that argument!  Insane
Love Trumps Hate
 
airbazar
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:18 am

It will never happen. At least not in the foreseeable future. I know this is hard to envision, but airports will have to change and adapt, even if it means rebuilding.
 
COSPN
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:46 am

Airports are Airports...

Shopping malls are for the public..for that reason..TSA has no business wasting their time to screen non-PAX..

 
jcs17
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Pub

Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:08 pm

Unless PIT checks IDs against boarding passes at the gate, I would not feel safe if this was to happen.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
copaair737
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:47 pm

Instead of having one giant airport screening area, they should have individual screening areas at each of the gates. For example, have a screening area at gate A-1, and one at A-2, and so on. The waiting area to board the flight would be screened, and then have screening times coincide with boarding times.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
cs03
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:59 pm

As Cospn remarks that TSA people would waste their time with non PAX in the terminals, guess who would pay for that, so that airports like PIT could make more money? WE Would pay for it! How fair is that?
 
Matt D
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:03 pm

How fair is that?

I know this is not really related to the topic at hand, but the example will illustrate my point:

Do you think it's fair that a large chunk of your tax $$$ goes to pay for multi-generational Welfare recipients who have never worked a day in their life?

Why should YOU have to pay for THEM?

Yet we do it, and few seem to mind-or at least bother to say anything about it.

[Edited 2003-11-02 05:06:15]
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:06 pm

I seriously doubt that any government program catered to helping down and out citizens can be compared to spending extra money so a soccer mom can shop at the local PIT Sharper Image or so mom and dad can hold a sign up welcoming junior home at the gate instead of at baggage claim.

You are comparing apples to oranges!

[Edited 2003-11-02 06:08:43]
 
Trvlr
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:41 pm

How about the U.S. government levies a 300% tax on all airfares, effective immediately? That'll thin out the crowds at airports even more, and make it even easier for us to catch the terrorists!

Gosh, talk about complacency! If we're relying on less people in the airports to catch potential terrorists, then I shudder to think how the TSA handles actual security procedures (which, contrary to popular belief, are what really prevent terrorist incidents).

Again, this is not a depth-of-security issue. This is a TRAFFIC FLOW issue. I obviously don't think non-ticketed pax should be allowed back in the airports, effective tomorrow. I believe that if an airport has stringent security measures AND can handle the volume, then there is no reason why non-ticketed people should be barred from the inside of the terminal. It's good for the airport, it's good for the traveler!

Aaron G.
 
j_hallgren
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:10 pm

The issue of this topic was NOT allowing non-pax at ALL airports, just PIT! And is due strictly to the particular structure/layout of THAT facility, which was built as a combination airport AND shopping mall!

I have been there a handful of times and thought I was in a true mall, not just typical airport shops...so I can understand why they want this...

Maybe they (merchants) could pay a fee to TSA to provide additional screeners on separate lines to handle the non-pax who desire to use the mall portion...

If this was about other airports or desire of family members/greeters, some of the comments are perfectly appropriate but this is about access for customers to businesses that are having trouble because limits are placed on who can get to the merchants.
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
L-188
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:51 pm

I hope PIT the best of luck, but knowing the arrogent A-holes running TSA, I doubt anything will happen.

Isn't it amazing, with a better trained and paid workforce, TSA can't do the job as well as airlines used to be able to.

One thing that has never been disputed, is that not a single prohibitied item was every brough on board those aircraft by the 9/11 terrorists.

Why would an airline screener prohibit a legal item from boarding.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ssides
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:52 pm

This won't happen, nor should it.

Many airports are doing just fine with only passengers behind the security checkpoints. DFW, DCA, IAH, AUS, and many others -- all with significant shopping behind security -- continue to do well. PIT simply needs to attract more passengers to its gates, not try to mess with TSA's procedures.

The current policy is good for several reasons:

1) Lines are shorter and the screening process more efficient;
2) Concourses aren't jam-packed with both passengers and non-passengers;
3) TSA can save taxpayer money by utilizing less screeners at the checkpoints;
4) TSA screeners can focus 100% on passengers without worrying about non-fliers.

I believe the last two points are crucial. TSA's mission should be to screen airline passengers, not their mothers, fathers, grandmas and boyfriends. Allowing non-passengers through security simply wastes their time and the time of other passengers. Today, their mandate is much larger. People haven't noticed much due to the non-passenger policy, but it does take much longer to individually clear security now, with shoe screenings, laptop removal, etc. Can you imagine how much time would be wasted if every non-passenger had to remove his/her shoes going through security? This wasted time could make it easier for a real passenger security risk to slip past the screeners -- nobody wants that.

