GalvanAir777
Topic Author
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Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:40 pm

It seems from floating from topic to topic that a few members have a hatered from Southwest Airlines? Why is this? Can you possibly in an adult mannor explain yourselves?


For the record i personally like WN, but it seems I might be in the minority here.

GalvanAir now Serving Airliners.net!
 
TriStar500
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:48 pm

You know, this is really one of the classic a.net thread topics, just like the "NW DC-9 replacement" thread. Big grin

Having never flown WN myself, I foresee at least 70-80 replies, with the ensuing discussion between WN- and "full frills"-supporters/ employees becoming more and more irrational and emotional.

So let's see if I am right.
Oh, and BTW, you could do a search about this topic, I guess, you'll see where the discussion will be heading.  Smile
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:50 pm

Seems to me like the reason why some people hate WN here is because some people hate Y-Class passengers. WN being a LCC represents all that is evil and unholy to them - an airline designed for us coach flyers. An airline that removes all the pomp and arrogance of amenity kits and hot towels and instead replaces it with a reasonable fare from point A to point B. WN represents a revolution in the sense that some first class snobs on a.net see Southwest as something akin to a socialist airline with all passengers getting the same treatment. Horror of horrors! No, nothing to make them feel better about themselves, they're just merely another passenger to WN. No longer do they have their slightly better meals to differentiate themselves from the unwashed hordes in coach! They don't even have advanced boarding! And thus you see that to a tried and true airline snob, Southwest is anathema. It's despised because it's taken the belief that air travel is a stuffed shirt affair and thrown it away in favor of jeans and sneakers. To that I only have one thing to say: viva la revolución!
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
GalvanAir777
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:52 pm

Well i am sort of a newbie here, and im trying to get some thought provoking topics but it doesnt really seem to be working  Crying
GalvanAir now Serving Airliners.net!
 
TriStar500
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:55 pm

GalvanAir777,
Don't worry, it is an interesting topic - a true classic - but I fear you'll never see a really satisfying answer coming up. The discussion, however, is always interesting to read.  Smile
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:37 pm

Only time I've flown wn in the past three years was 2 weeks ago and both my flights were over an hour late. I ended up getting to my final destiation 4 hours late. Weather was the supposed culprit so I won't hold it against them. It does seem like the seats are roomier on southwest flights than in coach on typical "major airlines". The FA's seem friendlier on southwest too. Everyone seems like they actually enjoy their job.

Overall I'd sooner fly southwest than coach on another airline if the price and number of connections are comparable.
 
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DaV
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:30 pm

On the other side of the pond, we have the usual "Why does everybody hates Ryanair?". I think it's a habit taking arms against who is too much successful  Big grin

Never flew with WN, but did it with FR. If the two are comparable, I'd have no problem flying WN. I just don't like its brownish livery, but that's all.

DaV
Two monologues do not make a dialogue
 
penguinflies
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:43 pm

wow only reply 7..that's impressive.

It's all about competition and being the best and wanting to be the best. Every airline has their strong points and weak points.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:51 pm

Hey, i like WN  Big thumbs up

I'm very quick to defend WN if need be. They gat a grossly unfair amount of criticism and I've been amused at how many people doing the bashing have never actually flown the airline. Put 'em on the spot and oftentimes they can't come up with one legitimate reason to hate WN.

The best argument I heard so far is non-assigned seating. you know what, I think it's ingenious. Not only does it make people be at the gate sooner in hopes of having a good seat (which makes for good turnaround times), it also allows me the freedom to sit wherever I want upon entering the plane, instead of getting stuck in a bad seat. I like that.

WN's FAs are the most professional, funny, outgoing people I've met in the industry, and go out of their way to help you in a jam (except for that one girl at LAS, but that was only one person).

