GOTbound
Topic Author
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:06 am

Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:07 am

The last years downturn for the airlines business keeps me wondering, did airline travel get to casual? What I meen with that is that almost "everybody" flew every where and expected to get "bargain" prices every time. This didn't bother the airline since they had a lot of business traffic that accepted to pay higher fairs. But when the full price business travelers dropped in numbers the airlines where stuck with a lot of "casual" passengers. This is just my thoughts, please feel free to comment!

rgs.GOTbound
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:10 am

Yes, it did, and for the reasons that you mentioned. This, of course, is not limited to air travel, but something that has permeated our whole culture:

EVERYTHING is "casual" or "low grade" now. 10 and 20 years ago, everybody wore suits to the office. Now, tee shirts and Levis or Khakis are the norm. Hell I'm sitting in my office right now and I'm wearing denim shorts, a white tank top, and sandals. And "customer service" just about anywhere you went actually meant something, as opposed to the empty marketing rhetoric that it is now.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:33 am

I discussed this with a very good friend of mine, who's looking for a right hand seat at an airline the moment, and my uncle, who travels to the most strange places for his company, and we all pretty much agreed that people had started to adopt the "I want the world for 5$" idea, in that they paid very little, yet they were expecting everything (ie. free upgrades etc.).
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:55 am

Matt D

YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT!!!!! but i want to make one thing very clear, and that is THIS IS AN AMERICAN phenonina. A lot of other countries just can't bring themselves to go that causual.... we like suits and we are gonna keep it that way.

Now in asia you'd get fired for doing that, beside dirty looks from most of your colleagues, and in Europe and Australia a lot of people would think that you simply had no "style" and were some kind of hill billy. I doubt you the day will ever come when you see British Businessmen not wearing dark navy suits, or Zurich Bankers not having their pinstrips.....

So has it spilled over to aviation? In america YES god damn it! Really some of those ppl just have no respect for the whole experience.
LCC doesn't have to mean nasty white trash passenger behaviour! And likewise for everything else.
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:04 am

On a related topic, just why has this revolution taken place?

We all know that it HAS happened. I want to know WHY.

I have attended two weddings and one funeral this year to date. On all three occasions, I wore a suit and tie. Yet I saw people wearing T-shirts and jeans. Some of the shirts were the ones that have silly cartoons and captions on them. To weddings and funerals.

Call me old fashioned, but I always believed that if you went to a wedding in anything less than a suit or tuxedo, not only is that disrespectful, but you shouldn't even be allowed in.
 
Guest

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:07 am

Casual Hippie parents beget casual Hippie kids. All the grunge fans are out of college now and in the workforce. You had to see this coming.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:21 am

OKAY EVERYBODY I HAVE THE SOLUTION!!!

BA are you listening? Now pay attention!

Lets introduce a dress code! We can blame it on safety regulations! No flip flops, tank tops, jeans with holes in the ass or anything else that looks it was the first thing you could grab of the fool and slap on!

I mean, even these airlines with polo shirts for their FA's uniform? Excuse me but what the hell is that kind of shit? Dress for Success PPL! And ppl wonder why some companies aren't taken seriously? Anyway, I think if one airline was BOLD enough to have a dress code... say that of a decent restaurant (not highly exclusive but still not some nasty chain type), well, I'm sure all the business travellers out there would greatly appreciate not having to put up with the screaming unruly kids, drunken slobs and the Al Bundy family on board!

[Edited 2003-11-08 17:25:14]
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:21 am

Matt D

Yes I agree that people who show up for weddings and a funeral in jeans and t-shirts it is not acceptable.

As far as flying goes I have seen people dressed up and not one both the majors and also LCC's, so it is across the board.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:27 am

Luv2fly

Yes your right, it's across the board! It's still no good so how about we get rid of it across the board!
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:32 am

So has it spilled over to aviation? In america YES god damn it! Really some of those ppl just have no respect for the whole experience.

You mean, the experience of flying on an airplane?

True, flying used to be for the rich..... 40-50 years ago or more. In those days, it was too expensive for many middle-class folks to fly.

But then.... having an automobile was for the rich before the Model T Ford - nearly 90-100 years ago. When they were for the rich, most people dressed up before going out in their motorcar..... so I don't see you complaining about people not wearing a suit, tie and top hat when you're driving out on the interstate.

Times change.

