Moolies
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The Future Of SAA Plane's

Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:17 am

Hi, does any body know the future of South African Airways boeing aircraft?
Where they are headed to and when they are being phased out?
When will the new business class be available?
and lastly why are they stopping first class on popular routes such as JHB-JFK?
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:49 am

i did see that the 762 flew its last flight to cape town and black on the 31st of october. It is so sad to see those beautiful birds head off into the sun.

 
Leskova
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:31 am

As far as I know, the 744s will be around for a while - unless, as is being discussed in another thread, SAA sells them to Cathay: the 732s will be replaced by the 319s that will start arriving within the next months, the 738s (have all been delivered by now?) will be replaced as soon as the 320s and - I think - 321s start arriving in Jo'burg - a few months ago, one of my SAA contacts here in Germany said something about a timeframe of 5-10 years for the 744s and 738s, depending on how quickly they could place them somewhere else.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:36 am

But any idea on which routes they will use the 744 becuase apparently they are withdrawing them from the USA routes?
 
Leskova
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:39 am

I think they're keeping some on the London routes, although the first 340-600s will begin arriving in LHR soon - not sure, maybe Australia and Asia? SAA has said that it wanted to expand in Asia, maybe they'll use the 744s for that - but, honestly, I'm not sure where they'll be sending them.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:41 am

Do you have any knowledge of what is happening to First Class?

Are they planning to keep it on LHR route?
 
SA006
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:47 am

Yes I agree Moolies it will be sad to see the 767 go

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Leskova
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:08 am

Hi,

as far as I know, First Class will be kept on the 744s - but everything else (except for the possible 380s) will be Business and Economy...

Actually, a few weeks back we got a brochure mentioning when the new Business Class would be introduced - I think that the Frankfurt-Jo'burg service was supposed to get that sometime in the first quarter of 2004...

I just took a look into Amadeus - at least according to what's been loaded into that, SAA will keep only 744s flying to LHR from Jo'burg and CT - I thought I had heard something about 346s going there as well, but that seems to be off... and I've taken a look through the the SAA routes that I know of, but was not able to find a single 744 on anything besides LHR, and that includes Australia and Asia: either they do have something new planned, or they're planning to keep the 744s busy only between JNB and LHR...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
SAA201
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:45 am

Hi all,

In addition to LHR, SAA will continue to use B744's to Lagos for the forseeable future.
 
David_itl
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:28 am


I believe they've sent some A340s to LHR this past week - can't remember what version though.

David
 
donder10
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:38 am

Yep David,
-200s but they managed to get more 2 weekly LHR-CPT flights so we still get our 3 daily 747s.
 
Leskova
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:36 pm

Donder10, absolutely right - just realised that I hadn't looked at CPT-LHR completely: SA222 and SA224 (operating Friday and Saturday respectively) go out of CPT at 21:00 and 21:35 and come in to LHR on Saturday/Sunday at 06:55/07:30.

Up to 29NOV they're both scheduled to be A340-200s, afterwards they're changed to something really unusual for LHR: 747s...  Sad
Smile - it confuses people!
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:38 pm

I don't think Cathay will get the SAA 744s, but the fact that SAA have offered them for sale may indicate they are willing to let them go, however they may have been willing to replace them with other non-Rolls Royce powered 744s, as they would be cheaper to buy and easier to eventually sell.
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:40 pm

Hi please explain what you mean about the rolls-royce engines?
I am now very confused. I thought they were a relatively good engine. Doesnt the BA 744 have rolls royce engines?
Any idea why SAA chose rolls royce?

Why would u get more cash for non rolls-royce engines?
 
Flyer
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:44 pm

How many A340-600 did they ordered?
 
donder10
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:46 pm

Would make for a rather interesting shot to get all 4 of the SAA 747s in one frame on the bmi ramp here!
Is the plan still have to the 346 on the CPT route from Jan.?
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:49 pm

I think they ordered 9 346 and 6 343 with an option for 3 more or 6 more 343.

I dont think it will be a 346 from CPT-LHR. Maybe in jan for a while but rumour has it the 346 will be used on new york and atlanta routes and only 744 to london.

If you like there are pics of 4 SAA 744 at Ilha da Sol.
 
Leskova
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 10:06 pm

At least for now, there are no A340-600s scheduled on LHR-CPT - maybe they've got something planned, but nothing in the schedules as of yet.

LHR might be interesting in another sense - it seems that there'll be 744s, 743s and 742s operating on LHR-JNB in December... where else, except for JNB, can you see that...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 10:13 pm

Moolies,

Rolls Royce engined 747-400s are quite rare. When SAA comes to sell them when they retire them, they are probably going to find it difficult to sell, whereas the two non-Rolls Royce 747-400s they operate are probably going to be easier to sell, and will go for a higher price. Now, there is a customer out there (us), looking for a large quantity of 747-400s, and they have to be Rolls Royce engined, and being more unusual, CX might have to pay a higher price for them than they would pay for a GE or PW one. It makes very good business sense for SAA to offload the Rolls Royce 747-400s for a high price, and get a cheap GE or PW one to replace the RR one.
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 10:18 pm

Ok thanks, why doesnt cathay look at the 773ER?

why did cathay buy the 346?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sat Nov 08, 2003 10:44 pm

We are looking at the 773ER, but many of our outports are asking head office for the 744, and the problem is, there aren't enough to go around, that's why we need more. The 773ER is about 60 pax and 80 tonnes short of a 744, so they are not even comparable. We may indeed buy the 773ER to further develop those long and thin routes already established by the A340-300s.

