Qantasclub
Topic Author
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Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:03 pm

What is the most profitable longhaul route in the world? By long haul, i mean...perhaps greater than 7-8 hours. Much traditionally has been made of the LHR-JFK 'blue ribbon' route-is it really that profitable? What about Asia/Europe routes and Asia-US? Double or triple dailys are not uncommon now, which makes me think that airlines are making truckloads from these sectors. Examples that I know of are:
CX and MH triple daily HKG and KUL to LHR.
SQ triple daily SIN to LHR
QF (in peak season) triple daily SYD to LAX
Then there are the long haul routes by which many carriers operate, providing great choice for consumers but diluting profits for airlines : NRT-LAX? LHR-SIN?
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
anstar
Posts: 2868
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:09 pm

I think it depends on the airline.

I think QF's SYD-LAX is a HUGE money spinner for them, but I don't reckon it's as profitable for UA.

I think LHR - JFK is also hugely profitable, as it is a great F/J route.

 
KLM exel
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:13 pm

Of course lhr-jfk is not the most profitable route. There is to much competition on that route and the prices are lower than other routes.

I route with a lot of pax/carriers doesn't allways mean that the profits are very high
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
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RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:18 pm

A certain LHR-JFK service may well have been though.
KLM exel,have you checked out the business class fares from LHR-JFK?Then compare it to economy and you will see why BA have 7 rotations a day.
 
Qantasclub
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:48 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:20 pm

Personally, I find SIN-LHR an amazing long haul route. Here are two cities spread apart by more than 10000kms and 13-14 hours of flying time, and look at how many flights there are?
SQ: 3 X 744 daily
QF: 2 x 744 daily
BA: 2 X 744 daily.

Thats 7 744s a day and if you consider that 4 of these flights leave in the evening around the same time bte 1.30 and midnight, you have alot of passengers traveling in parallel. I've flown on QF 9 many times to LHR and you know that there are 2 BA flights and an SQ 744 flying alongside you all the way. Dunno...just thought it's rather cool.
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
anstar
Posts: 2868
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:46 pm

I still stand by LHR-JFK. There are so many premium pax that travel this route, the airlines need the frequency to meet demand.

The Economy cabins are probably just icing on the cake for the airlines, and because they have so much capacity in Economy, they offer the lower fares, but its the premium cabins making the profit on these routes, and it's not strange to see that LHR-JFK with BA Club World can cost as much as LHR-SYD with BA Club world.
 
okko
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:44 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:30 pm

If we are taking about operating margins, I reckon it should be a route where they have really restrictive bilaterals in place; single designation, limited capacity etc. I recall reading that the Lagos route used to be the most profitable one for BA.
 
ryder10uk
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:59 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:38 pm

i pretty sure lgw-tpa is very profitable for BA
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:50 pm

From what I heard international routes to THR are supposed to be very high yield ones.
On the one side prices for the airlines are cheap (fuel cheaper then water*) but prices for the flights are very "not 2 cheap".
At least Lufthansa seems to be quite happy with FRA-THR.

Max
*can somebody confirm that this is true?
 
Moolies
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:59 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:09 pm

For SAA it is SA - New York">JFK-JNB and then LHR-JNB on SA234 and SA 235 they are almost always full. Now between Nov-Jan it is nearly impossible to get a seat.

Also for BA LHR-JNB, there have not been enough flight frequencies allocated so they are nearly always full.
 
Shamrock_747
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:25 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:12 pm

Lagos is a real money maker for BA, apparantly BA074/075 (LHR-LOS-LHR) are their most profitable flights since BA001/002 (LHR-JFK-LHR Supersonic) were withdrawn.

Declan.
 
tokolosh
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:26 pm

Moolies, I think you are right. Generally speaking, the Europe-South Africa route is almost always full! During the apartheid years tickets were twice to three times the price of now, and the flights were still full! It's a very popular destination.
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
N178UA
Posts: 1688
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 9:56 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:33 pm

SFO-NRT and IAD-LHR for UA follow by ORD-FRA, ORD-LHR, SFO-LHR and ORD-NRT.
Also peak season SFO/LAX-SYD too!

Summer UA used to do 3 x 747-400 (21 a week!) and always full and not cheap at all the price out of Japan market. In winter is 2 B744 , any route UA put 2 744 double daily have to be very profitable and high margin.

IAD-LHR in summer UA do 4 daily flights. (2 B763 and 2 B777) now 3 daily include a daytime IAD-LHR flight

Sam
For more of myself and my flight reviews visit http://www.SamChui.com
 
Moolies
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:59 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:43 pm

What puzzles me is the SA governemtn and British governement lack of ability to reach an agreement for more flight between SA and LHR especially in CT in december.

There is so much money to be made, but as they saying goes, "ignorance is bliss"
 
Lan_Fanatic
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:49 pm

It is a little off topic...but can somebody tell me how did London become SO important for airlines or for the world generally speaking?

I say this because of the 3 daily SQ flights, plus the CX flights, plus MH's plus QF's, and all the services by British Airways and Virgin Atlantic, AND sooooo many flights to New York and other US cities, and Eyurope, etc.

