Thrust
Topic Author
Posts: 2584
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STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:51 am

Well, it's now official. The moment we've all been waiting for...has happened. Three days ago American ceased serving 26 routes from STL. Last Wednesday, I flew STL-BWI. As I looked out the window at the many AA planes occupying the STL gates, I thought to myself, "This is the last time for a while that STL will be this busy...." (That was October 28th, three days before the cuts). As one AA 767 took off for London before our AA MD80, another landed from Los Angeles or Hawaii. When I returned to STL yesterday from BWI, I definently saw the effects of the cuts...About half as many AA planes were there as before (no 767s anymore). When do should we expect all of these empty gates at STL to be filled, and which airline, if any, should we expect to fill these gates?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:17 am

Thrust, just wondering but how many AA mainline planes did you see at the gates? Just curious....
Addressing the gate situation, C will still be full to my knowledge with the mainline flights and the RJ flights. B will take all the props. D will be unoccupied, and there is talk going around the airport that they would like to remodel it and make it just like the E concourse and when it is done move all the A airlines over there. Just kind of a funny rumor I heard awhile ago right after the cuts. That is the only news I have to offer on D. I would assume for the time being that they will place all airlines in A like they did F9 (gate A-10). A8 is still unused and used to be an AA gate, and I would assume that FL would be a canidate for that gate. After that all gates would be filled and I'm sure we could put some in E.
Airlines that you could expect to come in include AirTran, JetBlue, and an increased WN presence. Besides that, you are hoping for longshots, such as AS, LH, AM, NK, TZ. Big thumbs up

[Edited 2003-11-03 23:26:30]
 
pilotpip
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:37 am

Yeah, the terminal is in need of a major revamp. The new East terminal is really nice. The only thing I hope they keep if they do remodel is the original green-roofed part.

On a side note, I saw Frontier's A318 for the first time and that is the funniest looking plane I've ever seen. It looks like somebody forgot half of the A320! I'm glad to see some variety but those baby-busses are really funny looking.
DMI
 
elwood64151
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:03 am

Pilotpip:

Gotta' agree with you on that. I've seen pictures, and wow! They really do look like they're missing a fuselage segment or two. I can't help but think that they look like a cartoon or a kid's toy...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:57 am

Yea, it is indeed sad. I work for a construction company working on Twy Alpha and Sierra, and also worked for the airport authority for almost six years as well. I couldn't believe how quiet it was out there today. The last time it was that quiet was on 9/12/2001 and 9/13/2001, Hopefully, more airlines will filter in soon. I saw the Frontier for the first time today as well.

Of course, there is my fantasy option. Buy the entire "C" concourse, level it, extend it out to the "Hotel" inbound line and start up a TWA "2"! Complete with 747's, 777's, 757's, (yes! I said 757's!!  Laugh out loud ) 737's and Embraer 170/190's. Might as well take over "B" concourse too. What the hell, right?
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:17 am

I am assuming as well that since STL routes have been dramatically slashed, the fate of TWA aircraft flying for AA is sealed. The ex-TWA 757s have PW engines as opposed to the Rolls-Royce-powered ones originally delivered to American. It is too expensive to retrofit them with RR engines, and so I believe after the F-100s are gone, the ex-TWA aircraft are next.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:13 pm

Thrust, maybe you didn't see my first post but I'd just like to know how many mainline A/C you saw at the gates. Estimate if you want. Thanks. Big thumbs up
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:34 pm

At least there is something going on in STL. RDU Terminal C is a ghost town compared to its past with exception to Eagle, a couple of F-100's, one B737-800 and the B777/LGW.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
N960AS
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 3:46 am

RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:07 pm

I go to school in St. Louis and I was outside for a while today and I noticed it was a lot quieter today. While there aren't a ton of planes flying over campus in the past there have been steady streams of AA MD80s...today all I seemed to see (although I wasn't paying that much attention) were ERJs and one 757.

I flew to Chicago/ORD two weekends ago (10/24) and I too thought that STL will be rather quiet soon. I'm flying home to Los Angeles in three weeks and I'm sure it will be weird seeing the D gates closed off. I'm going via DFW now because AA reduced STL-LAX from 6 daily (4x757, 1x763, 1xMD80) to 3 daily (3x757 weekday). But I don't care....just as long as it gets me back to Cali!!!!
 
Guest

RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:02 am

DUH!! No kidding its not the hub it used to be. The airline that used to use it was absorbed into the AA giant. It is now no longer needed as a hub or even a major airport. All the hub traffic is sucked away from it by ORD, MEM even DFW and IAH. STL is lucky its still more than an RJ turnaround point.

Sucks to be an STL taxpayer though, didn't they approve a big airport expansion and renovation thing not too long ago? I could be thinking of somewhere else
 
jsnww81
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:22 am

The one upside to the lack of activity is that maybe now St. Louis will renovate the terminal. The airport authority should take advantage of the lull in activity to methodically raze and rebuild the concourses - with something like 25 open gates, they can rotate airlines in and out as their concourses are being reconstructed.

Everyone on this board who's traveled through Lambert knows it's an absolute disgrace as far as cleanliness, modernity and ease of movement are concerned (much like London Heathrow). American announced some superficial renovations a year or two ago, but nothing appears to have been done aside from new carpeting.

