joleb
Posts: 248
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Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:22 am

why did Singapore airlines didn't install First Class on their brand new A345

isnt it the longest route where this would be needed the most???

Emirates installed First Suites so why no First on SIA?
 
gigneil
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:22 am

I agree, I think SIA was crazy on this.

They said they couldn't fit their first class product on board.

I say bullshit.

N
 
Sydscott
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:37 am

This was SIA's plan from the very beginning with their A340-500's. They planned point to point services like Singapore-LAX non stop targeting primarily Business customers and therefore having the biggest business class possible whilst squeezing in some economy people down the back. They never intended to have a first class on these planes and they have stuck to it.
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:48 am

Weight issues. They want to make sure that the aircarft can operate nonstop year round. Installing F would involve putting in heavier seats (and yes, I know there'll be less seats though), along with one extra galley, one extra lavatory, one extra set of catering equipment and amenities, among others. FYI the weight of SQ's catering equipment, relative to other airlines, is pretty staggering.

SQ often gets a lot of flak from customers when advertised nonstop services have to make a tech stop during certain times of the year, and they are sensitive about it. FYI in winter the 744 SQ1 SFO-HKG and SQ29 LAX-TPE (when it was 744) often have to tech stop somewhere, and paxs are not too happy. Same happened in the 80s when SQ321 LHR-SIN was a "nonstop" 743 making frequent tech stops in KUL.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:19 am

Go to SIA´s webpage and read about
the "Raffles Class", guess that´s what
they called its 1st class in A345LS....
 Insane
Michael/SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Benjamin
Posts: 422
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:22 am

Go to SIA´s webpage and read about
the "Raffles Class", guess that´s what
they called its 1st class in A345LS....


Wrong. Raffles Class is their name for Business Class. They call first class First Class.
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:22 pm

SQ will eventually be taking off First Class from all its cabins. It's still a long way away.. but it will happen soon.

The A345s flight journeys are mostly at night, and SQ feels that most people just want to sleep. So they made their aircrafts just that. Board. Eat a meal. Watch a movie. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep. Wake. Arrive. Goodbye.

Never mind the weight issue. 18 First Class seats could have made way for even say 12 First Class seats. The cost of each First Class ticket would have made more than each Business Class seat lost.

MAYBE SQ might think of putting it on the SIN-JFK route. But for the time being. NO.
 
sllevin
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:28 pm

I have to think that SQ looked at their numbers and decided that they could end up with a greater amount of net revenue from the larger business class cabin. Also, in the end, I believe they will be charging a premium for the non-stop flights, and perhaps they felt that the cost of the "premium" first class would be too high to really generate a good marketshare.

I think the Premium Economy product is most interesting, and I certainly wish it success!

Steve
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:55 pm

First Class only has healthy loads on a small number of routes, hence the preponderence of two-class 777s, the first being delivered starting in 1998.

10+ years ago there were rumours that top management was re-evaluating First Class on certain routes, but a quick decision was made to keep F in all aircraft so that people could have "something to aspire to". The 340s were configured with F because of this, but by the time the 777s were ordered things had changed.
 
Qantasclub
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:07 pm

I agree with Sllevin. This is going to be a critical route for SQ. It's not that big a plane and the emphasis will be on trying the find the best configuration that is going to put bums on seats! Raffles class spacebeds are going to have to do.
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
United Airline
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:13 pm

SQ will eventually be taking off First Class from all its cabins. It's still a long way away.. but it will happen soon

I don't think they will remove First Class from ALL its cabins. They will at least keep some of them. Let's say the B 747-400 ones, which they have just finished installing First Suite seats not long ago. They need a first class product to compete with Cathay Pacific.

Do they have plans to install First Class on their A 380s?????
 
aussie747
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:21 pm

"Evolution Sign of the times"
For instance QF has several routes in the world that do not operate it's first class product, it is a sign of the times especially now that with some airlines their business class product has sleeper beds, and their product is better than their first class product was 10 years ago, talk about evolution!!
 
United Airline
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:33 pm

Yeah but QF has also improved their First Class product and many of their flights will still have first class seats.

I think there is still a need/market for First Class seats. It is possible that an airline generates a profit through careful yield management.  Smile
 
behramjee
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:36 pm

First class on SQ is definitely needed on routes to LHR-FRA-LAX-SFO-NRT-HKG-SYD-MEL-PVG-ICN and PEK where there are many RICH dudes and good F class potential all year around!
 