You just CAN'T judge an airline based on one person or one flight you took with them. I encountered one WN employee that wasnt friendly. I encountered about 20 more that were. WN will definitely be recieving my business in the future, they won me over repeatedly in just one vacation! Big grin
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:55 pm

Garnetpalmetto, excellent post!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up
 
N766UA
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:42 pm

I like WN.
This Website Censors Me
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:48 pm

I don't personally wish WN any bad fortunes, but there are other "low-cost" carriers out there that aren't so bare-bones about air travel. Most give you more room, some give you IFE and others actually have a "business class" with even more room, free cocktails, seat assignements etc.

To me, something like AirTran is more of a "real" airline, whereas WN to me is nothing more than mass air transport. I'm sorry, but flying is more special than that to me....

Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
goingboeing
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:58 pm

Below are some reasons given by posters:

1. They don't have assigned seating. It must be a free for all at boarding (it isn't)

2. Their planes are (used to be) ugly - they must be horrible inside as well

3. They don't have TV sets in their seats. They must be horrible

4. As a low cost carrier, they cram you in, they must be horrible (this despite the fact that WN's legroom is among the best in the industry)

5. They only fly 737's - the don't provide any variety to the aviation geek - hence they are horrible

6. Their pilots wear bomber jackets and their FA's wear shorts - they must be horrible

7. They sometimes sing the Barney song on arrival. They must be horrible

8. They don't always have the lowest fares. They are not only horrible, they are lying bastards

9. For the technically saavy - they don't use ACARS - they must be horrible (and again, are nothing but a bunch of lying bastards)

10. They cater to the trailer trash leisure passenger on luxury leisure routes like DAllas-Houston or Kansas City-Chicago. They must be horrible.

11. And last but not least - they are profitable.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:18 pm

Manu people just have poor taste.
I like Southwest Airlines. All of my experiences with them have been great. Excellent service and friendly staff.

Beautiful livery and warm earth tone interiors.

Go Southwest!  Smokin cool


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GSPSPOT
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:37 pm

Here's part of my point.... In Superfly's post, there's a picture of 2 rows of seats FACING each other. Sounds novel, but I was in one of those seats once, and that was the last time I ever flew WN. You're forced to ride knee-to-knee with total strangers. Not for me!!
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:38 pm

Re: "They sometimes sing the Barney song on arrival. They must be horrible"

Yes they definitely must be ! I can't wait to fly on WN, but not if they're going to sing emetic purple dinosaur songs at me...
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
goingboeing
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:47 pm

JPGPH1A - It all depends on your flight crew. The "Barney" song they sang on my flight was "We love you, you love us, we're much faster than the bus". But that was only on one flight...they don't have a "script" to their cabin announcements, as I have heard on some other airlines in an attempt to be "fun".

GSPSPOT - actually the lounge seats will soon be history, and I for one will miss them. They were great for inflight "conferences", and even though you were sitting accross from strangers, if you're even the least bit outgoing, it can make for a very interesting flight. As far as being "knee to knee"....I'm 6'4" and my wife is 5'10" and we sat accross from one another on an MCI-LAS flight, without any "interference" with the others knees.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 11:48 pm

Goingboeing - thanks for the reassurance ! Barney is right up there on my hit list of Things That Are Wrong With The World.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
richierich
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:03 am

People in here hate Southwest because of the same reason they hate WalMart.

In drawing this comparison, I point to these similarities:

(1) They are both cheap/inexpensive. Some snobs in here equate this with attracting, let me say this correctly, a certain type of customer. AS with WalMart, these customers are often of a perceived lower socio-economic status. Nobody is treated badly at Southwest, but they don't make you feel very special either. Personally, I think getting more for your money is a great philosophy and I would not pay more to fly if I didn't have to. Just as buying shampoo at WalMart is cheaper than the same shampoo at a salon.

(2) They fly only type of aircraft. True, Southwest actually flies several different versions of the 737, but basically they are all 737s. Just as WalMarts pretty much look the same in Maine as they do in Southern California. Yes, there are differences - some are bigger and others are newer. But basically they are the same. Hardly a reason to hate Southwest, but for airliner enthusiasts, seeing one 737 after another can be considered boring.

