COEWRNJ
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
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CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:11 am

Hey. I was just wondering if there are any new major international routes in the works at Continental. Either Europe or the Pacific. From any of the three hubs although CLE is very unlikely.
 
JETSET123
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:56 am

RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:22 am

Loads of rumours about new services to the UK from Newark. Destinations include Newcastle, Stansted (resumption) and maybe Bristol or Cardiff.

Watch this space.

Regards

Jason -London
 
Guest

RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:43 am

What airport do you think they would pick out of..

CWL and BRS?

I think CWL simply because of longer runway (to handle higher loads - compared to BRS' small runway)...

Also...

CWL is improving it's facilities much, much more than BRS...  Wink/being sarcastic

I can't wait until CWL gets its new terminal!  Big thumbs up

EGFFbmi - Chris
 
JETSET123
Posts: 38
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:55 am

If think Bristol would be the likely destination in the s/w due to the fact of having a larger catchment area and being more established than Cardiff eg: more passengers and more airlines already there. There would also be onward connections offered via Flybe.

I have been told that a 757 could make Newark non-stop with either no or very limited load restrictions.

Regards

Jason - London
 
FoxBravo
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:03 am

I hate to say it, but...neither.

The fact is, most Americans haven't even heard of Bristol or Cardiff, let alone been to either. There just isn't enough demand to warrant a nonstop from NY to either one. Even Stansted is a long shot, but it's not totally inconceivable, since CO's previous service there was brought to a swift end due to 9/11, and never really given a chance to develop.

If I had to bet, though, I'd say EDI will be CO's last new UK destination for a while.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
COEWRNJ
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:46 am

RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:10 am

Do you think thy would ever start BCN service? I would think that would do well. The one I would like to see but doubt will ever happen is NCE. What do you think. When they did fly to Stansted how were the loads? Anyone know?
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:14 am

CO is probably content with their pax having the options of Delta and Air Europa to BCN at this time, rather than utilize their limited intercontinental fleet.

[Edited 2003-11-23 21:14:39]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:18 am

What about the following ideas?


IAH-MAN
767-400

IAH-FCO
767-400

IAH-MAD
767-400

IAH-FRA
767-400

IAH-DUB
767-200 Summer Service

IAH-LIS
767-200 Summer Service

IAH-MXP
767-200 Summer Service

IAH-ZRH
767-200 Summer Service

EWR-ATH
767-200 Summer Service

EWR-FAO
757-200 Summer Service

EWR-BCN
767-200 Summer Service

EWR-BFS
757-200 Summer Service

The American tourist trade to Portugal is huge when it comes to the summer season. Which by the way bring planes packed with Portuguese-Americans to Portugal and the Azores!

American Airlines has been making buckets of money on their seasonal services from ORD and JFK to FCO! They op the 767-300ER daily from May to October on those routes. In addition the load factor was at near 95% on both for the summer season!

American Airlines is betting heavy as well on their new seasonal service from JFK to BRU!

Delta Airlines is also adding seasonal service from CVG to FCO on the 767-300ER!

In addition Alitalia is commencing a summer nonstop from IAD to MXP, and if all bodes well summer nonstop from BOS to FCO, and SFO to MXP!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:46 am

CO has said it plans to expand IAH's Euro-service once TerminalE is capable of accepting int'l arrivals.

IAH-CO / LIRF), Italy">FCO/MXP/MAD/FRA are not beyond the conceivable realm of possibility, particularly should CO enter SkyTeam. I rather doubt most of the others.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:14 am

The 757-200 would have no trouble what so ever making an EWR-Bristol or an EWR-Cardiff trip and the nonstop back. Problem is, there probably isn't enough demand for either of these cities quite frankly. However, CO will start nonstop service in the Spring of '04 to Edinburgh, Scotland, bringing to five, the number of UK cities served from Newark (LGW, MAN, BHX, GLA).

ContinentalEWR
 
LN-KGL
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:43 am

According to Continental's draft for the summer 04 (IATA meeting Nov. 8-11, Singapore), the only new schedules are:
EWR-EDI daily 752 dep EWR 20:45 arr EDI 08:30 - dep EDI 10:00 arr EWR 12:30
EWR-TLV second daily, both 772

Kurt
http://www.plane-spotter.com
 
AA767400
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:54 am

Ln-kgl, What part of the Iata website is that?
"The low fares airline."
 
