Shamrock1Heavy
Topic Author
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 8:46 am

Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:14 am

Today on flight explorer around 14:12 PST. I noticed DLH 454, from Edmonton,Canada to SFO...a little strange no?....Anyone know anything, possible diversion.

Thanks

-D
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Big777jet
Posts: 2682
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:27 am

Fboweb.com shows that:

FlightID: DLH454 (Commercial, Jet)
Status: DEPARTED, ENROUTE
Company: DEUTSCHE LUFTHANSA, A.G.
Country: GERMANY
Radio Call: LUFTHANSA
Ground Spd: 270 kts (Assigned: 0506)
Altitude: 086C(hundreds of feet) (Assigned: 390)
Type: B744 (Boeing Company Model 747-400)
Origin Apt: CYEG EDMONTON INTL
Dest Apt: SFO SAN FRANCISCO INTERNATIONAL
Departed: 2006Z ETA: 2151Z


I don't know why the plane stops in Edmonton. It could be not enough fuel due high headwind or some reason technical stop.


Big777jet


 
yx717pusher
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:08 pm

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:41 am

I checked their schedule and it is normally a non-stop flight FRA-SFO... good guess that it is because of headwinds. Extremely strong sw to ne jetstream. Bigjets info shows that it is a 747-400, and that should be able to accomodate non-stop even with the winds, but the schedule shows it as a 747-classic. Who knows what other possible factors could be at play.
 
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legacyins
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:47 am

The LH aircraft is a 747-400. It is scheduled to arrive at SFO at 1500. No word why it diverted.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2283
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:52 am

The flight landed at SFO at 0227 PM local!


[Edited 2003-11-01 23:53:22]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:53 am

Hmmm, UA website only shows this, no reason or something....

Flight 8829
Operated as DEUTSCHE LUFTHANSA AG
ARRIVED
Details Frankfurt, Germany (FRA)
Sat, Nov 1
Scheduled: 10:10 AM
Actual: 11:26 AM
Edmonton, (YEG)
Sat, Nov 1
Scheduled: 12:00 PM
Actual: 12:00 PM


Flight 8829
Operated as DEUTSCHE LUFTHANSA AG
ARRIVED
Details Edmonton, (YEG)
Sat, Nov 1
Scheduled: 12:45 PM
Actual: 1:04 PM
San Francisco, CA (SFO)
Sun, Nov 2
Scheduled: 3:00 PM
Actual: 2:30 PM
 
ZSSNC
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:33 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:00 pm

Sounds like the aircraft might have been on a reclearance flight plan. Is it normal for LH to file reclearance flight plans though?

ZSSNC
Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
 
AR385
Posts: 6735
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:24 pm

ZSSNC

What's a reclearence flight plan?

AR385
 
BO__einG
Posts: 2646
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 5:20 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:09 pm

Most likely a medical diversion or an alarm involving some kind of possble security threat to the aircraft or crews.

YEG gets a couple non-scheduled stops each month and since DLH has a number of flights right over the Edmonton ARTCC daily, it makes total sense.
They even stopped at YYC one time.
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Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:34 am

According to my info, the flight was scheduled to go to Edmonton on Saturday November 1st. It does not show up as a diversion but as a scheduled flight. P.S. - sorry if it is a bit difficult reading...I dont konw why the info does not want to post the way I pasted it.

DOLH454/01NOV
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * LH 454 -2 SA 01NOV
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
FRA ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 1050
LEFT THE GATE 1103
TOOK OFF 1126
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1249 SA - California">SFO
YEG AIRCRAFT LANDED 1156
ARRIVED 1200
LEFT THE GATE 1252
TOOK OFF 1304
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1419 SA - California">SFO
SA - California">SFO AIRCRAFT LANDED 1424
ARRIVED 1430

* 1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO * LH 454 -2 SA 01NOV ASM
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
FRA 1010 SA FACDZYBMHQV/M 744 9:50
WS/M
YEG 1200 SA 1245 SA FACDZYBMHQV/M 0:45 3:15
WS/M
SA - California">SFO 1500 SA 13:50
Visca Barça!!
 
ZSSNC
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:33 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:12 am

Ar385,

well, I will attempt an explanation of what exactly a reclearance flight plan is. Unfortunately I am missing a couple of proper English words for my explanation.

Sometimes you (as a flight planner) are in the situation that with the offered payload you wouldn't be able to make it nonstop to your destination without exceeding the maximum takeoff weight. Well, then you can either leave payload behind or file a reclearance flight plan.

