ConcordeLoss
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No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:08 pm

Why isn't there any direct American carriers to the Middle East? Even before 9/11.
TWA is the only one that I could think of, and its gone.

[Edited 2003-11-10 04:12:17]
"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
 
TWFirst
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:09 pm

Continental flies to Tel Aviv from EWR.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:11 pm

Israel doesn't count.

Signed,

The Arab World
 
AA7573E
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:14 pm

Delta flies to Mumbai, even though that is not really the Middle East. They also fly to Istanbul.

See you up front!
 
B747-437B
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:14 pm

Why isn't there any direct American carriers to the Middle East?

USAF had nonstop B-2 service from the US to Baghdad as late as April this year.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
USAFHummer
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:17 pm

TWA used to fly JFK-Cairo-Riyadh...

Greg
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MAH4546
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:17 pm

Istanbul is in Europe. The only US flag carrier service to the Middle East is Continental Airlines' to Tel Aviv. Before October 2001, Delta Airlines flew to Tel Aviv, Cairo (which is technically Africa), and Dubai and TWA/American flew to Cairo and Riyadh.
a.
 
chepos
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:18 pm

Before 9-11 Delta operated an MD-11 on the JFK-CAI-DXB route.

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Chepos
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UAL747
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:18 pm

Well, for one, I can almost guarantee you outside of perhaps Dubai, Cairo, and Tel Aviv, I doubt many Americans really feel comfortable flying to the middle east, let alone spending time there. Something called anti-Americanism is going on there, I think?

Could you imagine AA with their American flags sitting at Tehran? HA!

UAL747
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Korg747
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:19 pm

B747-437B , That's Not funny.


TWA was and probably would be the last company to serve the middle east.
Please excuse my English!
 
AA7573E
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:19 pm

Ask someone from Turkey if they are European. It is not a European destination.
See you up front!
 
AA7573E
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:20 pm

B747-437B

That is actually very funny!
See you up front!
 
MAH4546
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:24 pm

Ask someone from Turkey if they are European. It is not a European destination.

Istanbul is on the European continent. Istanbul is in Europe.
a.
 
gte439u
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:26 pm

I doubt that we are going to see any N###XX in the Middle East for sometime. The security risks are too great for US carriers to justify the flight.

However, NW did file with the DoT to offer serivce to Baghdad last summer, but this flight would probably be operated by KLM. DL, UA and AA still have rights to serve Iraq.
 
ei a330-200
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:27 pm

Actually, I think that B747-437B's comment was quite funny, and fairly accurate, and I find that Alpha 1's comment is not only ignorant, but foolish and childish. This is just another example of the rampant anti-semitsm that exists in the Middle East. If Michael Moore can say "Shame on you Mr. Bush" for his policies towards terrorists, then I say "Shame on you 'Arab World', shame on you!!!"
 
aa757first
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:31 pm

Funny, B747-437B  Smile.

Tower flew to Tel Aviv.


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nikibary
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:31 pm

B747-437B
That was slightly funny

I think TLV counts, CO is operating a 777 from EWR. And yes i doubt there would be other destination especialy since there are many European airlines that offer very good connections to the middle east.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:32 pm

and I find that Alpha 1's comment is not only ignorant, but foolish and childish.

Yada yada yada. I guess the truth hurts, doesn't it?

This is just another example of the rampant anti-semitsm that exists in the Middle East.

Anti Semitism? If anything, it should be construed as Anti-Arab, my friend, becuase if you look at my history on here, I support Israel. Better re-read what I wrote!!
 
BA
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:41 pm

MAH4546,

No, Istanbul is not just in Europe.

Istanbul is split between the European continent and the Asian continent by the Bosphorus Strait. So it is in both, Europe and Asia. Depending on what part of Istanbul you are in.




Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:56 pm

Turkey has filed an application with the European Union.

Anyway, I think countries like Turkey are referred to being in Eurasia as there really isn't a formal boundary that identifies the two continents.
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
Iberia340600
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:10 pm

I agree with Korg747....

B747-437B's comment was not amusing. But Im not gonna get political on here...not the time or the place.

Just my 2 cents.

Visca Barça!!
 
ConcordeLoss
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:10 pm

USAF had nonstop B-2 service from the US to Baghdad as late as April this year.

Very funny. What kinda ignorant arrogant comment is this?

When I asked the question, I had in mind DXB, but sure, let's open the floor to all the other places.
But please, let's stay out of politics.

[Edited 2003-11-10 06:17:27]
"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
 
Alpha 1
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:14 pm

Very funny. What kinda ignorant irrogant comment is this?

Why is it ignorant, may I ask? It's the truth, is it not? Some people just have no freakin' sense of humor.
 
Customs172
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:18 pm

I think its funny!! Dont forget the B-52s
 
airxliban
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:18 pm

take it from an ex-resident, while Istanbul is in europe, it is not really a European destination.