COEWRNJ
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:46 am

RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:58 am

Have they announced the second daily TLV service yet?
 
fraT
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:00 am

I would love to see CO add a FRA-IAH flight. So many Germans are going to Latin America and IAH would be a great connecting point. Also some other ideas from LHR001 sound interesting.

The only problem is that CO won't have any wide body deliveries next year so I don't see any new routes that require bigger equipment than the 757.
Just too bad.....
 
jcs17
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:01 am

I wouldn't put IAH-ZRH (762) out of the realm of possibilities. AA has made a killing off of their DFW-ZRH route, that being said AA does have codeshares with LX out of ZRH. EWR-ATH, and perhaps EWR-BCN might do well. Concieveably, the BCN route could be operated wtih a stop in MAD.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
FoxBravo
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:11 am

I agree that IAH-MXP (and possibly Rome) is not only reasonable, but fairly likely if CO enters SkyTeam. EWR-BCN might work too, especially with a 757. IAH to FRA and ZRH could be tough because they offer no SkyTeam feed; FRA doubly so because LH already flies to IAH. It's true that LIS is popular, but mainly because of the substantial Portuguese community in the Northeast, especially Boston, Rhode Island and Newark. I could be wrong, but I don't think Texas or anywhere West has the same sort of connection. EWR-FAO seems like a very long shot--maybe they could fill a 757, but the yields would be very low as there is absolutely no business traffic. Seasonal service to BFS has been tried before, by ATA years ago, but I don't think the demand is there. And although ATH might make sense becuase of the Olympics and because of OA's poor health (could be the next SABENA), it's a very seasonal and tourist-driven market.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:16 am

AA has made a killing off of their DFW-ZRH route

AA has also long shared antitrust immunity with the dominant carriers in that market (mostly, as a last resort) as well.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
CB777
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:47 am

CO will start in 2004

EWR-EDI daily
EWR-CDG 2xdaily I think the 2nd flight will be a 767-200
EWR-TLV 2x daily


CB777
 
highguy76
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:19 am

The loads on CO's EWR-STN-EWR were (when I worked it) usually quite full, I think our business pax found it a good alternative to LGW.
As for Bristol or Cardiff, much as I would love a layover in Wales, I don't see it happening.
Highguy76
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:23 am

Janes reported that EWR-STN actually did better than EWR-BHX in the short time it existed... also, some tech firms are calling for STN-EWR/SJC
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
dutchjet
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:51 am

CO has already announced the EDI service (with a 757), the probable return of the 2nd TLV flight this summer (was promised before, maybe it will happen this time - has to do with the situation in the mid-east) and the 2nd frequency to Paris; also, Hong Kong is going from 4 to 5 services per week (with 6 flights per week during certain holiday periods) which is a good sign.....CO has fought hard to maintain their flagship route. And, the EWR-GVA nonstop, opened last year, continues.

There is the rumor of another trans-atlantic destination out of EWR that would operate with widebody aircraft..........Athens, Barcelona, Moscow, Istanbul and/or "a city in Scandanvia" have all been mentioned, along with Bombay. Nothing definite has been announced. (There is also the remote possibility of EWR-MUN returning after many years, but EWR-DUS is not coming back anytime soon.) In addition, not to be contrary to the the post above, Newcastle is a real possibility with a daily 757 (NCL, in the NE of England, is now the largest city in the UK without scheduled transatlantic service) and CO has done a good job and made a good name for itself in the UK by opening routes from regional airports in the UK direct to EWR. Even if NCL is not a popular US destination, traffic orignating in NCL (both business and leisure) could support the route. And, there is STN, which did OK before quickly dropped in response to 9/11 (the route was cut mainly due to the lack of aircraft........the DC10s were quickly retired and the 752s were needed for other services when the aircraft assignments were shuffled) but I think that CO is playing a wait and see game depending upon what may happen with LHR in the near future. Lastly, at EWR, a EWR-Osaka flight was once considered in the pre 9/11 days, but now seems very unlikely.