I'm not advocating the proliferation of casual wear in the workplace.... I actually prefer to wear a suit and tie to casual clothes in an office. But for paying pax? They pay the ticket, they can wear anything they want as long as it's decent and not obscene.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:45 am

They pay the ticket, they can wear anything they want as long as it's decent and not obscene.

Which is exactly why Paris and Milan remain the style capital of the world! I'm an american, its a free country, I don't give a shit how i look or what anybody else thinks..... Really, subconsciously what you saying is... I just don't give a shit... I don't give a shit about me, and I don't give a shit about you, my fellow passengers, and I don't give a shit about the professionals who are serving me.

This is where some of you get it wrong.... You think you have to be rich to look decent! WRONG. WRONG WRONG. You just have to make effort, and behave accordingly. ITS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY.... it's called 'culture'.
Magic key word. I'm not going to bother explain... if most of you are adults and don't get it by now your a lost cause.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:53 am

Lufthansa

I also think it has a lot to do with how you are brought up, as I was brought up to look my best when I went to school, shopping and such, and when out hanging with friends we had separate clothes for that as well. Also in this day and age of the TV bringing up the kids, kids looking up to the likes of Britney and Madonna, the MTV generation.

I remember even as a kid going to pick up my Dad from the airport we had to dress up just to go to the airport.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:56 am

Whoever said I'm American? I don't consider it an insult, sir.... but I'm certainly not American.

But alas, you and I both know that even the biggest assh*le can be dressed in the most expensive three-piece suit. What you wear has nothing to do with what you contribute or take away from "culture."

Culture isn't about what you wear.... it's about how you treat other people and how you act and behave while in society. My parents, fortunately, taught me a lot about manners and were fairly strict in making sure I followed them.... which I do to this day, even though I haven't sat at my parents' dinner table in quite a long time. "Please" and "Thank you" are part of my normal vocabulary. Trust me; mannerisms and being very polite helps a lot more in getting along than what you're wearing.

[Edited 2003-11-08 17:58:12]
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:58 am

Has Flying Gotten to Casual?


Yes....


Take some pride in yourself and look half way decent on your next flight. Don't pack your belongings in paper bags. And most of all... cut back on the alcohol before departure!



LHR001
 
upgradeplease
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:22 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:16 am

Goose
You hit the nail on the head! Flying is not the right of the super rich and what YOU wear has nothing to do with MY experience flying. I remember having to wear a tie when we flew because that is what mom made us do but now I wear sneakers that slip off and the baggiest jeans and shirt I own. I want to be comfortable.

Lufthansa
You are right I don't give a shit about you or what anyone else thinks. If you do not like what I am wearing than that is your problem. Not mine!, BTW, what's with the American Bashing?

LHR001
Lay off the alcohol? Why am I expected to fly the plane?
Is ignorance something you have to practice or were you blessed that way?
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:29 am

Upgradeplease,

Let me put you into place on a few things!

1/Americans in regards to the flying public are often considered as less than manageable. Be it the whining, the moaning, the groaning, or the constant... Doesn't anyone speak English? If you get on a plane that is headed out of your borders.. Do the country a favor - leave the sports t-shirt at home, leave the alcoholic beverage until it is served to you at a proper time, and most importantly... Do what you are instructed to do by a educated, and trained Flight Attendant, or Cabin Crew Member... And lastly.... When you purchase a ticket on Priceline... Don't go sniffing around the Gate Agent for an upgrade!

2/If you want to be comfortable fly in Business or First Class.. And in doing so - head over to a civilized retailer and find pants and shoes that fit you!

3/Don't assume that someone is Anti-American unless you are the person speaking. I have a newsflash for you... Because a person does not have a American flag blasted all over them... That does not make them any less American than you!

4/"Culture", is something you may want to look into!


LHR001
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:30 am

I still refuse to wear jeans on a plane. It is just the way I was brought up.

There is nothing more maddening then seeing some slob show up in cut offs and a tank top in a public venue....who's to blame...the 1960's sub-culture baby boomers who told the world that "anything goes" and screw the rest.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:32 am

You bring up an interesting point. However, you have to look at what is being marketed out there.

Just this morning I was watching a program on one of the cable networks...it might have been "E", I can't remember...but a "style expert" from NYC was helping a young college graduate build a wardrobe for a first job in the corporate world.