As for the A346, they were mainly bought for the HKG-JFK service, for which a date has not yet been set. However at the moment, the plan is that they will be returned when the leases expire in a few years. However, a few years in the airline business is an eternity, so who knows.
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:59 pm

You seem to know what your saying. Then if the 346 is more economical why not buy more? Or why but it if it isnt as economical as the the 773 or 744?
 
covert
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:44 pm

Since no more 767's, what does SAA use to the West Coast now (Accra, Abidjan?)

covert
none
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:57 pm

I think they will use a 738, or the 342, i know they use the 744 to lagos. so maybe a 747 or the 342. but i think they use the 738.
 
lxlgu
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:03 pm

They use the 342 to Abidjan/Accra
To Lagos it is a mix bag of 742/743/744/342 and 346 until end Dec

Cheers!
Tony
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:20 pm

Hi lxglu, where did you get your info?
Im constantly looking for more info on SAA
 
lxlgu
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:16 pm

Hi Moolies!
I am a travel agent and have access to a CRS computer
I find at at the moment that SAA have a mixed bag of aircraft on routes

Cheers!
Tony
 
lxlgu
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:23 pm

Moolies!
Why dont you take advantage of the special 747SP flight to George on
23 November
Probably the last chance to fly the aircraft
Does anyone know what is happening to the SP.
Rumor has it it is going to Nigeria
It is flying at 0030 Mon 24 Nov to Lagos and I do not pick up a flight
back operating

Cheers!
Tony
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:45 pm

Ah you see the thing is I am writing an exam the next day so i have to study then. Wish I could, however I am going to get on a 741 and a SP on saudi or Iranair. my mother think sim crazy going all that way jsut to fly on an aeroplane. But hey its love.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:54 am

Moolies,

I am not completely sure about the economics of it all, but the 744 is too big to fly the non-stop HKG-JFK route. The 773ER is not ready yet, and the JFK route was due to have started quite a long time ago, so the A346 was available sooner. There are elements of our management very reluctant for Trans-Pacific ETOPS flights. It is hard to say whether we will choose more A346s or 777-300ERs, but the 346 has had many reliability problems, and everyone keeps praising the 777-300ER. Who knows.
 
9v-svc
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Future Of SAA Planes's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:08 am

CX_Flyboy : What kind of reliability problems ? A346 is a pretty new plane , I am sure after sometime the problems will be solved and the a/c will be flying in and out like other normal a/cs .
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
United Airline
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:35 am

CX will probably order a mixture of B 747 Advanced as well as B 777-300ER when the time comes. Second hand B 747-400 is a short term solution.

Heard that CX will return its A 340-600 when the lease expires.
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:14 am

Maybe somebody should tell SAA that.
Wish they would as I think boeings would complement their fleet better.

The mechanics are already trained for boeings and so is all the crew.
 
United Airline
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:26 am

I will not rule out another new Boeing in SAA's fleet in the future.
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:36 am

I fully agree, what puzzles me is SAA are going to use a 346 on the JNB-JFK/ATL route, why not get 772LR or 773ER to use then you dont have to make a stop over and can go direct?
It would save a lot of money and travelling time.
 
Leskova
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:54 am

Well, the 773ER wouldn't really do more for the JNB-JFK/ATL routes - according to Boeings website it has a range of 7420nm, the A340-600 has, according to Airbus' website, a range of 7500nm: according to the Great Circle mapper, JNB-ATL is 7334nm, JNB-JFK is 6925 - so, in theory, both aircraft should be capable of operating the route.

And if they really want to do the route nonstop in both directions, why not simply add the A340-500, which fits into the fleet quite nicely without adding another type...

I also wouldn't rule out Boeings for SAA in the future - but I'd guess that the B737-800 debacle has cured them at least for now...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:03 am

Thing is people say Boeing lied to SAA about how economical the 738 would be. Also some peopel say the previous SAA chairman got commission from Boeing.

To be honest, who knows and who cares.
 
Leskova
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:09 am

Well, in the case of the economics issue, I'd bet that SAA cares - Boeing promised a lot, and a lot was not kept (interchangeable ground equipment and pilot cross training are the two things that immediately come to mind), so I guess that the persons making the aircraft purchase decisions will probably be a bit suspicious at the moment...

... then again, it's really not as if Airbus has kept every promise that it has ever made...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Moolies
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:12 am

I know hence Coleman Andrews was fired with a $30 million retrenchment package. He was the one who oredered the planes.

How ever I have heard their are some cries of foul coming from the SAA crew and management about airbusses unkept promises. If I ran an airline I would contractionally bind them that what ever they lie about they keep paying, ie subsidise the lied about difference.
 
Leskova
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RE: The Future Of SAA Plane's

Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:30 am

Which is a practice employed by quite a lot of airlines... it would actually surprise me if SAA were any different on that...

The point is, whenever one of the two manufacturers is chosen to replace the products of the other - and sometimes even if one is chosen to replace it's own products - there is almost inevitably always going to be someone who cries foul...

Practically no airline has ever introduced a new aircraft into service without teething problems, that's nothing new - and always have the manufacturers done whatever they could to rectify the problems, and almost always the problems will be solved one way or the other... the other being by financial means...
Smile - it confuses people!

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