(3) They are successful. Again, this should not be a reason to hate Southwest but Southwest's success has come at the expense of other airlines. I know there is more to this equation than this, but basically it is the same for WalMart. As Southwest and WalMart have grown from regional to national to mainstream, other airlines and dept. stores have suffered. I think there is more than a little bit of evolution here. If the big airlines (and dept. stores) can't adapt to survive, then good-bye. For years, the other major airlines have ignored their huge labor costs but survived by ripping of business customers. I am amazed that no one foresaw the downturn in the economy coming and leaving the major airlines with out of control costs and a lot of red-ink. It is similar to how Bloomingdale's and Macy's have struggled recently. I think Southwest should be applauded for having a sound business model.

Those are the major reasons. Sure, some people in here may have individual reasons to hate them, such as a bad flight experience or whatever, but I think most of the reasons are covered by the three examples above.

Anyone who is willing to pay double (or more) to fly across the country just because he or she doesn't like "the people that sit next to them on Southwest" needs psychological help. Wake up! America is a diverse place! I hate that some people have such an elitist attitude in here. I am not cheap or even poor... but I like getting my money's worth. There are some things I admit I won't buy at WalMart, such as clothing, but I have no problem shopping there to save money on other items! Likewise, I don't blindly buy airline tickets with one carrier just because I belong to their "club" and earn miles. I choose based on price, schedule and timing, often in that order. If that means Southwest, then so be it.

To me, any company that can make money as consistenly as Southwest has, through all kinds of economic strife and adversity in their industry, is doing something marvelously right!
None shall pass!!!!
 
goingboeing
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:22 am

JGPH1A - can't say that I disagree with you...but when I was on that flight, my daughter was just getting out of the "Barney" phase. Having heard the real Barney song early that morning, then hearing the modified version later that morning, I have to admit, it made me smile.
 
LHR001
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:47 am

Don't Knock Southwest Airlines....

More than any other U.S. airline, they have every year shown profit and expanded service!

The Southwest Airlines Flight Attendants are very nice. The airline truly cares about not only its passengers but its employees. The airline has on a constant basis insured clean aircraft, efficient departures, and ordered new aircraft on a yearly basis!

Perhaps Southwest Airlines is part of the reason the JetBlue has been afraid to expand on the West Coast. In addition with Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, America West Airlines, and United Airlines... JetBlue is in for a rude awaking out on the West Coast.

Southwest Airlines cities in the Los Angeles area-

Burbank
Los Angeles
Ontario
Orange County

The market share the Southwest Airlines holds from the Los Angeles are-

Las Vegas
Oakland
Phoenix
Sacramento
San Jose
Spokane
Tucson

That is impressive in its own right!

In addition Southwest Airlines would seem to dominate certain markets-

Alabama
California
Louisiana
Maryland
Missouri
Nevada
Texas

The following in a partial list of Southwest Airlines destinations that have been placed on the map for air service -

Amarillo
Austin
Baltimore
Boise
Buffalo
Chicago/Midway
Cleveland
Corpus Christi
Dallas
Detroit
El Paso
Ft. Lauderdale
Hartford
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
Kansas City
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Lubbock
Manchester
Nashville
New Orleans
Oakland
Oklahoma City
Ontario
Orange County
Orlando
Palm Beach
Phoenix
Portland
Providence
Reno
Sacramento
San Antonio
San Diego
San Jose
Seattle
Spokane
Tampa
Tucson
Tulsa

Compared to JetBlue only flying to 12 of the cities listed above!
 
luv2fly
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:55 am

WN has been around now for close to 30 years, B6 has only been around since there first flight on 2-11-2000, not really a fair comparison now is it.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:56 am

B6 is going to do just fine on the West Coast. There's plenty of market to share.

N
 
ANX4fishing
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:59 am

Haha, Garnetpalmetto, good post!
 
LHR001
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:05 am

LUV2FLY-


B6....JetBlue.....


From what has been discussed they are not filling the flights on their lone route within California..

The load factors on OAK-LGB have been at 62%

(This route is poised to go ERJ, when the airline...if the airline ever recieves the ERJ)

From what has been discussed they are not filling the flights on their lone California to Nevada route..