The security risk of having non-passengers past the checkpoints does not lie with those non-passengers, it lies in the risk that their presence in the security lines would distract screeners from their mission -- to screen airline passengers for security risks.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:18 pm

Kent George you're my Heeero. FINALLY, An Airport Executive with sense. Maybe he is doing it for us spotters but uses the shopping mall as an excuse. (even though that is doing poorly as well). I wish GPT wasn't such Hard Ass.
Puhdiddle
 
frntman
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:29 pm

As others have indicated in earlier posts, this whole issue is about $$$$$$. The Airmall and other merchants aren't doing too well, so they need to get more people through the checkpoint. If the TSA decides to set this precedence by establishing an exception to their own security directive, then other airports will soon be on the bandwagon.

The fact remains. Even if people walk through the checkpoint naked with no bags, you'll never have a 100% secure area. The checkpoint is nothing more than a visual deterrent. If someone wanted to get a prohibited item into the secured area, they will do it. There are vulnerabilities throughout the overall security system, the checkpoint is just one of them.

 
bwc1976
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Pub

Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:17 am

When I was visiting Australia in July 2002, non-passengers were allowed airside. I seem to remember hearing they only just changed this in the last few months. So it's not a matter of the U.S. vs. the whole rest of the world.
 
dsuairptman
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:40 am

This is outstanding news!!!

Many thanks to those at PIT trying to make this reality.

Its about time someone steped in to take care of this problem that the arrogant people running TSA swept under the rug.

Non-ticket persons have as much right to airside access as ticketed travelers
espically if they are the taxpayers whose funds go to help build and run airports.

TSA has very good security at checkpoints and I don't think longer lines will hender there efforts to weed out supicious people. The are well trained and versed in this task. Another plus is that non ticketed persons only bring themselves to the airport, so the wouldn't have baggae or other items being carried off their bodies, which seriously lessens the chance of any wrong doing going on.

To say that terriorist attacks could occur form this, in my opion, is mute, people behind that therory do not need to be so parnoid. If someone is carrying something that is prohibited, 90% of the time the will be caught, plus TSA and police security throughout airside areas would mean more eyes watching for supicous acitvity, this can be helped by moinitored video cameras and trained airport and airline employees to be on the lookout for such items.

God, I hope this come to be, cause its freakin time! We've they non ticket aviation entusaits have finally been heard and people in the higher ranks are finally heading our cause!
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:00 am

Why do people in PIT need to go to the airport to go shopping? Don't they have malls in Pittsburgh? The only reason PIT needs this is because US has pulled down so many flights and there are fewer passengers to shop at the mall. If the PIT airport authority and US could get their act together, they wouldn't need shoppers from the outside.

The TSA cannot handle the current load of ticketed passengers. Until the TSA can effectively screen ticketed passengers, there's no way you can allow non-ticketed passengers. Especially just so some people can go shopping or plane spotting.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:55 am

I think it should go back to being up to the airport. LGA, BOS, and parts of EWR (along with a few others, probably) did NOT allow people throuh security without a tcket pre 9/11. If we go back to that, at least there is a chance that we'd be allowed back. I'm sure a lot of airports would NOT allow people beyond security without a ticket.

This is just one step in a process that will take years. Didn't this same thing happen during the Gluf War?

I encourage you to write your congressmen with these comments, positive or negative. I know they will love to hear from you. They use YOUR feedback in votes. Belive it or not, many congress(wo)men vote based on their population rather than their political opinion.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
jjbiv
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:53 am

Let non-pax pay the $2.50 AY fee and go through the checkpoint. That should make everyone happy.

joe
 
bistro1200
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:13 am

Thanx Jjbiv. I was about to recommend that non-pax pay the PFC ($3 or $4), and upon first pirchase the shop can pay for it instead. Or, have the shops pay the PFC for non-passengers since they are using non-aviation functions of the airport. Point is, that the costs to screen these additional passengers has to be paid by someone, and I can guarantee that the airlines won't pay for that.

I also believe that the airlines should have the power to vote on this proposal, since they are the ones that would feel the pain in the case of a prohibited item brought onboard one of their flights. However, I am willing to bet that many airlines want to open their clubs up to those not flying, which would add value to those facilities.

The issue is with freeriding, having passengers and airlines pay for the costs of screening non-users. The costs of screening have to be paid, it is just the question of the individual shops, shoppers, or a combination.
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
ntspelich
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RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:17 am

However, I am willing to bet that many airlines want to open their clubs up to those not flying, which would add value to those facilities

They already are, at least US's are:

TSA Restricts Security Checkpoint Access for Club Members - The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) restricts access to the security checkpoint for non-traveling Club Members. To access the security checkpoint with a gate pass, contact the individual Club directly. Club members must have a scheduled meeting in the Club, Business Center or conference room

NS
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
flyinghighboy
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RE

Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:22 am

Let's have a look, all the terroists that have passed through security, hmm wait they are pax that have tickets. Kinda defeats the purpose of all this security in not allowing non pax to the gate. It's not like they are going to go on the plane??