He chose "flip flops" for her footwear and a spaghetti-strapped top. Now, he did put a jacket over the top but my point is that how are people supposed to know where the do/don't "lines" fall when things like "flip flops" and spaghetti straps are showcased as "appropriate" business attire?

Ironically, I was also looking at some pictures posted by another a.net member who remains nameless, who lives in a "fashionable" non-U.S. city and was traveling in first class...and his wife had on ratty looking jeans (although that didn't offend me, I'm just pointing it out). So I find it funny that this "casual" trend is being pitted only on middle-class Americans.
 
upgradeplease
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:22 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:44 am

Let me put you into place on a few things!

1/Americans in regards to the flying public are often considered as less than manageable. Be it the whining, the moaning, the groaning, or the constant... Doesn't anyone speak English? If you get on a plane that is headed out of your borders.. Do the country a favor - leave the sports t-shirt at home, leave the alcoholic beverage until it is served to you at a proper time, and most importantly... Do what you are instructed to do by a educated, and trained Flight Attendant, or Cabin Crew Member... And lastly.... When you purchase a ticket on Priceline... Don't go sniffing around the Gate Agent for an upgrade!

2/If you want to be comfortable fly in Business or First Class.. And in doing so - head over to a civilized retailer and find pants and shoes that fit you!

3/Don't assume that someone is Anti-American unless you are the person speaking. I have a newsflash for you... Because a person does not have a American flag blasted all over them... That does not make them any less American than you!

4/"Culture", is something you may want to look into!

Well I did not know it was going to be a personal bashing thread. Please, I prefer if you continue to bash americans and not me personally. But in response...When did Prada start making a sports team t-shirt? What the hell is priceline? I have never had to ask for an upgrade and have not flown coach in years so go figure. (Platinum Dl,CO,UA). If you are feeling unpatriotic well that is YOUR problem not MINE. However, I do feel that most Americans are slobs and insist on pointing their finger at others. (sound familiar)
And lastly I have more "Culture" under my manicured thumb nail than you can even possibly gain in a lifetime.
Is ignorance something you have to practice or were you blessed that way?
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:01 am

upgradeplase,


I knew you would come around sniffing for more!

So, I take it you have flown

BRITISH AIRWAYS
Concorde
LHR-JFK-LHR

BRITISH AIRWAYS
(First Class)
JFK-LHR-JFK
SFO-LHR-SFO
LAX-LHR-SFO
DFW-LGW-DFW
LHR-JNB-LHR
LHR-BKK-LHR
LHR-HKG-TPE-HKG-LHR

QANTAS
(First Class)
LHR-SIN-MEL
LAX-SYD-MEL
JFK-LAX-SYD

Emirates
(First Class)
FCO-DXB-FCO
LHR-DXB-LHR
HKG-DXB-HKG

Lan Chile
(First Class)
FRA-MAD-SCL-MAD-FRA
LAX-LIM-SCL-EZE-SCL-LIM-LAX

South African
(First Class)
GRU-JNB-GRU
MXP-JNB-CPT-JNB-MXP
JFK-SAL-CPT-JNB-CPT-SAL-JFK

Should I entertain you with more???

I dont believe I have the time!

I think you are starting to see my point! Well, for now be happy on your 737 and DC-10! Along with other Priceline clientele!

Furthermore, If you travel so very much you would realize that your appearance is a direct reflection of your self esteem, and upbringing!


Ciao


LHR001
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Casual Flights

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:04 am

WEll said LHR, well said.

I'm adding you to my respected user's list, you are obviously a gent, and professional.

You hit the nail on the head. I think something many ppl forget is that when you travel abroad, you are representing your country on the world stage.
That starts the moment you board a long haul flight!
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:06 am

4/"Culture", is something you may want to look into!

Methinks this comment was directed at me, as I distinguished being "cultures" as being a whole lot more to do with personality and mannerisms than with attire.

Alas, if you want to think that wearing a suit makes you cultured all by itself, that's perfectly fine.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
av8rphx
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:10 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:21 am

This is a constant arguement with my fiancee and I. She feels if she pays for the ticket she can wear what she wants as long as she is "comfortable". My thoughts on it are that,while I am paying for the service, I shall at least look presentable. This doesnt mean you need to wear an Armani suit, but at least a nice pair of slacks and a nice shirt. I think alot of it has to do with the "Greyhound" syndrome we have fallen into now... Airlines like WN attract clientele that Greyhound would normally get and it spills over to other airlines. My parents just recently came out to visit me in PHX, I asked them what they were going to be wearing,they said jeans and a tshirt... I told them to try dressing up and looking a bit more professional. They both said they were addressed more professionally than some of the other pax wearing crappy clothes... This was two different airlines btw... (SY and NW).
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:28 am

In respect to everyone on this forum and especially in this discussion.