The load factors on LAS-LGB have been at 70%

We should now compare that to Southwest Airlines-

The load factors OAK-LAX/SNA/BUR/ONT have been around 85%

The load factors LAS-LAX/SNA/BUR/ONT have been around 90%

Jet Blue runs only a handful of flights compared to Southwest Airlines dozens... You do the math... The load factors done have anything to do with the number of flights... It has to do with number of passengers on each flight!

Good Luck with B6
 
EGGD
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:08 am

I think just about every airline is hated by somebody on the forum, keep in mind that alot of people post here... You're probably only noticing the dislike of WN because of your own personal biases for/against that airline, it happens alot to others too and every so often we got a topic about it as well.

You've just got to let it pass, there's alot to like/dislike about every airline, thats just the way it is!
 
luv2fly
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:10 am

LHR001 as you now call yourself, usually you are on here dishing WN and the lack of first class, as that is the only way you fly, from all your postings. Also compare WN and B6 on routes where they actually compete and you will see that B6 has stayed away from going head to head in the same markets.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
LHR001
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:13 am

Luv2Fly,


There it is.... You got it!
 
richierich
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:32 am

I don't think JetBlue has to make any apologies for anything in this post! Like Southwest, JetBlue is a carrier making money.

To look at the SF-LA route (specifically OAK-LGB for B6) and say that B6 is losing its battle with Southwest is stupid. As I sit here and analyze JetBlue's route structure and their history, I don't think that is a strategically important route for them. Much like LGB-LAS was not hugely important; it served a purpose, which was to utilize slots at LGB but those slots were quietly changed to trans-con flights which are money-makers for JetBlue.

Personally, I feel confident in saying that JetBlue has quickly made a name for itself, and has a great reputation, for flying cross country flights. Southwest's reputation is more for shorter haul flights - I think they will have a hard time getting the general public to think "Southwest" when they want to fly between Baltimore and Oakland. In fact, since WN has been flying that route, I don't believe JetBlue's IAD-OAK flights have suffered much. I realize they are slightly different markets, but a lot of the customer base does overlap.

This thread is not JetBlue vs. Southwest. It's supposed to be about why people hate traveling on the latter.... Read my above post for my response to that.
None shall pass!!!!
 
ont 737
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:45 am

Richierich,
WN does not fly OAK-BWI.... yet. However they do fly SJC-BWI.

Our OAK and LAS flights from LGB are doing great. I don't know where some people on this forum are getting these 62% and 70% load factors, but let me assure you, (As I am the one who actually loads the flights) they are higher than that.
 
LHR001
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:53 am

Ont737,

The need help loading the Atlanta flights...

Wait.... they lost Atlanta!


Seriously, Southwest Airlines is doing an excellent job and they will remain at the top of their game for years to come!
 
swacle
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:10 am

GSPSPOT

Here's part of my point.... In Superfly's post, there's a picture of 2 rows of seats FACING each other. Sounds novel, but I was in one of those seats once, and that was the last time I ever flew WN. You're forced to ride knee-to-knee with total strangers. Not for me!!


That is the reason that we are doing away with the "Lounge Areas"...these were nice back in the day when our 73S's has 112 seats, Im sure, and from what I hear many travelers at the time LUV'ed them, but now they are a thing of the past. I don't think any more than 30-40 of our -300's still have these lounge areas, which, including the -200 and -500's, would leave less than 80 still in our fleet. I know the -200's will never have the all-forward seating, but not sure on the -500's...anyone in MX or other department involved in this know??

On a personal note, I am a fan of the lounge areas ONLY when I am flying with people I know. Otherwise, it can get a little annoying. No tray tables, and riding backwards can make more than a few people sick. But, again, they are on their way out...

BTW...if you were stuck in a lounge area, one of two things happened...either you boarded at the end of the C group (line up earlier!!) or you chose to because it was the only window/aisle seat left on the plane. Either way, it was self inflicted, so quit yer whining!! =)

Don
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
richierich
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:43 am

LHR001:

I don't see WN flying into ATL... so what is your point??
Please stick to the topic.
None shall pass!!!!
 
