Tolosy
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How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:31 am

Hi,

As a flight spotter  Big thumbs up, I am always wondering how ATR delivers some planes in some geographical place, like oceania.
For example, the ones to Air Tahiti or Air New Zealand. Because even with extra fuel, is the plane allowed to fly over the pacific ocean.

I also have the same question for 737 and 320. For example, if Boeing delivers a 737 to Europe, even with extra fuel, the plane is not ETOPS certified.

Also I would like wich routes these plane fly when delivered?

Thanks for your help,

Nick
 
prosa
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:32 am

I don't believe ETOPS requirements apply if an aircraft is on a delivery flight without passengers.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
PIA777
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:33 am

Anyone know what airport PIA's 777 is going to stop-over at when it gets delvired to Pakistan? I think it will stop over at JFK, or some other Airport. Can some one tell me what airport the PIA's 777 will be stoping over when it gets deliverd
GO CUBS!!
 
OD720
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:38 am

How is the 777 delivery path related to this topic?

If the ATR can make it from Scotland to KEF, it can probably make it from there to North America. Remember that early airliners in the 40s used to fly transatlantic with almost a similar range to today's ATRs.
 
mbmbos
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:41 am

I believe that an extra large slingshot is involved.

 
Tolosy
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:43 am

What is a slingshot?

Thanks for your reply.

Nick
 
Leskova
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:52 am

A slingshot is something that most teachers have taken away from their pupils... it usually consists of a Y-shaped piece of wood with a rubber band inbetween... the kid's version of a catapult...

Although, you'd need one heck of a slingshot for an ATR... Mbmbos - do you know who even produces rubber bands of that size and strength? Big grin
Smile - it confuses people!
 
FoxBravo
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:52 am

It gets a little trickier when there is nowhere to stop and refuel, as between the U.S. mainland and Hawaii--for example, when Hawaiian's new 717s were delivered. Or, presumably, when Air Tahiti receives new ATRs. In those cases, some or all of the seats are removed and extra fuel tanks are installed in the cabin, allowing for longer overwater routes.

FYI, a slingshot is like a small catapult--typically a piece of elastic stretched between a forked stick. It's what David supposedly used against Goliath, according to the Bible...not trying to be obnoxious, but surely you have them in the UK??? In case it wasn't obvious, Mbmbos was joking...



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Tolosy
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:57 am

Thanks for the details !

I yeah I see what you mean. Shame on me.

 Wink/being sarcastic
 
PIA777
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:30 am

I was just asking  Sad
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Leskova
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:37 am

Don't worry, PIA777 - the fact that no-one has answered your question simply says that no-one knows the answer here... try starting a thread with that question, I suspect that will get you an answer quite quickly - at least if the route has already been set...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
mandala499
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:54 am

Hmm, this ATR delivery to Tahiti was discussed to death in the Sydney Airport Forums... I think the route they used was fly through Asia and Australia, to Fiji, Samoa and all those other places until they reached Tahiti, and they didn't need the extra tanks if I recall correctly...

Mandala499
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FoxBravo
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:03 am

Ok, maybe the Air Tahiti ATR was a bad example--that was just a guess. I do know, however, that Hawaiian used extra tanks to get its 717s across the ocean (and probably did the same with its DC-9s back in the day). There was an article about this in Airways not too long ago.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Marcus
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:23 am

Sometime ago someone posted a link to a picture (dont't know if it has been updated to the database)..........of a 717 with extra fuel tanks inside, in order to make the delivery trip from the mainline US to Hawaii.
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Airbus Lover
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:39 am

Umm as for PIA B777s I am 99% sure they can fly nonstop from WA to Pakistan with full load of fuel and few pax and/or cargo.

ATRs? They just have lots of stops enroute, just like a milk run  Big thumbs up

A32Xs or B737NGs? Umm they umm have >5000kms of range how far do you think they can fly with full fuel and no pax?  Nuts

Just an example of deliveries of our 3 A332s earlier this year, they all flew YUL-SZB (Montreal - Kuala Lumpur (Subang)) non stop with full load of fuel. IIRC it was more than 14000kms and took about 16 hrs to arrive. Upon touch down they still had enuff (well sorta) fuel for a diversion to airports 50 minutes away.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy I don't think ETOPS restrictions apply for such delivery flights, more of a one-off scenario.
 
PBIflyguy
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:49 am

LESKOVA..... first time ever I laughed out loud on this site!!!!
 
airbrasil
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:00 pm

I know Froniter flies the following routes for all A.318 and A.319 deliveries:

HAM-BGR-PHX

The plane usually come with a few lucky employees that also gets the chance to visit the Airbus plant in Hamburg. The plane comes in in full F9 Arrangement, with LIVETV's disconnected (bummer) and lots of pizza and coca-cola. The planes fly to PHX in order to have a maintenance check and also to operate the first revenue flight on the next day as PHX-DEN. FOr some reason Frontier gets a huge tax-break when it operates the first flight from PHX with some pax... by the way, December 6th, acft N924FR will be flying form Europe to Arizona for those spotters.. Daniel PHX/F9
 
USAFHummer
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:07 pm

I recall reading an article about a Tyrolean Dash-8-400 being delivered from Montreal to Austria, and the routing was something like Montreal-Goose Bay-Sondre Stromfjord (Greenland)-Keflavik-Glasgow-Innsbruck...or something similar along those lines...

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707CMF
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:19 pm

Nah, slingshot are only use for delivery flights at Elbonian Air

707
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:36 am

i would imagen they bounce there way around, like fly UK to iceland to greenland to canada to wherever there going, and so on. Occasionally we see Bombardier aircraft (Dash-8s, CRJs) pass throu here, ussually come to here to nome to eastern russia then off to wherever...

CanadianNorth
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Olympus69
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:00 am

Fox Bravo,

Only Americans think a slingshot is a small catapult. The device that David used to slay Goliath was a rock tied to a piece of string or other material, which one whirls around one's head and then releases - hopefully in the direction of the target.

To the rest of the world a small catapult is a catapult.  Smile
 
Olympus69
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:04 am

CanadianNorth.

Occasionally we see Bombardier aircraft (Dash-8s, CRJs) pass throu here

Where is 'here', Edmonton?
 
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aloha73g
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Fri Nov 28, 2003 2:59 am

Here are the pictures of how Hawaiian's 717s made it from California to Hawaii:


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Photo © AirNikon


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Photo © James Richard Covington, Jr



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Photo © AirNikon



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Bruce
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:02 am

Atlantic Southeast in Atlanta received some ATR from Air New Zealand Mount Cook Airways - now THAT must have been one hell of a trip!


bruce
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EMBQA
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RE: How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?

Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:35 am

Just like the pictures above of the 717.......They get 'Tanked'. Most Turboprops use a 'soft-bladder' style tanking system. The company I work for is involved in delivering several Saab 340's to Australia. The aircraft are tanked in BNA, then fly to LGB and get topped off, then fly non stop to HNL, then on to Fiji and finally Melbourne, AU.

Actually if you ever see an ATR dissembled for inspections, you can actually see where the tanking system ties into the normal fuel system.
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