Istanbul's Ataturk Airport is in Yesilkoy which is on the european side. Most of istanbul is on the European side. in fact it is a very beautiful city with the bosphorus and all. 90% of what there is to see (istanbul wise) is on the European side.

The rest of Turkey is on the Asian side.

Alpha 1 and B747-437B's comments were accurate, if not necessarily funny to everyone.

Air Liban
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
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yyz717
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:18 pm

B747-437B was just making a harmless joke. It was kinda funny! Let's not take life too seriously.  Big grin

It looks unlikely that any US carrier will recommence service to the Arab Middle East anytime soon unfortunately. Although, we can look fwd to Emirates adding JFK in 2004.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jimbobjoe
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:21 pm

Well, the question specifically asks why no carriers direct to the middle east. Isn't the middle east just too far for a direct flight anyway?

Well, that's not true, I see that Saudi Arabian has a JED-JFK flight. However, it's pretty bloody long. I suspect that traffic volumes and the length of the flight probably make it easier to just have passengers routed through Europe on a codeshare, and then continuing onto the US (much like what is done with India.)
 
ConcordeLoss
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:23 pm

The thing about the not so harmless joke, is that people are dying over there on both sides, so I don't take that sort of thing lightly.
"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
 
phxmkeflyer
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:23 pm

Alpha1 and B747-437B........frickin HILARIOUS  Big grin
 
pouyazad
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:25 pm

Ual747,
I guarantee you cannot find Anti-Americanism among more than 85% of Iranians. Iran's sky and airports are safe. What causes American airlines not to have flight to Iran, is only political problems between governments. Before the revolution PAN AM had scheduled flights to Tehran. That's it!
 
airxliban
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:28 pm

so did Iran Air?

didn't they operate an SP Teheran-New York.

It looks like Air Canada might start flights to Beirut.

if american carriers were to operate to the middle east, they could remove markings on some planes.

for example on the A321s or 737s that Egypt Air flies to israel...they have blank tails and less markings.

at least i think so. BA, maybe you can verify this as we had a chat about it earlier.

Air Liban
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yyz717
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:40 pm

There is not alot of commerce betw the US and the Arab Middle East which limits the need for air travel.

JFK is one of those marquee cities that most national carriers aspire to serve, and with most Mideast carriers being govt-owned, the cache of JFK flights can perhaps take backseat to economic reality.

In other words, any US airline flights to the Middle East would be considered on commercial terms only. The Arab carriers flights to JFK may (or may not) make money but no doubt may be maintained for prestige reasons.

[Edited 2003-11-10 06:42:10]
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Sinlock
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:53 pm

In a attempt to answer the question.


1. Even though the U.S. has a fair size Arab population. It is very decentralized, there is no one area that has a large enough Arab population to fill the demand required by an airline to offer service.


2. Most Americans don't know enough about the Middle East, to know about the "hidden" wonders. Such as the ruins of Babylon or the Coastal resorts.
So the likelihood of an American going on vacation to play golf in Dubui is about as remote as someone from the UAE going on vacation to hike in Yosemite National Park.
(I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, Just it would not be first on their lists)







_________________________________________________________________
Political Answer. (Please don't flame me, it's just MY opinion)


3. Americans don't understand Arabs, Arabs don't understand Americans, Human Beings tend to fear what they don't understand.

 
JMChladek
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:04 pm

USAF had nonstop B-2 service from the US to Baghdad as late as April this year.

Would that really count as a nonstop though since the plane didn't land in Baghdad and instead just "delivered" cargo instead?  Big grin Its kind of like the old Jimmy Stewart joke in Strategic Air Command "One takeoff and one landing".

I thought both jokes were hilarious actually. I've heard much worse comments on this forum and held my tongue.

As for Iran, I think El Al also had service from Tel Aviv to Iran before the revolution. As far as "North American" continent flights to the Middle East, I believe that the Canadian carriers still fly to destinations such as Beirut. Considering Beirut's progress over the past decade, I wonder how long it will be until an American carrier does offer service to that destination. BTW, what about flights to the Middle East from American based cargo airlines like Fed Ex?
 
airxliban
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:05 pm

well, there are said to be a lot of arabs in general in detroit. a lot of iraqis in san diego. Maybe Iraqi airways could get an A340-500 and start operates to Lindbergh field.

A lot of lebanese in los angeles.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:08 pm

Mexico City has a large Lebanese population. If AM got 777s like they plan to and started MEX-BEY service, would that count? After all, Mexico is part of North America, so technically, AM is an "American" carrier.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:25 pm

1) USAF had nonstop B-2 service from the US to Baghdad as late as April this year. - Hilarious comment on sometimes all too serious boards

2) I think its funny!! Dont forget the B-52s - I'm sorry, but they didn't offer direct nonstop service from the continental US to Baghdad.

3) I'm assuming y'all are not including codeshares in this, since through its Skyteam Partnership Delta technically flies to AMM and, I believe, KWI.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Customs172
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:28 pm

OK so they had a short stop over in Diego Garcia...... Oh forget it... I wasn't thinking again.
 