LHR001
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:51 am

RichieRich,


Good point about the success of Southwest Airlines....

The point about Atlanta was to show JetBlue is not less prone to loosing a city than Southwest Airlines is!

Jet Blue has Direct TV.... that is nothing!

Southwest Airlines.... has a reputation, clientele, and scores...scores... of flights!
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:34 am

Direct TV---Nothing?? On a 5-hour flight???
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
LHR001
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:42 am

GSPSPOT....

Yes.... in the scheme of things....

Does Direct TV give you more flights?

Does Direct TV give you customer service?

Does Direct TV give you more frequent flier miles?
 
ssides
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:53 am

Bottom line: if you don't like WN, then don't fly them. Simple as that. WN seems to be doing fine, considering all the A.net posters that seem to hate the airline.

My two cents: I'm a US citizen studying in London, and today an economics professor claimed that US airline deregulation was a "failure." He said he never flies US airlines because service, amenities, etc. have declined since deregulation. As usual, I point out WN: this airline probably wouldn't have survived in a heavily regulated environment (it started in TX primarily to avoid CAB restrictions). Despite the haters out there, it has opened up air travel to many, many people who could otherwise not afford it. If people don't like this, they should re-examine their attitudes. WN's slogan, "You are now free to move about the country" rings true.

Even so, WN is not my favorite airline. I fly DFW-DCA and other long-haul routes out of Dallas, so I can't fly WN much, and I generally prefer AA's product. But it's impossible not to respect what WN has achieved. It's a genuinely American story.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
PSA53
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:07 am

From a business point of view:
It's crazy. In my opinion,Wn(LUV,stock symbol)
stock should be growing back to the thirties like
a couple of years.The airline keeps posting winning
seasons,even post 9/11, but remains stymie in the
teens.

I wonder if investors are nervous about start-ups
Independence Air and Northwest spin-off, Pinnacle.

Logic/emotions never played a factor in the stock market.
Nuts!
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
jrlander
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:07 am

I don't dislike SW. They are an incredibly well run company that knows its market. I really like them on certain routes. When my father and I used to go MCI-MDW, they are great. It is a short flight, and they have plenty of frequencies.

However, when I used to have to fly them LAX-LAS-MCI, I hated them. They were always late leaving LAX (not there fault). Their connections in LAS were so short that I never had a chance to buy some food on the ground.

I personally dislike the no-assigned seating. For personal reasons I need to have a aisle seat, and some of those flights were utterly miserable for me.

As my other half works for Delta, almost all of my flying is on that airline now. When I can't fly Delta, I try to fly an AA frequent flier partner, so that I can get some points on my other account. I like to travel overseas, and when I'm not flying on my Delta pass card I would rather rack up points on an airline that can get me out of the country.
 
richierich
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Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:21 am

lhr001... I think you are wrong about TV being unimportant.

JetBlue has LiveTV, Southwest doesn't. On long flights (even medium-haul flights), it is a critical selling point. It is nothing to do with customer service - people want TV. I'd bet the house that plans will be in place within two years to see some sort of equivalent IFE on Southwest flights.... You don't think that is important?

As for B6 and ATL, don't read too much into it. They left for the same reason that prevents other airlines - JetBlue is adaptable. A typical "major" airline would have stuck it out, not making much money (or losing money) on the route when there are other, more lucrative, opportunities available. If anything, the lesson to be learned from B6 and Atlanta is not that B6 "lost" the battle but that it has the wherewithall to change its route structure quickly and decisively. Southwest would have done the same thing (keep in mind WN has pulled out of 3 or 4 markets in its existence).

None shall pass!!!!
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:23 am

If TriStar500 is right there are about 30 to 40 more replies to come and I want to help him here.  Big thumbs up
I for myself can say that I have no problems whatsoever with Southwest Airlines... Last time I was in the States I even tried like crazy to get a flight from PHX to LAS but after they told me that it would cost 300US$ I had to change plans.
Next time - next try.