Which is London's secret to attract sooooo many people? I've been there and I find it one of the world's most amazing cities together with New York...but I can't explain myself how can London afford SO many people getting there!


my two cents
 
tokolosh
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:50 pm

Moolies, it's all politics. Slots are extremely difficult to get and worth a lot.
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:53 pm

Flights to/from DXB seems to be very profitable. EK is a booming airline (they are annoncing new routes very often) and last moth I experienced myself that LH's and LX's flights are also booked very well, there was not a single seat left in F and in C on both flights.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Moolies
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:59 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:53 pm

I know, but the main thrust of the argument between the two governemnts is the fact that they want a different airline to to to LHR from SA, not only SAA hence the offered natiowndie 3 slots to heathrow and SAA one because in some aspects SAA kill BA.

Before december this year SA carries had 33 slots and used 21 and British carries had 33 and used 31 of them, they are now over 33 and SA are only going to use 23 and they wont get given more.

Come on where is fair ball?
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 9:31 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:27 am

The most profitable US flight is most likely US 002 / 003 PHL-FCO-PHL
 
Avion346
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:36 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:05 am

What about DTW-NRT 2x daily on NW? They can route their passengers from NRT to pretty much anywhere from the new world gateway at DTW.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:32 am

HKG to SFO

SQ
747-400

CX
747-400

UA
747-400

AA), Japan">NRT to LAX

SQ
747-400

NH
747-400

JL
747-400

UA
747-400

TG
747-400

AA??
777-200

SYD to LHR

BA
747-400

QF
747-400
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:32 am

VARIG makes lots of money on their European routes...specially FRA/CDG and LHR. Flights to Japan also are very profitable!!!!!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:39 am

Dont forget

LAX-NRT

RG
MD-11

 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:43 am

Lagos is a real money maker for BA, apparantly BA074/075 (LHR-LOS-LHR) are their most profitable flights since BA001/002 (LHR-JFK-LHR Supersonic) were withdrawn.

This is very true.There is a lot of very high-yielding business traffic to a certain long-haul destination from LOS.So high yielding BA are considering switching the LOS flight back to LGW.


Come on where is fair ball?
True but SAA is hardly alone in this.Not exactly BA/BAA's fault though.
 
jayspilot
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:01 am

taiwan to hong kong is a huge money maker for cathay pacific..
 
Avion346
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:36 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:27 am

Also, NW operates 3x daily DTW-AMS on 333's. Must be pretty da*n profitable for NW.
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:27 am

SFO-HKG or SFO-NRT would have to be up there.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:13 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:29 am

TAP Air Portugal's most profitable routes are LIS to Luanda and LIS to Brussels.
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:32 am

Also, some of the most must be MIA-South America. MIA-GIG or MIA-GRU must be a money maker.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
Mohan
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:03 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:06 pm

DEL_LHR for BA is also a great money spinnr, F & J are always full and they charge a 10% premium over & above the published IATA fares.......and still go full despite the fact LH via FRA could be cutting it by 30%
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:17 pm

BA:
LHR-JFK
LHR-SYD
LHR-LOS
I would imagine the above routes are extremely good for BA
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
aussie747
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:31 pm

Of all Qantas's International routes the MEL/SYD/AKL to LAX services are very profitable up to 35% of all International Profits from the airline come from these 4 to 5 daily services.
Considering an economy ticket of this 13.5 hour journey is not that much cheaper than the 22 hour journey to London.
 
Qantasclub
Topic Author
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:48 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:59 pm

It's not surprising that SYD-LAX is profitable for QF, Airlines have been pulling out of this route for years...CO, then ANZ, which leaves UA with a small share and the rest goes to Qantas. In fact..it's often hard to get seats on these flights and the route is clearly underserved in terms of capacity. Hopefully the entry of SQ and/or Virgin or CX will spice things up a bit.
What about US-Asia long hauls...haven't heard much about these. LAX to NRT, SFO-HK, Vancouver to hong kong, etc. Competitive, but profitable? I'n not sure-the SQ fare to LAX return in ridiculously cheap. (sometimes, just over 1000 sing dollars. Not that profitable then? Does anyone know.
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16003
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:08 pm

The routes on which there is only one operator, thus in a monopoly situation, are surely up there. Indeed, firms operating in this situation can effectively charge what they wish if there are no alternatives or no effective alternatives, so long as the demand is there - which is surely must be. Also, these prices can be sustained in view of the huge barriers to entry, at least in the domestic market.

[Edited 2003-11-24 13:11:02]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
hoons90
Posts: 3124
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:10 pm

Definetely HKG-TPE !!
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
Qantasclub
Topic Author
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:48 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:12 pm

Hoons90...READ the topic, dude. HKG-TPE is NOT a long haul route.
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
hoons90
Posts: 3124
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:42 pm

Ahh, Sorry.
Then I would have to say... NRT-HNL or NRT-LAX... I've seen stats before that say HNL-NRT is the second most popular route from the US, after JFK-LHR.

The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
a330marcus
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:12 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:05 am

For American, I find that SJC-NRT on a daily 772 must be making money (for them to continue it), especially if the Silicon Valley economy begins to pick up.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Most Profitable Long Haul Route In The World

Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:20 am

Hoons90,

The question was most profitable, not most popular. There is a strong difference between the two.

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