MEA321
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Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sat Nov 15, 2003 12:50 pm

Beirut International Airport is in the testing phase for an ILS for runway 3. The ILS will give pilots a more precision approach to the under bad weather conditions, as opposed to the VOR 03 approach from the Khaldeh (112.6) VOR which was previously in use. According to the Jeppensen NOTAM the ILS will be in testing up until December 14.

http://socrates.jeppesen.com/download/cht_notam/mes04.pdf

For those who don't understand what I just wrote above...Beirut's Airport is becoming more safe and aircraft will have an easier time landing in cloudy weather.  Smile
MEA321
 
BA
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:43 pm

Runway 03 already has a CAT I ILS, perhaps they are upgrading it to a CAT II or CAT IIIA/B/C?

I know the ILS on runway 03 has been having problems and I think was turned off for quite some time. Perhaps they just fixed it or decided to replace it with a new ILS.

Runway 18 and runway 21 also both have CAT I ILS.

Runway 17 has CAT III ILS since it is the most used runway when it comes to landings.

Only 35 and 36 do not have an ILS because landings are not allowed on those ends because they are too close to the mountains.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:52 pm

I just spoke to a friend of mine in Beirut and he told me that runway 03 has always had a CAT I ILS, but it's been having lots of problems lately.

So it looks like they are finally fixing it. Thanks for the update!

I assume they are upgrading it to at least CAT II or possibly CAT III so it can have autoland capability.

Possibly an airline that is considering serving Beirut in the future requested that the ILS be fixed before it starts service...

Who knows...

Runway 03 is only used for landings when the wind is coming from the north which isn't very common (usually only in bad weather). Most of the time, the wind is always coming from the south which is why runway 17 is the most heavily used runway.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
A320FO
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:38 pm

BA,
I have no info of 17 having a CAT III ILS. I just checked my route documentation, which shows that all ILS equipped runways have a CAT I minimum only.
But the current CAT I minimum on all runways are quite high, averaging 400 feet above ground (AGL) on the "new" runways 03 and 17, and about 500 feet AGL on "old" 18. Also visibility requirements are higher than the basic CAT I minimum of 200 feet AGL and 550m visibility. This might well be due to the terrain on the eastern side of the airport, requiring the fairly high minimum due to obstacle clearance in case of missed approach.

Maybe the airport is now trying to get the minimum of the newer runways down to the basic CAT I minimum to improve availability in case of severe weather conditions?
 
OD720
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:43 pm

In any case, visibility at BEY is relatively good all year roung, even when we get heavy showers. But I think 17 is CAT III, not that it is necessary at all.
 
MEA310
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:26 pm

Isn't rwy21 also used during heavy rains & winds?Incoming traffic flies over the city(right over my house);that was the case last monday when we had some showers & winds. Any clarification?

MEA310
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:43 am

A320FO,

I think your documentation has incorrect info because this information is according to an air traffic controller who works for Beirut.

I also remember when runway 17 opened, they were talking so highly about it saying it is the first runway with autoland capabilities in Lebanon.

As I'm sure you know, CAT I doesn't support autoland so since they say it has autoland capabilities, it has to be at least CAT II.

But according to an air traffic controller, it has CAT III.

All of the other runways have CAT I though. Maybe with this runway 03 upgrade, it'll have CAT II or even CAT III.

I'll try to find out.

MEA310,

Yes they do. Runway 21 is equipped with CAT I which in most cases is sufficient. CAT II or CAT III would be nice to have, but very expensive, and not necessary on all the runways.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
A320FO
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:13 am

BA,
I hope my documentation is up to date, as we use it to fly to Beirut (though currently suspended for winter, we'll be back with daily flights in summer!), but I stand to be corrected.
Maybe the ILS system on RWY 17 itself is technically capable of CAT III operations (a monitoring and reliability issue), but due to terrain around the airport the runway itself cannot support CAT III ops, due to obstacle clearance requirements.

A320FO
 
MEA310
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:13 am

I'm visiting the airport's tower next week hopefully,I'll try and come back with some useful information,&if possible photos.

MEA310
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:38 am

A320FO,

Maybe the ILS system on RWY 17 itself is technically capable of CAT III operations (a monitoring and reliability issue), but due to terrain around the airport the runway itself cannot support CAT III ops, due to obstacle clearance requirements.

Terrain?



Not a single building, or a grain of sand lies infront of runway 17. Just the Mediterranean sea.  Smile

It's a shame that Austrian Airlines was downgraded to only summer seasonal. It used to be year-round and in the summer would operate daily (rest of the year would be 5x weekly).

But this summer it was only 3x weekly and 2x weekly later on in the summer.