Max
 
ckfred
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:27 am

I think the reason some people hate Southwest is that they don't do anything to show appreciation to good customers.

Some of my friends eat at the same restaurants a lot. Because of that, they can get a table any time, no matter how full the place is.

My parents have bought 5 new cars at the same dealership over the past 30 years. Whenever the cars go in for service, they are ready early.

Southwest has no way to reward its customers who buy its most expensive tickets frequently. No seat assignments in the front of the cabin, no seat assignment, period, no advanced boarding, no club rooms, no free upgrades.

At AA, if there is a severe delay of flights due to weather, international first class and business class passengers can wait in the Admiral's Club, and an agent will come get you when the flight is about to be called. Southwest won't do that.

It all comes down to the frequent flyer believing, and rightly so, that he ought to get something more than the person who flies once or twice a year on a discounted fare.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:36 am

CKfred - nothing to reward the frequent flyer? How about a free ticket after 16 or less flights? My 10 year old has already received 2 round trips in as many years. How about the "companion pass" (free travel for a companion) for anyone who flies them on average once a week?

You're right that no one is given "preferential treatment" with early boarding, that's one of the reasons that a lot of folks like them, hard as that might be t believe. And on more than one occassion, I have heard Southwest agents call for passenger John Doe to report to the gate as the plane was now boarding. Of course, they won't walk over to the AA admirals club to get somebody hanging out over there.

But...one of the nurses I work with was on a flight when the FA asked if there was a doctor or nurse on board. She went up and helped out a guy who was having problems, then the FA asked her for her name and address. A couple of weeks later, she received a letter in the mail along with a free ticket, thanking her for helping out on the flight. She's had the same thing happen on Delta and AA, but never got anything more than a "thank you" from the FA.
 
AA7573E
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 am

Lhr001

I usually agree with most of your posts, but I have to take sides with you on this one:

In addition Southwest Airlines would seem to dominate certain markets-

Alabama
California
Louisiana
Maryland
Missouri
Nevada
Texas


Without being too lengthy....

California - is a wide open market. WN has a large presence, but so does HP, Jet Blue, Frontier, American, United, and Alaska. I would not say anyone of those carriers dominates California, but if I were going to say one did, it would not be Southwest.

Maryland-I think you mean Baltimore, since very few other cities in the state have commercial service. If you are going to do Baltimore, then you have to do IAD, DCA and BWI, to be fair they all serve the same general area. There is no way WN dominates this market. IAD is run by United Express, for now, plus a substantial transcontinental and international presence from the majors and foreign airlines. DCA is a big USAirways facility, in addition to seeing service from discount carriers, and a robust schedule flown by AA, Delta (mainline and shuttle), UA and Continental. BWI is a big WN airport, inasmuch as it is a big facility for anyone. USAirways has been decreasing its profile there, but all the bigs maintain a substantial presence, and there is plenty of LCC coverage there as well. The long and the short of it is Maryland, aka DC metro, is dominated by UAL and its affiliates, and has substantial service from a myriad of other carriers, including WN.

Nevada - HP HP HP HP. Need we say more. LAS is one of their most successful hubs.

Texas - now this is the most obvious one. Three major airlines have hubs in Texas. Delta, Continental and AA, including substantial operations from American Eagle, Delta Connection and Continental Express. WN has one hub, and don't forget the restrictions that the Wright amendment places on operations out of that facility. They do not dominate Texas by any extent.

WN does not dominate these markets. They are big players, but dominant is a bit over the top.
See you up front!
 
LHR001
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:44 am

By the Way....

One of JetBlue's longest routes-

JFK-SJU

Does not offer Direct TV!

In addition, Southwest Airlines has always offered the lowest fares in the market. Look at JetBlue, they state their fares are low....Look at JFK-LAS day of departure you will pay nearly $500.00! Also, the comment about seating on the aircraft, and the club lounges....

