cancidas
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US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:08 am

us US Air transitioning to an all airbus fleet or are they going to keep boeing aircraft around? i remember hearing something about them taking deliveries of A330s to replace the 767s. is this true? also, coulf they be a potential A318 customer?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:18 am

The A332s will eventually take over the tasks currently performed by 762ERs.

Doubtful US will be interested in A318, as some of the RJs its ordering can handle any such market it'd need A318s for in its current route system.
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iflyatldl
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:41 am

Yeah, if anything we will see more RJ's with US and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they go with Airbus and replace the 762ER's. They seem really happy with the 330. Also what about the 757's? At one time, wasn't one of the big selling points of the 757 to US was the commonality to the 767ER they inherited from Piedmont ?
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Benjamin
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:46 am

Somewhat ironic, isn't it?? US Airways with an all Airbus fleet? Not trying to start a war!!!
 
tommy767
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:48 am

It definitely seems the USAirways is striving for an all Airbus fleet, considering that they're 737's are disappearing rapidly. Also, USAirways is not taking too much pride in updating the 762's that they have, which were mostly from piedmont, delivered in the Mid 1980s. They're 757s are a mix, but 7 are former Eastern delivered in the Early 80s. Some of there 737s were additionally former piedmont's.
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iflyatldl
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:51 am

I hate to say it, Airbus just offered US a better package. I agree, IT IS Ironic, but business is business.
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
rockyracoon
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:53 am

I can't believe their going to opt for the a321 over the far superior 757. It sure is a shame.

Tim

[Edited 2003-11-17 01:54:36]
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:59 am

They got into a tiff w/ Boeing over an accident involving a 767 or a 737 (can't remember). Boeing basically blamed them, USAir blamed Boeing, all around bad blood follows, etc. so they decide to go all Airbus. If anything the bankruptcy sped up their fleet rationalization (DC9s gone in a jiffy, 737s going faster, 757s being retired in favor of A321s, etc.)
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:01 am

I hate to say it, Airbus just offered US a better package

Bet the squabble over US427 had something to do with that...?  Insane


I can't believe their going to opt for the a321 over the far superior 757


US's older 752s, while still great at what they do, cannot match the specifications of more modern 752s (e.g., CO's).... therefore, the performance gap, while still existent, is not as pronounced.
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usairways85
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:12 am

well for now, nothing is dissapperaing rapidly. With the fleet count at 279 and no new narrow-body deliveries for at least 3 or 4 years, the 737's and 757's will be in the fleet for at least 5 years down the road. The 737's will eventually be replaced by a combination of the 319 and the EMB 170. The first to go will probably be the 762's. They will start to be replaced by the 332 when they start arriving in 2006. But you never know US may choose to hang on to a few 762's to operate to caribbean or extra runs to florida.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:22 am

US's older 752s, while still great at what they do, cannot match the specifications of more modern 752s (e.g., CO's).... therefore, the performance gap, while still existent, is not as pronounced.

All I have to say is...

??
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:34 am

...not that tough of a concept really  Big grin
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A330323X
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:05 am

Just because a carrier gets rid of their Boeings doesn't make them all-Airbus. There are other aircraft manufacturers out there, you know.  Smile

The 762's will be replaced by 332's. The 752's will be replaced by 32X's. But it looks like the early money is on the 733's and 734's being replaced by EMB-190/195's. That would make the mainline fleet EMB-170/175, EMB-190/195, A32X, and A330. But none of this fleet renewal is going to happen anytime soon. They're concentrating their time and money on the EMB-170/175. (The only thing to happen in the near future is the possible addition of a few B733/734's or (secondhand) A319/320 to replace the Airbus aircraft that have run out of time for their heavy checks. Additionally, US has been planning on reconfiguring the 757 fleet to F8/Y189 to serve the low-yield LAS and Florida markets, but that has been put on hold pending the resolution of the Airbus heavy check issues.) It's possible that they could get some secondhand widebodies in the near future to add more European destinations. If they did that, look for them to retire narrowbodies to keep the fleet count at 279.

US has 10 A332's and 19 A32X's on order, to start arriving in 2007. Any 737 replacements would happen after that.
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iflyatldl
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:30 am

Look guys- Not trying to start a Airbus vs. Boeing war, but my gutt just tells me that they are going with the best financial option on the table, given the straights they're in. They are SINKING ! And so what if they're grabbing for an inflatable women instead of a liferaft ? That's been their thought process all along.....Instead of biting the bullet, they go for the quick fix. Again, again and again. They took a perfectly profitable airline(Piedmont) and squandered every asset it had to offer. I wonder what would have happened if PI had bought US ? But, that's another thread. And Airbus is only to happy to offer what US thinks it needs. You know- the shiny thing at the end of the string ?
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
ouboy79
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:31 pm

767-200s - Replaced with the A330-200s in a couple years.
757-200s - Replaced by the 321s
737-300s & -400s - Replaced by the Embraer 195s

You'll see the Airbus fleet dispatched to higher yeild and/or longer stage lengths that the 170/190 family can't handle. Current order book has US taking 40-45 170s over the next 18-24 months.