You are all intitled to your very individual feelings and opinions. To be honest we are all seperate from one another and in that we have very different ways of expressing ourselves

In addition due to the current social and World climate it would be in the best interest for persons traveling abroad to keep a low and very unpronounced profile. This is called - "respecting the culture". If you are travelling to Europe or Asia, dress respectable.

Unfortunately not all people are of the belief not to judge a book by its cover! So, in that instance there are many cultures that do. So, dress as you would liek to be percieved. If you dress overtly casual and have holes in your clothing, dont expect to be rubbing elbows in First Class!

The United States, for years has been desribed as a "uncultured", and "rogue" nation... Partly due to the fact of how we are seen in major World cities.

It is a social commentary and dircted at anyone person in particular!
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:41 am

Furthermore, If you travel so very much you would realize that your appearance is a direct reflection of your self esteem, and upbringing!


Yes it is very much so! You have once again said it LHR! I think what people don't realise is, when they do make the effort, they are saying to everybody, "I care enough about you to be bothered go to the trouble"

And it is very much about self esteem and upbringing... and guess what everbody, these things don't cost money. They are about attitude. You know, all the people who make america great that are really influencial and shaping things... I'm not talking pop stars here but ppl like Hilary Clinton, Ophra, etc. Think about it there are plenty of them all. They all bothered take care of their appearence. And why? Because they had high self esteem and they believed in themselves and they wanted other's too as well.

Im not going to take this any further.... if you don't get it by now, you've missed the boat. It is unfortunate that some great US carriers are the ones that have to pay the price.
 
upgradeplease
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:22 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:42 am

LHR001
I take that as an apology. As I am sure your previous post was 100% bullshit. I actually sort of agree with you now. I can tell a pretentious asshole just by what they are wearing and how they carry themselves. You are excused and may return to your mental masturbation.
Is ignorance something you have to practice or were you blessed that way?
 
Guest

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:45 am

The United States, for years has been desribed as a "uncultured", and "rogue" nation... Partly due to the fact of how we are seen in major World cities.

Ain't that the truth. We stick out like a sore thumb when we board a BA 777 in flip flops and a T-Shirt that says "Got Milk???" I'm sure the BA crews are thinking... "Got class???" Of course the airlines aren't helping either. I understand most have relaxed their dress codes for Non-Rev's.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:58 am

Upgradeplease,

I wouldnt apologize for standing on my morals.... I am just unfortunately facing the fact that you are part of the "downfall" of class in aviation!

Going Boeing Gone,

It was a sad day when airlines dropped the Non-Rev standards. On a recent AA flight a passenger (who was a non rev), was barking at the fact that I was upgraded over her. Tuff... I paid for my upgrade! And on that subject...

Airlines offer First and Business Class to premium paying passengers. First and Business Class cabins are not employee breakrooms!

Lufthansa,

What can I say.... We know class when we see it... Your title -Lufthansa- says it all... Finally, a civilized patron!



LHR001

 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:59 am

I'm convinced now that BGG and LHR are the same identities. The same juvenile, elitist rubbish from the two of them. Similar grammatical mistakes and unconnected thoughts in posts.

I think this forum has gotten too casual.

I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
triscl
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:08 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:09 am

What a load of crap. Because of this forum, next time I'm flying First I plan to wear my ripped jeans and a tank top. And I'll make friends in the cabin. Watch me.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:12 am

MIsrar,

Considering that MKE is your base... I am most suprised you can contribute anything.... realistic!

Leave the flying to the people that can afford it! And in that instnce... take close attention to this old saying-


If you cant afford to do it right!

Dont do it at all!


ciao


LHR001
 
Guest

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:19 am

I'm convinced now that BGG and LHR are the same identities. The same juvenile, elitist rubbish from the two of them. Similar grammatical mistakes and unconnected thoughts in posts.

This sites not worth $25 let alone 50. Gramatical mistakes. What, are you an English Prof too????
 
upgradeplease
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:22 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:23 am

MLSRAR & TRISCL
Ditto! Btw, LHR why would you pay for an upgrade? If you were such a frequent flyer and smart enough to pay full coach I believe most airlines would upgrade you with out even being asked.