With the new facilities at IAH opening, CO has promised increased international service: IAH-AMS was added in response to the KLM code-share, when most thought that Madrid and/or Frankfurt would be the next city out of Houston to get nonstop service. If another European city is added, its likely to be FRA or MAD........Frankfurt, due to lots of business traffic, is a good choice and Madrid, due to the huge number of connection possbilities between Central America (where CO has a big presence) and Madrid, seemed like a winner..........with the new US rules regarding transit passengers and visas, the IAH-MAD service may have to wait atleast until the US takes another look at the regulations....very few think that the transit rules are premanent but time will tell. There were a lot of rumors about a possible IAH-Guam flight operating nonstop, but it seems as if that info was just rumor. CO has looked at other points in Japan and Asia out of IAH, but again there is nothing definite and it would be risky for CO to open such routes at this time.

 
Alpha 1
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:07 am

Actually, there is still talk of CLE-AMS, to tie in with SkyTeam, maybe in '04, but more likely in '05, if things improve. It's a little late for putting in summer '04 international service into the pipeline.

Gordo has said he wants CLE-LGW to go year-round again, but that, again, is on economics improving. Other than that, I think, for SkyTeam, CLE-CDG down the road is a possibility, but not within the next few years.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:13 am

There were a lot of rumors about a possible IAH-Guam flight operating nonstop

That'll be the day. The GUM hub doesnt cater to the mainland USA market... therefore they'd have to use one of their flagship aircraft on a route with practically nothing but connecting pax.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
chepos
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:33 am

What about EWR-PAP ,a daily flight with a 737-700 would work. There is a big Haitian population in the New York area and only AA and Air Dayiti are currently flying the route (FROM JFK)
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:00 pm

I have heard of new widebody EWR service being ATH. Also I would anticipate new IAH transatlantic service to open up soon. (MAD) It would be great to see year round CLE-AMS/LGW/CDG. That would possibly be the greatest thing ever for the CLE hub. Then all we would need is HNL service!!
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:21 pm

I have heard of new widebody EWR service being ATH.

Everybody seems to have heard of this. Nobody seems to have an explanation as to how CO will come up with ATH route authorities.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
gkirk
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RE: CO International Expansion

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:06 pm

The next UK destination for CO will be Newcastle IMO. I believe bosses at NCL have been talking to CO as well as DL about starting daily flights to New York
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:19 am

Nobody seems to have an explanation as to how CO will come up with ATH route authorities.

probably because many assume that, with the decaying health/status of OA, more Greek rights will be opened (as likely or unlikely as that may be)
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Guest

RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:26 am

Anyone know any CO expansion in the UK's sothwest..?

Maybe CWL or BRS?

EGFFbmi - Chris
 
FoxBravo
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:45 am

I would look for at least 1 daily 777 from EWR to both CWL and BRS. IAH service is likely to start with 764s for the time being, until more 777s are freed up from the NRT and HKG routes. Lots more info here:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1269424/
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Guest

RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:22 am

FoxBravo,
That thread was a hoax thread, nothing more than everyone saying their bunch of bs.

The next UK destination for CO will be Newcastle IMO. I believe bosses at NCL have been talking to CO as well as DL about starting daily flights to New York

Looks like someone is asking for the ultimate NCL thread  Laugh out loud

Cheers,
Tim
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:00 am

Actually, the next major International long haul destination for Continental is nowhere near the UK...

Stay Tuned
J
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:05 am

no fair... at least give us the continent  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:13 am

As mentioned above, there are no aircraft available to add new international Trans-Atlantic, Trans-Pac, or Deep South America due to the post-9/11 cut in DC-10's and no new widebody deliveries.

Only international expansion into Mexico, Carribean, or Central America, or Canada is possible with the 737 or 757 fleets.

IAH is not good Trans-Atlantic gateway. Too far south and most cities have service to EWR which acts a better Trans-Atlantic gateway. EWR has better connecting opportunies as IAH rules out half the country as in would require traveling in the opposite direction. CLE could work as a good CONNECTING gateway for TransAtlantics, but lack of O&D, so EWR is the best choice for CO.
 
artsyman
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:31 am

As mentioned above, there are no aircraft available to add new international Trans-Atlantic, Trans-Pac, or Deep South America due to the post-9/11 cut in DC-10's and no new widebody deliveries.
*********

Oh...but there are. There is a new 777 destination very closed to being announced, but you guys are not getting close yet....
 
TWFirst
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:34 am

Artysman....

I believe I might have an idea (have a friend that's in operations at EWR)...