In the near term, don't be shocked to see other 320s or 733s pulled out of the desert to fill in for timed out aircraft. Also the company has been looking at the used A330 market for an appealing opportunity to pick up some more lift or at least 767 replacements quicker.
 
Tiger119
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:14 pm

Ok, help me here. I know next to nothing about Airbus aircraft (other than model numbers and what American companies fly what model) but I was curious. Do the different Airbus aircraft lines have compatible parts? Do A&Ps have to have additional, special training for each different line? Reason I ask is if US is trying to dump their Boeing Equipment, maybe it is a "cost issue."
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:41 pm

"...not that tough of a concept really"


ConcordeBoy: Even the concept of gravity could be tough to grasp if you clarified it like you did that one. Could you maybe drop your arrogance and sarcasm and state what you meant in a clearer manner, is that really all that difficult?

****

On the point of US going to an all airbus fleet, the 'US' pun really illustrates that economics and price are really greater than most national or past ties with a company. Just look at Air France ordering 773ER.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:46 pm

USAirways flies a 767-200 from PHL-MCO and another between CLT-MCO. Do you think that the A332 will do those routes in the future or will the A332 be strictly for Trans Atlantic?
 
behramjee
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:08 pm

Arent the A 319 and A 320 better replacements for B 733s and B 734s...seating capacity is nearly the same...only thing is that the range is greater of the Airbus's.
 
NKP S2
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:55 pm

Tiger119 inquires: "Ok, help me here. I know next to nothing about Airbus aircraft (other than model numbers and what American companies fly what model) but I was curious. Do the different Airbus aircraft lines have compatible parts?"

--Yes, very much so, but not EVERYthing. It should be noted though, that the 737 has lots of part commonality as well.

"Do A&Ps have to have additional, special training for each different line?"

--Yes, there are some systems differences between the narrowbody "bus" types that must be noted.

"Reason I ask is if US is trying to dump their Boeing Equipment, maybe it is a "cost issue."

-- EVERYthing in this business is a "cost issue". While I do not feel that there is presently a plan to "dump" the Boeings as such, phasing out is a more plausible scenario. They are still good reliable planes. Much more to corporate decisions than tangible issues though.
 
jeckPDX
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:01 pm

It makes perfect sense for US to convert to an all airbus fleet since the a320/330/340 family all share the same cockpit. This way US can save money by not having to cross qualify its pilots on different types of aircraft. This commonality will allow all US pilots to operate any of the airbus equipment saving them mucho$$$$$
-JECK
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flyLAX
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:47 pm

"the a320/330/340 family all share the same cockpit."

"commonality"

ConcordeBoy Ill leave this one to you.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:43 pm

I don't see why US Airways operating an all-Airbus fleet is ironic, any more than LOT operating an all-Boeing fleet. Its just machinery after all, you buy what you need from whichever supplier provides the machine best suited to your requirements at the price you want to pay. That's globalisation, baby.
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NKP S2
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 6:00 pm

"I don't see why US Airways operating an all-Airbus fleet is ironic, any more than LOT operating an all-Boeing fleet. Its just machinery after all, you buy what you need from whichever supplier provides the machine best suited to your requirements at the price you want to pay."

True...in theory. The machinations beyond the theory that affect a purchase decision ( whether A or B...or whoever ) have more influence than most would care to admit.

"That's globalisation, baby."

Just a paradigmally concious buzzword, and that's all it's ever been.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:18 pm

I think what Benjamin meant was because the name of the airline is "USAirways" it is not flying a U.S. built fleet. It was because of the name in general. Continental, Delta, United or Northwest wouldn't sound so Ironic as USAirways or American flying an all Airbus fleet.
 
Benjamin
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:30 pm

I think what Benjamin meant was because the name of the airline is "USAirways" it is not flying a U.S. built fleet. It was because of the name in general. Continental, Delta, United or Northwest wouldn't sound so Ironic as USAirways or American flying an all Airbus fleet.

Yes, thank you. That is what I meant.
 
B747FAN
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:56 pm

What about US's 747 fleet. Is it possible that they will replace them with the A340 or the A380

They will need some aircraft capable of handling their ultra long haul pacific routes.

) He turns not back who is bound to a star. - Leonardo Da Vinci.
 
manni
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:36 am

US's 747 fleet? Long Haul Pacific routes? I guess you're mixing up with United.
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gigneil
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:05 am

but my gutt just tells me that they are going with the best financial option on the table

They picked Airbus well before their current financial situation.

--Yes, very much so, but not EVERYthing. It should be noted though, that the 737 has lots of part commonality as well

The Airbus line shares parts and practices across the entire FBW fleet. The A330 and A320 are remarkably similar in systems.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:49 am

"commonality"

ConcordeBoy Ill leave this one to you.