I think that PIT should go ahead and open up if they want to.
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:30 am

just wat to clairfy:
according to the TSA:
Access is limited to:

Passengers with:

Boarding Pass
Ticket
Ticket confirmation

Persons with parental, official, medical, business, or similar reasons with:

Gate pass or other authorization issued by the airline

Employees with:

Valid ID
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4114
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:18 am

People are taking this the wrong way. This is about PIT...could it be other airports? Sure. Here is how I see it...

All non-pax into the airside terminal, no problem. However, move the security check points to the individual concourses. Simply construct walkways between them to allow passengers to connect without having to be rescreened (unless there is no other way). This will get the people to the SkyMall area, but keep them out of the gate areas.

PIT could easily be used as a test bed for allowing non-pax back into the terminal area - just not the gate area. If it works...great, step 2.

The next step would be to setup seperate security lines for non-pax (unless it is REALLY slow). The question is, what about the costs? Easy. Setup kiosks like those used for e-ticket pax. Require people to purchase an "admission" ticket if you will...the cost of which would cover the security costs for handling that person. These kiosks would require the use of US-based credit cards (as well as swipping their drivers license - provided that state has the newer credit card style) and can allow for an immediate check against various risk lists. If they come away perfectly clean...they get a ticket that they can take to the check point to be checked against an ID. If they show up on a list, they'll be a selectee or completely denied the ability to enter.

If it all works without too many headaches, it can be spread around to other cities that CHOOSE to do it. Meaning, if airports like JFK, ATL, etc...which are just extremely too busy...then they can maintain their current restrictions.

A system can be developed that works...and it can be one to help offset security costs for those of us that fly when we go to an airport.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:28 am

I think that's quite possible, Ouboy, considering PIT's layout. Place the "admission" tickets into the entrance to the Core, then limit access to the A-D Terminals. You wouldn't have access to ALL of the Airmall shops at PIT, since some of those are located in the various terminals, but to a good many of them.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:11 am

I definately think the pros outweigh the cons in this matter.. I didn't see this one..

PRO-

Every person is an extra pair of eyes in case something odd is going on..



It's about damn time someone realized this..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1238
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:03 am

An airport (or airline) can block all the non-ticketed passengers it wants, however, Mr. Evil Intentions will still get through with a paid ticket. It's that simple.

The question in hand is the logistics involved, as several people mentioned. There will be great costs in purchasing more magnetometers and x-ray bag machines, in addition to remodeling the security areas, if its even physically possible (i.e. widening the areas in order to accomodate the additional equipment etc.). There are no qualms about hiring additional people (and training them rigorously I might add), as Thousands Standing Around did a phenomenal job at that.


Other than airline and airport staff, there is simply no NEED for non passengers to be in the airport.

I disagree, having meeters-and-greeters who will see their families go on a trip at the gate area adds a sentimental value. That, indeed, is a need, abeit a psychological one. The feeling is not the same when these same people drop off loved ones at the curbside.

I also believe that the airlines should have the power to vote on this proposal, since they are the ones that would feel the pain in the case of a prohibited item brought onboard one of their flights.

I don't see how an airline would be affected by the proposal, provided if the airport has the proper equipment necessary to handle the non-ticketed crowd. This proposal, if I read correctly, includes provisions for providing additional security stations at the security checkpoints. If a prohibited item got on an aircraft, it would have gone on the aircraft courtesy of a fare-paying passenger. I think bringing additional security would bring the statistic down to an equilibrium.

Now, I would agree on the part that if the airport did not increase the number of security stations, the security personnel may feel rushed, thus, there is a possibility that the prohibited items may get through.


[Edited 2003-11-03 02:12:59]
 
high_flyr69
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 6:19 am

RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:24 am

Gidday to all,
well if yer all want to be able to wonder freely amongst the terminals and not be restricted in where you can roam well come on down to melbourne or any other Australian airport for that matter. At Melbourne only the international terminal is blocked off to non ticket holders but if your shifty you can get through to a certain point. I think Airport security is going a bit overboard in the USA especially in cases like this. Good luck with the PIT proposal and i hope all turns around to the usual in the near future.
cheers
high_flyr73
PS hint for melbourne cup horse race -- Pentastic
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice Doggy' until you find the shot gun
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: PIT Wants Terminal Open To Non-Tkt Holding Public

Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:47 am

The next step would be to setup seperate security lines for non-pax (unless it is REALLY slow). The question is, what about the costs? Easy. Setup kiosks like those used for e-ticket pax. Require people to purchase an "admission" ticket if you will...the cost of which would cover the security costs for handling that person. These kiosks would require the use of US-based credit cards (as well as swipping their drivers license - provided that state has the newer credit card style) and can allow for an immediate check against various risk lists. If they come away perfectly clean...they get a ticket that they can take to the check point to be checked against an ID. If they show up on a list, they'll be a selectee or completely denied the ability to enter.

I was about to post basically this same idea. I think it's a good idea and should be implemented. A system like this would add revenue for security programs while not compromising security. (i.e. the admission ticket purchased through a kiosk would be subject to the same scrutiny as if you had bought a real airline ticket).
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.