Final thought:
Wear what makes you comfortable have a drink and relax...Flying should be fun. F*#%@ what anybody else thinks!
Is ignorance something you have to practice or were you blessed that way?
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:23 am

Considering that MKE is your base... I am most suprised you can contribute anything.... realistic!

Leave the flying to the people that can afford it! And in that instnce... take close attention to this old saying-


I don't need to validate my income to you. And, I also am insulted at your insinuation.

This sites not worth $25 let alone 50. Gramatical mistakes. What, are you an English Prof too????

??? Then leave.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
amhilde
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:01 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:36 am

When I was a kid my mom used to dress us up in nice clothes for our long haul flight every summer. It was very important to her that she and us looked nice not only on the plane, but when we arrived in ORD and the relatives picked us up. This has carried over considerably to now when i fly long haul or almost anywhere. A nice pair of trousers and a button down top or nice sweater and some decent shoes really arent that difficult to put on. It irks me to no end to crawl on a Buswest flight and see fat slobs in sweat pants (which i feel should be banned from public places) and t-shirts. This is one of the reasons i detest flying that airline- because a majority of their clientele out of this airport (RNO) take no pride in themselves and their appearance and it definitely shows when they get on that plane. And the F/As- ok maybe their uniforms are more comfortable for their duties than say the more "elaborate" ones like on AirNZ (gotta love those hats!) or AA or United, but a lot of the time I feel like im on a school trip where the F/As are the chaperone moms. Its just not professional. And maybe that image may be fine for the fat slobs who would otherwise be intimidated by a suit of authority, but its not for me.

Now i am an American, but I do not approve in the "downhill" manner our society has taken. The Wal-Mart-ization of this country is extremely unnerving, and I think that it has reduced many good, common values this country held at one time. Cheap is not always best, but far too many people simply see a cheap tag, and expect everything to be as cheap. I would also like a return to certain civilities, such as wearing nice suits of clothes to work and common respect paid to people on a regular basis because thats what people do, not because they are paid to do so. Im always nice to desk agents, or agents on the phone, because I know how difficult it can be for a job, and I always make sure i say please and thank you and use a smile and say have a nice day- because its the little things like that which count in life and make society a better place.

Sorry, but is it just me or does it seem like pax who fly Southwest simply cannot check luggage? Ive seen more people try to jam more large pieces of luggage (that of course wont fit and of course crush whatever I have placed in there) in the overhead bins on that airline than i have on any other. Another pet peeve of flying Southwest  Smile
Hang on tightly, Let go lightly
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:43 am

Americans in regards to the flying public are often considered as less than manageable.

I take offense at this, especially when there have been many cases of unruly non-US passengers on airlines. In one case, a chartered jet carrying British vacationers had to divert somewhere around Gander because the pax were so unruly. And the Delta flights from Moscow to JFK were reportedly known for loud and obnoxious Russian pax who drank heavily.

The problem of unruly pax is so widespread worldwide that most countries and carriers have explicit policies for dealing with the problem.
 
RiverVisualNYC
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:11 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:43 am

I agree with those who say it has to do with society, not with flying. There are actually two factors at work, the first being the change in the business world, which was driven by Silicon Valley, and the second being the drive for lower prices. In the late '90s internet boom, alot of workplaces adopted the model of West Coast tech companies, and relaxed or repealed their dress codes because they believed that a more casual environment would foster innovation. This was the "business casual" trend that we see today, i.e. Gap turtleneck and Dockers etc. replaced the suit and tie. As a result, business travelers showed up to fly casual, just as they would go to work casual. In my experience, even on Concorde you didn't see people dressed up anymore.

The second factor of course is lower prices. Consumers and LCCs squeezed major airlines to lower their fares, which of course allowed more people to be able to afford to fly. Some of these people would have otherwise taken the bus or train, and had no frame of reference as to what flying used to be like back in the '60s and '70s. So to such people flying was nothing special, and given the tight seating arrangements such people would dress as comfortably as possible, even if this meant a tank top and shorts. While some of us old timers may be disgusted when we see that, remember that it's these people that are keeping the seats filled. In any event, the airline industry is economically in no position to dictate what its customers wear, so I sadly don't see the trend reversing anytime soon.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:46 am

RiverVisualNYC

You win for hitting the nail on the head and saying it best. Thanks
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:48 pm