All I'll say is that commonality isnt worth 11 letters if you cant get a specified degree of performance out the common type.

That's why B6 turned its nose up at the A318.



Could you maybe drop your arrogance and sarcasm and state what you meant in a clearer manner, is that really all that difficult?

Sure I could... but for you it'd actually be easier to try opening your mind before opening your yap, thereby not making a mountain out of a molehill  Big grin

As for what I was saying: the tasks performed by older 757s with shorter range/lower MTOW are more wholely covered (to acceptable specifications) by the A321, than would be the performance specs of newer 757s with more range/better engines/higher MTOW/etc (should US have actually had any).
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USAFHummer
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:04 am

ConcordeBoy, I too am puzzled over this statement in reply 8 of this thread:

"US's older 752s, while still great at what they do, cannot match the specifications of more modern 752s (e.g., CO's).... therefore, the performance gap, while still existent, is not as pronounced." Im curious to see a clarification of exactly what this means as well...

Greg
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:14 am

Hummer, you're normally a straight talker and actually worth taking the time to clarify for... but considering that I do so about 20min before you posted, I'm curious as to if you actually read reply #29?  Big grin

If so, what further would ya like me to clarify?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
IslandHopper
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RE: When Did Virgin's Planes First Get PTVs?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:21 am

Does USAir still fly any MD80s?
 
USAFHummer
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:25 am

Sorry, its been a really long day even though Ive been up for just 3 hours ConcordeBoy, only read the top half of that post for some reason...anyways the A321/757 debate is no longer an issue really since the 757's are being reconfigured to a higher capacity with only 8 F seats (down from 24), and more coach seats (dont have the exact figure) to better serve the extremely high density routes to Florida (the A321 seats 169, and currently the US 752's seat 182, I imagine the reconfig will kick that up to about 190), and the A321 will be relegated to transcons mostly...

US's MD-80's are all gone in response to reply 32...dont have the exact dates but its been about 18 months or so..my last US MD-80 flight was 11/01 and the retirement was a few months after that...

Greg

[Edited 2003-11-17 18:36:18]
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ScottB
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:41 am

The DC-9's were actually gone *before* 9/11/01 -- their last revenue flights for US were August 18, 2001. The MD-80's had been scheduled (as of mid-2001) to be retired by the end of 2002; they last flew in March or early April 2002, meaning that (1) their retirement pre-dated the US Airways Group bankruptcy and (2) the events of 9/11 and the poor economy only accelerated the retirement of the MD-80's by several months.

All of US' 737-200 fleet (42 airframes) had been flying as Metrojet by September 2001; the airline had already proposed (as of August 2001, when "Plan B" was announced after the failure of the UAL-U merger) reducing the Metrojet fleet by a bit over 40% absent further concessions by employees. And in any case, by the time US ended Metrojet service in December 2001, the average age of that fleet was nearly 20 years -- the aircraft were nearly completely depreciated. This was also pre-bankruptcy.

Moreover, the F100's were also retired during Spring, 2002; again, this was several months before the company's Chapter 11 filing. This was probably the only fleet whose retirement was significantly accelerated by the company's financial troubles; the F100's were, on average, about 12 years old at the time. Chapter 11 was helpful in that the company was able to reject the mortgages/leases on this fleet (most of the F100's were owned).

Additionally, US had already reached an agreement with Airbus (in August 2001) to defer its 2003 narrowbody deliveries to 2005 through 2009. In late 2001, US deferred most of its 2002 Airbus deliveries, agreeing to take only nine A321's in 2002.

Interestingly, the company had already planned (as part of "Plan B") to reconfigure its 757-200's with fewer F seats for Florida service and to deploy its A321's for transcons. The plan after 9/11 but before bankruptcy was for the fleet to number 315 aircraft (down from 420 in July 2001). While most of the aircraft rejected by US were in the 757/767 and 737-300/400 fleets, US also rejected about 11 A320-family airliners in bankruptcy as well to reach their current fleet count of 279 (though a few of these are in storage due to the company's attempt to outsource Airbus S-checks in violation of its contracts with its mechanics). Also, the "Midatlantic Airways" plan was part of Plan B, but those aircraft were called "mainline regional jets" at the time.

While US Airways has significantly reduced capacity (by over 30%) since September 11, it is important to note that they had increased capacity by nearly 25% between 1996 and 2001.
 
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solnabo
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:24 am

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tekelberry
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:41 am

Arent the A 319 and A 320 better replacements for B 733s and B 734s...seating capacity is nearly the same...only thing is that the range is greater of the Airbus's.

Aren't you forgetting about the 737NGs?
 
DeltaRules
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RE: US AIR: All Airbus?

Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:43 am

The thing is that not all of their 757s are "old"...around 20 were delivered new between 1993-1995.

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