KaiGywer
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US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:04 am

Does any US carriers fly to Scandinavia anymore? I wish these times would come back:


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“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:18 am

I don't think any do, any longer. In the past:

American (ORD-ARN)
Delta (JFK-ARN, JFK-HEL, JFK-CPH)
Pan Am (JFK-ARN/HEL/CPH/FBU)
TWA (JFK-ARN/CPH/FBU)
Northwest (MSP-FBU, JFK-CPH)

ContinentalEWR
 
Mitchell Gant
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:29 am

The problem with Scandinavia is that 1) The market sizes are relatively small compared to other European Points and 2) The traffic is highly seasonal. It is most difficult for U.S. carriers to make CPH/ARN/OSL work with a widebody, especially if they plan to fly year-round.

I think a Scandinavian service is within reason if a narrowbody type such as a 757-200 could operate the route year-round, with the possibility of an upgauge in the summer months. Unfortunately ARN and CPH are too far for a 757, and OSL would be a stretch from New York. Hubs like ORD or DTW or ATL require a widebody due to range, and history has proven the economics just don't work for U.S. domestics.
 
KaiGywer
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:34 am

ContinentalEWR, actually, NW flew into OSL as well. I don't know about FBU, which is now closed. But as the picture in my original post shows, OSL  Smile One of my professors in college used to fly DC10s for Sun Country into what was then GEN, the old charter airport, before it was made the main airport, and renamed OSL  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:17 pm

Didn't United use to fly to Stockholm?

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Jeff
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yegbey01
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:21 pm

AT some point DElta either operatyed a flight to Scandinavia or was contemplating a flight. I believe it was to ARN.

The Scandinavian market is highly seasonal. During the winter, most travellers from Scandinavia is outbound to Sun destinations
 
KaiGywer
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:26 pm

SAS has daily flights from ARN, OSL and CPH. Is the reason no US carriers fly there that you can get there either with code share or with maximum one connection?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
MAH4546
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:37 pm

SAS has daily flights from ARN, OSL and CPH. Is the reason no US carriers fly there that you can get there either with code share or with maximum one connection?

It more has to do with limited demand that is suffciently filled by Finnair and SAS. As well, United codeshares on all SAS trans-Atlantic flights and American on all Finnair trans-Atlantic flights.

SAS flies from CPH to SEA, ORD, EWR, and IAD; from OSL to EWR; from ARN to ORD and EWR.

Finnair flies from HEL to JFK and MIA.
a.
 
okko
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:44 pm

...and as far as I know about Finnair's services to US:

HEL-JFK
wouldn´t have sufficient demand from HEL. the bank feeding the JFK flight will have connections from TLL, RIX, VNO, LED, SVO. The problem really is the russian clientele --> which is a potential nightmare for basically anybody else.

HEL-MIA
I read they will only fly it for this winter season. and they only started the route to utilise the md-11s - following the problems with the asian market.

"fridens liljor"
okko
 
MHansen
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:51 pm

SAS Are also sharing a freighter with both SQ and KE once a week from ORD and EWR to CPH
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:21 pm

Yegbey01 - DL took over PanAm's services and flew for a couple of years to all three Scandinavian capitals plus Helsinki from JFK. However, the routes were deemed unprofitable and were axed one by one.

KaiGywer - the market in Scandiland is limited, and codesharing is a good way of feeding traffic without any real own investments.

However I have heard rumours of ATA starting lowcost services to all Scandinavian capitals out of MDW staring in April ...

 Wink/being sarcastic
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KaiGywer
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:23 pm

ATA? Flying what? I thought they only had 738s ?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
sk945
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:21 pm

AA ORD-ARN and DL JFK-ARN (both daily and operated with B762/B763), were suspended right after September 11th. Rumors are telling that one US airline are looking for NYC-ARN again. It could also depend on SAS have changed the ARN-EWR from daily to 4xweekly.
 
heisan67
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:53 pm

And OSL-EWR is down to 3 weekly flights.
 
MAH4546
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:16 am

HEL-MIA
I read they will only fly it for this winter season. and they only started the route to utilise the md-11s - following the problems with the asian market.


While I Have heard that two, they are now acquiring thier sixth MD-11 which makes it likely they will renew the service in the winter of 2004. Although the new MIA flights help utilize MD-11s, at the same time they reduced JFK from daily to 5x weekly. Miami has the largest Finnish population outside of Europe, so it is not just tourist ties.
a.
 
dutchjet
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:59 am

Over the years, many airlines have tried: NW introduced its European services with many flights to Scanadanvia (and Scotland, etc), PA had flights to all of the capital cities at one time or another, DL tried, AA tried, etc., etc. The problems are a small markets, seasonality, lots of connections available, aircraft that have the range to operate the routes are simply to big (this is a case where the proposed 757LR would have worked I think), and, more and more, unless an airline can offer daily service, they are not interested in the route.......without daily service, airlines lose full fare passengers it seems. Alliances and hubs have not helped either, NW will gladly fly you via Amsterdam (w/KL), United via Frankfurt (w/LH), etc, etc. Also, SAS and Finnair have rather good reputations in their home countries and the USA making it harder to compete.

There have been rumors that CO was interested in opening up a flight between Newark and "a Scandanavian capital" (Copenhagen or Stokholm I would guess) with a 762 (makes sense, smallest capacity long-haul airliner....the 757 does not have the range), but nothing ever came of it.
 
AA717driver
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AA CFO Resignation...

Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:21 am

Kaigywer--Thanks for the info on OSL. I did my first Int'l trip as L1011 FE into GEN and on to ARN. I never got into FBU but I heard is was really interesting, especially in the winter. I guess it has a sloping runway that wasn't very long and really became marginal when snow covered.TC
FL450, M.85
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: US Carriers To Scandinavia

Mon Dec 01, 2003 3:57 am

AA717driver ... you must have been with TWA at the time .. they moved the ops over to FBU after a while, I used to date one of your agents at the time .. Before TWA shut down, they changed to 767.

FBU wasn't sloping that much, but the runway was only 2200m (6000ft) and yes, things could get interesting in the winter. SAS flew FBU-EWR with a 767 year round, and once in a while had to make a fuelstop in Bergen. But they usually made it by leaving cargo and nonrevs behind ...

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