ConcordeLoss
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:39 pm

I know that FedEx has regular flights to DXB.
"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
 
danielbk
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:44 pm

FedEx also has daily flights to Tel Aviv.. but, i guess it doesn't count.
cockpit? it's that little room in the front of the plane where the pilots seat.. but that's not important now
 
TWAL1011
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:52 pm

I guess most Americans have no interest in travel to the Middle East. Those who would want to get there are probably VFR and are able to fly via Europe or direct on Royal Jordanian. Also our large Jewish population is served well by El Al as well as Continental which is a US Carrier and its 777 nonstop from EWR to TLV.

As an American, I am not that comfortable with aircraft of Middle Eastern countries in our airspace. Esp. after 9/11 and Egypt Air.
 
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scbriml
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:03 pm

There is not alot of commerce betw the US and the Arab Middle East which limits the need for air travel.

YYZ717, one small word - OIL. Every BA and EK flight I've taken to the Middle-East this year (all in business class) has been full. Half the population of business class are US businessmen - they all work in the oil industry.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
ConcordeLoss
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:49 am

There is plenty of business in Middle East, especially in the Gulf region.
I recently read on CNN's website that there is about 30,000 Americans and 35,000 British citizens living in Saudi Arabia, and I am sure there are as many people, if not more, in the UAE, Qatar, and so on.

Also, Dubai has the GITEX Exhibition almost every year which is one of the top computer exhibitions in the world, and there is a high volume of western visitors for that and the Dubai shopping festival that takes place in April of every year.

And that's not including events in other countries, or even other cities.


I have visited a lot of the so called "Anti-American" countries several times, and guess what? They're not overtly Anti-American in the way the media portrays them.
I even have a friend whose dad worked for the US Air Force (and for those of you who don't know, that's MILITARY) in different bases in the Middle East. All he had to say, as well as the rest of the family who had lived there with him about those Anti-American people is how helpful/friendly/generous to him they were.

So people, go read the news or world events before giving us that Anti-Americanism BS, because we are definitely carrying it way overboard. And let's think outside the box for once.


"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:06 am

Dubai is an awesome place, with tourism growing something like 20% a year. I'm American and was very comfortable living in the neighborhood for over 2 years. There are lots of Americans living there as it's the regional HQ for alot of American multinational corporations. Unfortunately the Delta service didn't last very long, if it ever started at all, because of 9/11. However, Dubai tourism can continue to grow without American visitors, as its beach resorts, nightlife and shopping are highly attractive to visitors from Europe. Nearby Abu Dhabi lost alot of its direct service after 9/11 for economic reasons but still gets alot of business travelers. Until EK starts direct flights, it's quite easy for us Americans to visit Dubai with any one of a number of European airlines like BA, LH, AF, KL, and LX that offer quick connections through their hubs. Dubai and Abu Dhabi are nothing like Saudi Arabia, Iraq or even Kuwait and I think they are a true model for a modern Arab society, and they did it themselves, not at gunpoint.
 
mandala499
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:22 am

*** Humour Section***
Well, the topic says American Carriers direct to the middle east... Err, aren't the aircraft carriers there... it went non-stop no? Big grin

***Serious Section***

But seriously... Define Direct? Non Stop ? or a through flight?
The only "Middle Eastern" Destination regularly served by US carriers on a those categories is TLV...

I think this is because of the risks of going to those countries... Since the 80s, the middle east has been avoided it seems... maybe because of Beirut, the Iran revolution and the ever-repeating Arab-Israeli conflict.

*Still remember the images of the TWA hijacking to Beirut... and lucky to have flown TWA to Cairo*...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
COSPN
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:20 pm

TLV is in the Middle East..I think many wish it was not..but it is..Arabs do live in Israel and fly on CO out of TLV , I think they like it better than El AL.. CO has Arabic sub-titles on the flights and the CTO was in East Jeruselem to serve the Arab section of the city..TLV is the first logical step for a US carrier to the Middle east..Hopefully the secont TLV flight can resume at some time. soon..
 
sevenair
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Why Noone Questioning Why No Mideast Airline To US

Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:20 pm

IT seems that this is, unsurprisingly turning into a 'lets bash america' thing, which is so outdated, and quite frankly, boring. Lets discuss why no Mideast airlines dont serve US direct,
PS, im not into politics, and not interested in your political views, so kindly refrain from bashing my comments
 
Guest

RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:33 pm

The mid east already hates us to the point they fly our airplanes into buildings. Why would any US Airline with half a brain put a flight into the terrorists back yard?
 
cicadajet
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:54 pm

"Lets discuss why no Mideast airliners don't serve US direct"

Is that meant to be a double-negative? Plenty of Mid East carriers serve the US Direct.

Tom
 
ARCJET
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RE: No American Carriers Direct To The Middle East?

Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:22 am

USAF C-17s offer daily nonstops to ORBS from EDDF. If you like sitting with your back to the wall of the aircraft and box lunches this is the way to go.
Charleston, SC

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