People fly Southwest Airlines for one reason or another... Usually to get to where they are going...and to get there fast! I dont see AA, B6, DL, or UA... Having the profit margin that Southwest Airlines rakes in!
 
Leskova
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:33 am

Hmm, this might be a completely new view in this discussion, but here's my reason for not really being crazy about WN, B6, FR, whatever Easyjet's code is, and just about every other low-cost-carrier: money.

To explain that: I'm a travel agent.

Low fare carriers do not pay commissions (I'm in Germany, where the "normal" carriers still do pay a commission), so we don't sell them (we're also not really crazy about selling any major airline ticket beginning in the US, since we won'tget a commission on those either).

Now I know what airlines say - travel agents should have the customer pay them directly for the service they provide, but that's essentially saying "ok, you do something for us (i.e. fill out seats), but - frankly, we don't care about that": in markets, where more than 50% of seats are sold through websites, I'll agree that the travel agents aren't really that important for airlines anymore - but over here, most airlines are still in the single digits percentage-wise on the amount of seats sold online... the overwhelming amount of seats are sold through travel agencies.

Part of my problem is actually more with the major carriers: some of them have reduced commissions to ridiculous levels, citing the need to cut cost in view of low-cost carriers.

Looking at the fact that a domestic Lufthansa ticket for EUR 50 (plus taxes, but we don't get commissions on taxes) will net us a "generous" EUR 2.50 (which Lufthansa essentially says is still too high), but at the same time Lufthansa has no problem of giving people booking their flights through their website (or, incidentally, through travel agent's websites, who, in the case of this example will then earn a huge amount of EUR 2.00 of commission) a discount of EUR 10...

Considering the fact that quite a few airlines would not even exist in the minds of the travelling public if it had not been for travel agents offering them, I have to say that I do not appreciate their behavior of shutting us out.

And this is, as I've mentioned in-between, my main reason for being against LCCs - they provide the major airlines with excuses for decisions that hurt the people that have, in quite a lot of cases, contributed a great deal to them being as big as they are today.

I will, however, admit that LCCs have done "good deeds"  Smile as well - no-one will, I think, be able to explain why Lufthansa happily claimed that it was losing money on domestic routes 2-3 years ago with fares that are, on average, 2-5 times as high as the ones they offer now, while - since last year - proclaiming to be profitable on domestic routes: LCCs have brought a certain sense of honesty into the major airlines...

Having said all this, I know that this wheel will not be turned backwards - LCCs won't disappear, major airlines will not re-introduce big commissions for all travel agencies, everyone's not going to re-start booking their flights at a travel agency: it's just too bad that while everyone complains when airlines, as it is so wonderfully put, "make employees redundant" - while no-one cares at all that these trends have killed quite probably hundreds of travel agencies and - obviously - the jobs they gave to their employees.

Personally, I'll always pay the EUR 50 to EUR 100 that it'll normally cost me more to fly LH, OS, SK, AF, BA, KL and others (and I'll avoid using web-booking-engines as long as possible) - not because I am trying to avoid paying less, but - seeing that I am complaining about LCCs as I have here - it would be just about as inconsequential as a person could get if I were to fly on them...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
luv2fly
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:37 am

One thing WN paid 10% commission a whole lot longer than the so called majors. In fact they continued paying it long after the so called majors cut the amount they were paying travel agents.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
goingboeing
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:42 am

Leskova - in the US, as has been pointed out, the major airlines stopped paying travel agent commissions some time ago. Southwest kept paying them up until about a month ago. So in that respect, the "major" carriers were "leading the way" in the states quite some time ago.
 
Leskova
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:46 am

Ouch - didn't know that... how did travel agents book them? Was there a special website, since they're not loaded into CRSs (which is what HLX is doing - not surprisingly, they're the favorite LCC of travel agencies over here  Big grin)?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
LHR001
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RE: Why Do People On A.NET Dislike WN?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:48 am

Leskova.....


Travel Agents are not highly regarded in the United States....

Travel Agents are becoming a part of the past....

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