Regards

[Edited 2003-11-16 00:44:11]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
yegbey01
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:55 am

BA,

OS will restart service in May with 2X weekly. The servive will increase to 5X in June and will become daily in July.

Sad.. I know.. but it's just the nature of the BEY market. Very low demand from NA and Europe during the winter.

 
BA
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:36 am

BEY is weakest in the winter, true.

The route was downgraded to seasonal as a result of the war in Iraq. Hopefully one day soon it will return to year-round.

Any idea if when it returns next summer, the intention is to operate it year-round?

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MEA321
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:21 am

Thank you for that clarification BA, your information is greatly appreciated!

When I flew to Beirut two years ago on Alitalia I talked to the captain after the flight. The landing was on runway 3. In the cockpit he showed me the approach plate, it was (and I clearly remember) a published VOR procedure. VOR 03, using the Khaldeh VOR.

However, I didn't know that runway 3 had a CAT I ILS, that is completely new to me. It looks like the NOTAM for BEY must be indicating that the ILS is either being repaired or upgraded!
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yegbey01
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:27 am

First flight is scheduled for May 15 (2X).

Jumps to 3 flights the week after. Junps to 5 flights seconf week of June.

And then 6 flights a week the latter part of June and the last week of June it becomes daily.

By the end of September the service is then downgraded tro 3X per week. By November of next year, they will probably drop it again.

OS used to pick up a lot of passengers from Eatsren Europe and from Scandinavia. Now that Snowflake is operating to BEY, I guess there will be quite a bit of pressure on loads and yields. But you never know, still too early to see what they will do next year.



 
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 11:47 am

You're welcome MEA321.

Yegbey01,

I assume if they are planning to operate the route on a daily basis during the summer, then they probably are planning to operate the route year-round in the winter but on a reduced frequency obviously.

I'm just guessing. I hope they operate it next winter.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
salim
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:50 pm

"Maybe the ILS system on RWY 17 itself is technically capable of CAT III operations (a monitoring and reliability issue), but due to terrain around the airport the runway itself cannot support CAT III ops, due to obstacle clearance requirements."
You are right. this what a mea pilot, head of safety, told me. But the runway cannot support CATIII ops due to obstacle, but due to strong interferences comming from the city.

 
MEA321
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:20 am

Any ILS system, whether CATI, II, or III can experience interference. In Beirut itself and down through Bir Hasssan along the final approach path coast there are several embassies that line the coast. Just from looking at these embassies you can see huge satellites and radio antennas on top of those buildings.

FM radio and satellite interference are major concerns for an ILS system. It doesnt affect the ILS for runway 17 extrememly, but it can prevent a CAT III ILS from supporting autoland capabilities. Any interference can cause an inaccuracy, and when you have a decision height of zero, there is no room for inaccuracy!

Besides that, this image will depict other causes of interference  Smile

MEA321
 
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:55 am

Salim,

Thanks for that info. Long time no speak!  Smile

I hope they some how work out the issue about the interference regarding the ILS for runway 17.

CAT III is quickly becomming a standard for modern airports and an airport with CAT III capabilities is very attractive to any airline that wants to use Beirut as a transitting stop or as a hub or whatever.

I hope they can somehow try to work out the issue.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MEA310
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:32 pm

I know this topic might've ended,but I was wondering if rwy3 is already in use now with the CAT III installed? Because just a while ago I've been spotting planes approaching according to a new path,higher altitude..I was supposed to visit the tower today but something came up & had to cancel it.

Any info?

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MEA321
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:10 am

MEA310

According to the Mediterranean NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) the ILS for runway 03 is being either worked on, or upgraded. It does not say specifically. There was some speculation in this forum that CAT III was being installed. If this was the case then it would not be operational until December 14.

It takes a lot of time for testing and certificating for a new ILS system. However, a CAT III as opposed to a CAT I or II would not necessarily give a higher glide slope path. I will research to see if there were any updates to the aeronautical information for BEY.

MEA321

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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:46 am

MEA310,

Exactly how does one visit the control tower? Can you simply make an appointment and ask to visit it? If so...then that's on my agenda for my next visit to Beirut.  Smile

Regarding runway 03. Before this upgrade, I know it was CAT I. All of BEY's runways are CAT I except for runway 17 which is CAT III but not certified for it due to interference from the city (I confirmed this by the way).

I assume they are at least upgrading runway 03 to a CAT II ILS. Maybe even CAT III, who knows.

But I can tell you that CAT III is extremely expensive, so if they go for CAT II, that's plenty enough.

Does anyone know how often runway 21 is used for landings?

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MEA310
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RE: Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3

Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:11 am

BA

My friend's relative works at the tower,he managed to let us in.I'm not sure if anyone can get through without any "connections".I'll make sure to get some info as soon as I visit the airport.

MEA310
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