**LCC doesn't have to mean nasty white trash passenger behaviour! And likewise for everything else.**


**I mean, even these airlines with polo shirts for their FA's uniform? Excuse me but what the hell is that kind of shit? Dress for Success PPL! And ppl wonder why some companies aren't taken seriously? Anyway, I think if one airline was BOLD enough to have a dress code... say that of a decent restaurant (not highly exclusive but still not some nasty chain type), well, I'm sure all the business travellers out there would greatly appreciate not having to put up with the screaming unruly kids, drunken slobs and the Al Bundy family on board!**


Lufthansa and LHR001

What is this? Are you prejudice against certain classes? Are you next going to say that certain races and ethnic groups can't fly planes because they aren't as well off financially?

Yeah I don't like hearing screaming kids on board either, and yes something should be done like keeping the kids quiet. Yeah screaming kids should not be in the business or first class section, but they shouldn't be in the coach class either. The "commoners" or "steerage" as you two would call them that fly on their 737s and DC-10s are people too and don't deserve to have to listen to screaming kids either.

IF the "white trash" want to sit up in first class and they paid for their ticket, as long as they aren't acting like "white trash" let them sit there. If they want to wear t shirts and jeans, so what? As long as they are behaving and not making a scene out of themselves by talking loud and being obnoxious.

Yeah I believe in wearing a shirt and tie to the office place, but if I am not travelling on business and I am travelling on vacation and buy a first or business class ticket I believe I have a right to wear what I want to wear. Why should I have to wear a suit on a long trip? It gets hot and uncomfortable and I am going on vacation. So when I am not in the office or at a funeral or wedding, you won't see me in a suit otherwise or even a tie.

Yes you are more likely to see me wearing a Megadeth t shirt (without holes and wrinkles) or a nicely ironed Red Wings hockey jersey with a clean pair of jeans without holes, than you would seeing me wear a suit.

My issue with flying first class or business has to do with behavior. Everytime there was a rude or obnoxious passenger up there, it wasn't the "White trash" as you two socially superior biggots would call them, it was the guy in the nice Armani suit.

He was the one always pushing the call button, constantly demanding the flight attendant see him. If he/she didn't come at his call, he would be the one making a big fuss. He was the one complaining about food, he was the one complaining he couldn't get up and walk around when the seat belt sign was on, he was the one talking loud and rude, not the Bundy Family sitting behind him. Somehow I think I have been on a flight with one of you two and you were the guy I just described.

Some people think that because they are wearing a nice suit, they are all that more high and mighty than those around them.

Let me also mention this. Someone could have a nice suit, but that is where he spends all his money. Otherwise he is that "white trash" you are talking about. So someone who you would describe as Walmart people, suddenly change a social class status because they spent their last check on a suit instead?

You ever notice that the really rich also don't always dress that fancy?

You ever hear the story about the man who started the Walmart chains? He is one of the richest men in the world, but yet every sunday morning he drives his old pickup truck to eat breakfast at the same diner he ate at before he owned the chain.
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:40 am

I think some people's way to practice conversation out here became even lower than casual: Shit...crap...bullshit...masturbation...other "nice" words...

Everything becomes casual, when people claim, to have the right, because the paid.
Still, some things are pretty normal, if You like it or not, but offending other people by violating unwritten rules is just casual and it disqualifies everyone.
The "dress-codes" and so are not too strict. Good behavior os nothing snobish but it shows, that You in some way respect the people around You.
And, claiming loudly the right to do what comforts, when something different is usual, this is what creates biased opinions, like we had above mentioned, it also is actually pretty arrogant, not to care about other people, when violating the given rules.
So what is the problem? Nobody is forced to anything - fly a lower class if You don't like the works in higher ones.
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:55 am

YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT!!!!! but i want to make one thing very clear, and that is THIS IS AN AMERICAN phenonina. A lot of other countries just can't bring themselves to go that causual.... we like suits and we are gonna keep it that way.


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I dont think this guy is an American.  Smile
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:14 am

hlywdctft-

Southwest Airlines Clientele??

JetBlue Clientele??

Myself, raised between California and Europe.

Have a newsflash for you!

Class is not recieved through a University education in the US... Class is not recieved when you recieve an American Express card... Class is not driving a fancy sports car!

Class and Culture, are something that is taught from the beginning. I must also say that in the U.S. you have Hooters Air.... Is that class? You have hookers running for Governor... Presidents and their Cowboy-ization of other nations!
 