On the other hand, the city may not be willing to spend a lot on STL if there's a chance traffic won't rebound...

Who knows. The plain truth is that STL needs better facilities. The landside terminal is beautiful, a real architectural gem. It's too bad the concourses can't be brought up to snuff.
 
Air1727
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To BeUsername: J

Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:07 am

Keep an eye on Delta Air Lines. Don't be surprised if they pull a sneak move at Lambert...  Big grin
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:57 am

Keep an eye on Delta Air Lines. Don't be surprised if they pull a sneak move at Lambert...
http://www.ksdk5.com/news/news_article_lc.asp?storyid=49596
anybody got a guess as to what the two more will be? It says Frontier will introduce 3 flights, I guess they mean 2. Big thumbs up

[Edited 2003-11-04 19:12:06]
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:09 am

RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:49 am

I would be real surprised if Delta came in with a large number of flights. Its just two close to CVG and DFW to make sense.

Oh wait, this is the airline industry we are talking about.

But really.

Oh wait, maybe I should read the link before I blab any more. Yah, uhah, ok, just worked a night shift
 Smile
 
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:55 am

Well thats kinda miss leading.

So what are Delta's new flights. I already new about the ones to SLC. They were announced in September, were they not?

And the new flights are?
 
LambertMan
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:57 am

YES. That's what I'm getting at, and it said Wednesday 3 new nonstops to DEN, so I guess that means 5 daily now? That whole article is not very well put together. Big thumbs up
 
twalives
Posts: 172
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:33 am

This is rather weird...no other news agency is reporting anything like this and neither of the airlines have press releases on their web sites. Either KSDK had the inside track or they are once again WRONG!
 
TWAMD-80
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:54 am

Is Frontier flying their A318's into STL now or are they still using the CRJ's?

TW
Two A-4's, left ten o'clock level continue left turn!
 
Air1727
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:57 am

RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To BeUsername: J

Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:11 am

Frontier is using A318s into STL now.
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
atcboy73
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 10:09 am

RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:23 am

Someone should write KSDK a letter and let them know that what they are selling is news, and that they don't do a very good job of it.

How hard is it to get it right?
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:22 am

Alright, LambertMan, you wanna know about how many, you got it. My apologies.....Didn't see your post the first time. Anyway, I am not sure how many gates American has, but however many, I would have to say there were at least over 20 mainline AA aircraft in the terminal at the time (When I came back, there were only about 10, maybe not even that many. That is just looking at the picture in my mind, so it's probably not that accurate. It looked like a ghostown. I had never seen STL this inactive before. If you get this response, sorry for not responding the first time. To put it briefly, at least 85% of the American gates looked occupied to me. The number of AA aircraft I saw when I returned four days later was nothing compared to October 27th. I am sure I am slightly off on my guesses, but not by much. Believe me, the traffic has been reduced incredibly. The traffic I saw on October 27th was significantly bigger than the traffic I saw on the evening of November 2nd.

--Thrust

Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
Air1727
Posts: 318
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To BeUsername: J

Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:52 am

After all is said and done, American will only consistently occupy 18 gates at Lambert. They will have overflow, but for now, there are 18 designated gates for the operation.
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
cs03
Posts: 397
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:52 am

I am not an expert at this, but seeing as AA has transferred Midwest hub connections to DFW and ORD to "protect" former STL PAX, you can be sure that STL people will try and lure new airlines in by lowering landing fees, and rental charges to use all that empty space! AA Must be spending a fortune for the terminal that they built that , yes, is quite empty! (at RDU)
 
yegbey01
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:45 pm

I can never undersatnd what AA gained from their TWA takeover now that they are transferring more flights to DFW and ORD.

It was nice to see TWA fly in and out of YYZ. All we have now is some crappy service with AA to STL which I think may be scrapped eventually.
 
pilotpip
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:54 pm

AA bought TWA with rosey ideas of being enormous and beating the UAL-USAir merger to the punch.

Frotier is using A318s and A319s no CRJs. I think the flights that "Delta" added are really Comair flights. They did add a flight to JFK on a CRJ but I really don't think there were any mainline flights added.
DMI
 
LambertMan
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:06 pm

We got 2 mainline to CVG, and that was announced awhile back along with the SLC flights. They say it was announced Tuesday morning, so I really don't know what to think. They also said that Frontier would announce 3 nonstops to Denver on Wednesday. So does this mean that F9 will be going DEN-STL 5x daily 319/318? If they do, maybe its an indicator that they are trying to get some market share and get their name out there and known for a future expansion? Who knows, the STLP-D is known for having shaky airline news so you never really know what you are gonna get. Big thumbs up
 
pilotpip
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:25 pm

I looked up a flight on F9 over the holidays and they still have only two flights daily from DEN.

I love how the media makes no mention of the fact that the codeshare flights aren't on AA. They mentioned at the very end of a story about the "Delta" flights to JFK that they were on RJs. I also enjoy how 'regional jet' is said like a dirty word and people seem to think that Jetstreams are deathtraps because they have props. Jeez. You don't have to know it all, just get the facts straight.

WE NEED THE WIDEBODIES BACK  Sad FED EX ISN'T ENOUGH  Sad  Sad
DMI
 
penguinflies
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RE: STL No Longer The Hub It Used To Be

Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:58 am

I never thought of our DC-8s as narrowbodies....heh, go ups!