1. First a "normal" flight plan to the intended destination is filed with the maximum allowed takeoff weight.
2. Then is determined how much payload would have to be left behind if you actually load the "required" fuel to your intended destination. If the payload which would have to be left behind is less than your required contingency fuel (5 % of the trip fuel) you can file the flight plan as reclearance flight plan.
3. Then you file a "normal" flight plan to a destination enroute (called the reclearance destination) to which you would be able to carry the extra payload without exceeding your maximum allowed takeoff weight. Enroute to both the intended destination and the reclearance destination you have to file a reclearance point which should be at about 90 % of the distance between your origin and intended destination.
4. If you still have some contingency fuel left once you actually reach the reclearance point, you may use the remaining fuel for the trip to your intended destination, if the following is true:

you still have the required trip fuel from the reclearance point to the intended destination aboard
+ 5 % contingency fuel
+ enough fuel to your alternate destination (in case of bad weather or similar at your destination)
+ the required holding fuel

If this is not the case, you have to fly to your reclearance destination.

Example:

For the flight FBA001 from EDDF to KORD following fuel requirements are determined:
trip fuel: 100000 EDDF-KORD
contingency fuel: 5000
alternate fuel: 3000 KORD-KMKE
holding fuel: 2000
takeoff fuel: 110000

If you have a maximum allowed fuel quantity of 107500 you would have to leave 2500 payload behind which is less than the contingency fuel (5000) and thus you may file a reclearance flight plan.

Lets assume you chose CYUL as a reclearance destination with CYMX being the alternate for that reclearance destination and file a flight plan:

trip fuel: 90000 EDDF-CYUL
contingency fuel: 4500
alternate fuel: 2500 CYUL-CYMX
holding fuel: 2000
takeoff fuel: 99000

Lets assume that the reclearance point is BAFIT and lets assume that we found out in the filed flight plan from EDDF-KORD that 85000 fuel is necessary to get to BAFIT.

From BAFIT to KORD you determine the following figures:

trip fuel: 15000 BAFIT-KORD
contingency fuel: 750
alternate fuel: 3000 KORD-KMKE
holding fuel: 2000
total: 20750

Assuming that FBA001 will not use more than 85000 to BAFIT and that at BAFIT at least 20750 will be required to continue to KORD your minimum take-off fuel - when filing a reclearance flight plan - is 85000 + 20750 = 105750. As we have learned we can load a maximum of 107500 fuel so it is safe to file a reclearance flight plan.

Well, that's it. Actually I thought it would be a bit easier to explain a reclearance flight plan... Hope you at least understand basically what it is all about.

ZSSNC
Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
 
Leskova
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:30 am

Iberia340600 - as you can see in the line

ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1249 SFO

(just below the "TOOK OFF 1126" in the 7th line) of this Amadeus-output, the flight was originally scheduled as nonstop to SFO and was, for whatever reason, diverted to YEG. Otherwise, that line would have read

ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 1249 YEG

(obviously with some other time mentioned).
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:13 am

Leskova:

Good point...but...I went back and checked on the info and if you look at the PLANNED flight info...the scheduled times are as follows:

ARR DEP
FRA 1010
YEG 1200 1245
SFO 1500

In my opinion they may have inputed the arrival city incorrectly. How could the ETA to SFO have been 1249 when the STA is 1500? Maybe it was just a scheduled flight for that day. Dunno...looks wierd to me.
Visca Barça!!
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Lufthansa 454 Diversion?

Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:23 pm

Iberia 340600, I guess they put that in there when it became clear that the plane would be diverting - I know, sounds a bit like a longshot, especially when you consider the precise timing of 12:00 until 12:45, but: about a week ago a LH flight from FRA to ORD was diverted to, if I remember correctly, MAN - and that was displayed identically in the DO-Display, as if it had been a planned stop in MAN.

I'd say that the ETA of 1249 in SFO results from the fact that the plane is usually scheduled to arrive at 1230.

But I'll definitively agree with you - the way they display it in the DO-Display does look strange, as if the whole thing indeed was planned in advance...

But, considering the fact that LH455 from SFO to FRA on 01NOV was supposed to leave - according to DOLH455/01NOV - at 14:30, but didn't make it out of SFO until 16:30, I'd say it really was a diversion to YEG.
Smile - it confuses people!