Guest

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:16 am

Myself, raised between California and Europe.

What happened to you being a 25 year old sales manager living in Boston?
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:16 am

Also Class is NOT listing all the flights you have taken and in what class in hopes of impressing someone! If you really had class you would know that....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
railmatt
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 12:48 pm

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:26 am

I prefer to fly full service carriers, but frankly the two times I have flown Southwest their clientele was dressed better than the average coach passenger on the majors.

These were weekday flights in business markets.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:33 am

Hey LHR001 gets around he use to be Kl777jfk so take what he says with a grain of salt, as that is what I am sure it is truly worth.....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:51 am

Air travel became started to become casual with deregulation. With deregulation, air travel has become another form of mass transit since it allowed much more people the opportunity to fly.

Dressing up for travel has nothing to do with class. It was just a common practice for people to dress nicely when traveling, regardless of class or form of travel. Everyone did it, even those not traveling, because going to the bus station, train station, docks, airport, etc. was seen as a social event since it did not actually happen very often in a person's life.

I don't see anything wrong with a person wanting to dress comfortably while traveling, regardless of the for travel.

Also, the majority of pax who don't check in luggage are the ones that travel the most, i.e. the dressed up business people.
 
triscl
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:08 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:11 am

I am slapping myself on the wrist for enabling this lame discussion. But it really gets my blood boiling.

LHR001- What is your occupation? Do you luxuriate at all times? And I would like to hear a definition of "class" from you. To me, your implied definition sounds like kind of a dubious distinction. And it seems endless talk about who has and who doesn't have class is a little gauche, no? I will give you this: any medium of communication in which emoticons can be used is NOT a formal discussion. So maybe you're sleeves are rolled up and your white gloves are off. And I have to add: those lists you keep making are really tacky.

HA763-I agree. The majority of people I see trying to bring large bags onto the airplane are business people wanting to avoid the lines on arrival.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:15 am

LUV2FLY,


Fly on "real" airlines...

LUV.... In reference to cattle-like Southwest Airlines??? If ynot your spelling is in need of education!

ProudtoFlyAA,

Your AA is going broke!

I shall think of all of you the next time I hear of an event of "air rage"...

American Airlines..... Passenger loaded with a "shoe bomb" CDG-MIA!

America West Airlines..... Passengers notice a drunk cockpit crew!

Delta Airlines..... Passengers notice a drunk Captain!

Hooter Air..... Passengers believe girls need to have big boobies to offer service?? No... Sorry!

Southwest Airlines..... Passengers murdered so called "nuts" passenger from SLC-LAS!

Southwest Airlines..... Passenger smuggled box cutter onboard as was not discovered for weeks!

United Airlines..... Passenger rudely "Dumped", on a First Class meal cart EZE-JFK!


Should we keep going?

What airlines have the most

- childish issues??
- appearance issues??
- lack of "class" when traveling??

Answer - see above!
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Did Flying Get To "casual"?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:55 am

Finally...he's back.

Real airlines? I guess that you should ask your institution of higher learning for a refund, as your 'luxury' occupation failed to inform you of the following incidents on 'Real' airlines:

10th July 2002, a 35 year old man tried to break into the cockpit of a South African Airways B-747 en route from Cape Town to London. Two passengers and cabin crew wrestled him to the ground.

Ian Brown, lead singer of the Stone Roses, received a four month jail sentence in October 1998 following his threat to cut off the hands of a British Airways stewardess. He is not the only rockstar to hit the headlines in this way, Cathay Pacific Airlines have issued a lifetime ban on Liam Gallagher of Oasis.

BOSTON (Reuters) - In a span of a few hours, two British flights headed for Mexico landed at a Maine airport to unload three men in separate air rage incidents that involved drugs, alcohol and brawling, police said on Saturday.

***

Of course, these were only the results of a short search on the subject. Futher research, aspiring to reach your noteworthy standards, would reveal even more. Air-rage has no class, airline preference, education-level or income.

And, what does the actions of the United passenger have to say about first-class, educated passsengers? This guy was an investment banker. I've seen my fair share of business-men, moreover, engineers and sales consultants on my way back from my Guangzhou trips take out their stress with a fifth of tanqueray. I would love to give you an idea of what the lavs looked like. Then again, I was only in business class, I wasn't up front like you.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson

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