Do I have the correct hub???
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
gte439u
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:38 am

Might it by EWR-DEL/BOM? It seems like logical choice to bring another non-stop to India from North America (in addition from the YYZ-(ARN)-DEL flight on AC).
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:46 am

CO doesnt have any aircraft realistically capable of efficiently operating EWR-DEL nonstop... due to the restrictions imposed on twinjets over/near the Himalayas.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
artsyman
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:50 am

It isnt DEL or BOM, and It will not be out of EWR or CLE...

J
PS Concorde...AIM
 
mattg21iah
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:58 am

Is it a brand new city to be served or has it ever been served.
 
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STT757
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:02 am

" there are no aircraft available to add new international Trans-Atlantic, Trans-Pac, or Deep South America due to the post-9/11 cut in DC-10's and no new widebody deliveries"

Actually CO is not operating the Wide body fleet with high utilization, a good number of CO 767s sit on the ground at EWR for a good portion of the day.

Then there are the CO 767s operating out of Guam to Japan, they replaced 757s. Guam-Japan is not a very long route so bringing those 767s back East (West?) and replacing them with 757s or 757-300s would free those 767s up to launch new routes.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
FoxBravo
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:18 am

Boieng747-400--I am well aware that it was a hoax thread, and my link was just as tongue-in-cheek. I knew I should have used a smiley face just in case.  Smile

ConcordeBoy--Even though EWR-DEL seems unlikely for bureaucratic and other reasons (including, perhaps, overflying Afghanistan), I can't imagine the Himalayas have anything to do with it. The great circle route from EWR to DEL goes well to the west of the highest mountains.

I'll take a wild guess and say IAH-SEL, together with a codesharing agreement with KE. Then one more piece of the SkyTeam puzzle would fall into place...
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
B747-437B
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:32 am

I can't imagine the Himalayas have anything to do with it.

Its not the Himalayas themselves per se, but the general high terrain in the region between India-Iran including the Himalayas, Hindukush, etc... A fully loaded twinjet ex-DEL would be unable to maintain engine-out terrain clearance in certain regions, thus neccessitating a slightly longer route that pushes into questionable mideastern airspace.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
FoxBravo
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:59 am

Ok, the Hindu Kush makes a bit more sense than the Himalayas, but I didn't realize the mountains were so high over central Afghanistan that a 777 couldn't, say, take off from DEL, head west-northwest as far as Ashgabat, skirting the northern border of Iran, before heading northwest over Russia, Scandinavia, etc. The distance would still be only about 7500 mi. But I do realize there are restricted corridors over Pakistan and Afghanistan, so I can see how it might be tough. Performance issues aside, CO (and/or its insurers) might also feel that it's just not worth the risk.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Ant72LBA
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:10 am

Coming into this a bit late but I need to comment on a couple of posts:

Dutchjet: Newcastle (approx 260,000 popn) is nowhere near the largest city in the UK without a transatlantic flight. Leeds (715,000) doesn't have one and it is roughly three times the size of Newcastle. Sheffield (513,000) doesn't even have an international airport anymore! To give you an idea of population numbers:

North West (served by MAN and LPL); 6.3m
Yorkshire and Humber (served by LBA); 4.9m
North East (served by NCL); 2.5m

I'd have to agree with FoxBravo in that I don't think there will be anymore UK expansion by CO for a while after their EDI service starts. One for the future - Finningley (if it ever opens)? It will only be a couple of hours from London and serves the Yorkshire & Humber region far better than the existing airports.
 
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airzim
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:20 am

Artsyman,

Obviously having no idea but a likely guess is somewhere in Asia. Although a spare 777 would likely not be enough for daily service. But then again Gordon seems content to let NW handle alot of Asian flights.

I'm thinking something random, out of the blue like JNB. I put my money on IAH to somewhere in Africa.
 
artsyman
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:30 am

I am not 100% that this will be 777 service, but if not, it will be 762 service. I do not believe that the 764 could do this route justice

Jeremy
 
COEWRNJ
Topic Author
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:32 am

ARTSYMAN:
Do you know when this route will be annonced?
 
donder10
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:39 am

IAH-LOS?
 
COEWRNJ
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
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RE: CO International Expansion

Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:42 am

It wouldn't surprise me if it was an oil rich country in the middle east or Africa.