United Airline
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:49 pm

Yup. But the B 747-400 is the only fleet type equipped with First Suites. Right??? (Correct me if I am wrong).
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:14 am

Yes you are right on that one...
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
joleb
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:04 am

dont tell me people or companies wouldn t shelve out between 5000 and 10000 dollars for a 18 hour flight because some companies do so for a 6hour and above flight.
its an 18 hour flight remember? don't tell me their won't be any people flying First on that route. even if they would only install 8 seats (2 rows) i am sure many people and companies want the privacy of a small cabin to work in exclusivity and to even gather with 2 for dinner and talk about work or whatever and not in a cabin of 40 or 50 business class seats where it is definetely different.

SIA First class is the best in the sky believe me nobody can beat that. they pamper you from the first moment you arrive at the airport till you leave at your destination
 
United Airline
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:18 am

Cathay Pacific has a similar product......
 
joleb
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:01 pm

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:50 am

Cathay is also belonging to one of the best in the sky!
 
Sydscott
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RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:13 am


Thought you guys mike liekto know the routes that Emirates is planning for their A340-500's

http://www.tradingroom.com.au/news_research/index.jsp?section=finance_wire&page=/data/news_research/published/index/2003/11/20/FFXM7B4N7ND.html

In a nutshell the report lists Sydney, Melbourne, New York and San Francisco as their destinations.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:25 am

Hope EK will resolve the dispute with the FAA in time.

N
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:11 pm

Joleb, I have to agree with you on that......

However one has top remember that the gap between F and J are getting closer and closer. I just did SQ220, a flight in the past that was packed in F everytime I fly this route, but today only 3 passengers in F, while J, as always, is packed with only 10 seats left.

I think airlines won't be stupid to remove F if it gains a promising profit, and obviously enough, the importance of F is declining after introduction of beds in J. The main difference that J can never beat F is the privacy and comfortness that the cabin provides, which to a lot of people, is not worth paying for that extra money just for that privateness!

Well SQ would have no competetion for now on the SIN - LAX non-stop route. For passengers who insist in flying F, they could always choose the other flight that goes via Narita, while J passengers could have another option. Afterall if people are willing to pay for flying in F, they probably won't mind the extra 2-3 hours of flighttime!


 
ted747
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:28 am

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:28 pm

Talking of QF and their F class product. They now only offer F class cabins on routes to SIN, LHR, HKG, LAX and JFK. All other routes such as CDG, NRT and JHB etc only offer a two class cabin on their 747-400.

t.
 
ScottB
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:44 pm

Actually, I imagine one reason that we've seen many airlines shifting away from offering first class in favor of larger business sections has to do with travel policies at major corporations. Many companies are willing to put their employees in J class for long-hauls, but will not pay for a ticket in F. Moreover, those tickets in F aren't much cheaper than just chartering a jet for yourself.

My guess is that the SIN-LAX non-stops will be aimed largely at business travelers looking for the quickest way between the U.S. and Singapore (with its large manufacturing sector). With that in mind, a large business class section makes sense.

Given the likely need to restrict weight in one direction, the premium economy offering also makes sense -- it has the potential to enhance yields and make this very long flight the preferred alternative.
 
SM777
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:47 pm

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:20 pm

Dear all

Check out the microsite on :

http://A345LeaderShip.singaporeair.com

Gives you the details of the A345 (SQ is calling it the "LeaderShip") and also has the seat map etc. PLUS a chance to win a seat on the flight !!

Check the seat map - almost half the acft is J-class (Raffles Class) which makes it eminently clear which kind of traveler is being targeted, and for good reason. Why waste space with F-class seats which would rarely be occupied?

cheers!
 
United Airline
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:24 pm

Most QF 744s have first class.
 
9V-SVE
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 7:51 pm

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:00 pm

Most QF 744s have first class.

10 744s (OJA-OJJ) have 2 classes, while 11 (OJK-OJU) have 3 classes. Hardly a difference.

BTW Cathay is also throwing out F on their A343s.
 
senliture
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 5:28 pm

RE: Why Did SIA Didn't Install First Class On A345

Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:37 pm

Different airliners have different points of view. EK aims to be the best of the best in the world. They have money and their customers are rich.
Using the SIN-LAX route as an example, if a very rich man finds that SQ does not has the first class suite and he's angry about that, what can he do? Switch to other airlines? Yes you can, put another 2 to 3 hours on your journey. How much does it cost to him? Well...I don't know. The SIN-LAX is time-efficient more than cost efficient, it won't cost less for a tech-stop over HKG/TPE or wherever (or maybe stopping at TPE is cheaper than HKG), especially got the weight restriction as well. 1 first class seat may cost up to 3 business class seats, but can the first class ticket be 3 times more than the business class? Sometimes it can, but not always possible.

Senliture

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