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Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 4:56 am


In general do charter airlines have higher loadfactors than normal scheduled airlines. Everytime I have flown with a charter airline the flight is usually completly full, as opposed to flying on a scheduled flight, where invariably there are empty seats.
 
DCAYOW
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:24 am

RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:06 am

Hi EA777,

Yes as general rule charters have higher load factors. Since fares are offered at significant discount, they need the high load factors to recover cost of operation.

The charters that don't break even are never offered again.
Retorne ao céu...
 
Rick767
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:12 am

UK charter carriers have average annual loads of 95%+ whilst their scheduled counterparts work on 75-80% typically (some are a bit less, while others are a bit more).

Last Summer I must have flown 10 flights in a row with 235 passengers on a 757 to Sunny Spain, not a seat free. More people on board when you take into account infants on laps. Most I had was about 250 once on a 757-200  Nuts
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:22 am

Hey Rick - when are you next flying, to where and on what series 737?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
planesarecool
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:26 am

Charters tend to have higher loads because they are holiday flights. You don't get that many people going on a holiday to the sun on schedule flights unless there is no other choice. Mainly because charter airlines are used for package holidays to Spain etc

-Stephen
 
Rick767
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:38 am

"Hey Rick - when are you next flying, to where and on what series 737?"

Early start tomorrow LGW-AMS-LGW-INV-LGW, 73G

Home for lunch  Big grin
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:50 am

Oh! I could have sworn you flew for FR, but clearly not. God knows where I got that from!

Do you like the 40-odd minute flights to AMS, or do you prefer longer legs (and hairless and slim)?  Wink/being sarcastic
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Guest

RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:59 am

Is Rick a pilot? or have a misunderstood what you guys are saying
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:40 am

Yeah, he flies 737s for Easyjet, seemingly from LGW.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Rick767
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:33 am

"Do you like the 40-odd minute flights to AMS"

The 40 minute sectors are a bit of a pain to be honest, I am used to 3 hour average sectors to the sun, flying back and heading home.

We do have a few 2-sector duties to be fair (I just never seem to get any!). Out of 22 weekday duty blocks at LGW, 13 are 2 sectors with the other 9 being 4 sectors.

In the Summer we had a couple of 6 sector duties which I did once, that was awful! We may get some of those again come April.

But my preference is definately for a LGW-ATH-LGW or a LGW-AGP-LGW. Take-off... feet up and it's all taken care of.  Big grin

"or do you prefer longer legs (and hairless and slim)?"

That would be telling Big grin
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:56 am

LOL! I guess you also get paid more with longer flights, if you're only paid once the brakes are released and then reapplied at your destination.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Rick767
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:30 am

We're on sector pay @ EZY rather than duty pay so actually doing more sectors is more lucrative. Captains get a nice £20 per sector with us F/Os on about £13 a sector, so if we do say LGW-BCN-LGW-BFS-LGW (4 sectors) that's £52 duty pay compared to £26 doing LGW-ATH-LGW (2 sectors), even though both mean roughly the same time on duty.

I'd still rather do the longer trips though! Duty pay is on top of the basic salary I know I'm going home with every month so I regard it as a bonus.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:45 am

Captains get a nice £20 per sector with us F/Os on about £13 a sector

In your case Rick, I'll bet that extra £7 per sector is justified by the captain having to put a cushion under you so you can see over the glareshield.  Big grin

Sorry, couldn't resist after seeing your post the other day boasting about how you can fit in a charter seat.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards,
Gordon.
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
Rick767
Posts: 2613
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:27 am

Gordon,

Actually I bring my booster seat with me. Can't reach the pedals like... but hey what are they actually for anyway? It's not as if engine failures ever actually happen right?!  Laugh out loud

I've probably just jinxed myself now - beware passengers flying to ZRH or LIN tomorrow!!

Now... what to spend my £52 on!

(Edit: Can't add 26 to 26!)

[Edited 2003-12-01 18:29:29]
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
planesarecool
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:25 am

Hate to sound rude Rick, but what is your average annual salary for being a pilot. I can imagine it'll be quite high (50k+), but i was just curious of a rough figure.

Also as a pilot (for any airline) do they only allocate you to fly from your selected airport, or can they send you all over the country to do flights?

Thanks alot!

-Stephen
 
Rick767
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:49 am

Stephen,

£50k would be nice.... maybe in a few years eh! Airline salaries in the UK and much of the world are no real secret, take a look at the PPJN Website and pick your airline.

For the easyJet figures, SFOs (like moi) get about £39,000 per annum basic plus flight pay (400 ish sectors a year at £12.37 a shot is another £5k on the basic).

After tax the all-important take-home pay is roughly £600 a week (£2,600 a month), although this varies depending on sectors flown of course (lots at the moment, since we have nowhere near enough pilots).

Being based at LGW means that generally that is where I will get flights from, but yes the company can allocate you on any flight on the network although your travel to and from the relevant departure airport will either be arranged or refunded.

So if I fly from STN/LTN or EMA and drive there and back, they will refund me at a mileage rate, if I need to do a flight from GLA they will pay me on a BA flight up there and back again after my return. Those situations are very rare though, far less common than they were in my previous airline.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:41 pm

Apologies if I sound rude, but why do you get paid flight pay? Surely you should only be paid the basic salary? Needless to say it's better to be paid more.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Rick767
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:48 am

James,

Most if not all airlines give some form of flight pay or duty pay to their pilots and cabin crew. I suppose it can be regarded as the differentiation between sitting on your butt at home and actually flying planes.

In Britannia we were paid duty pay at about £2.60/hr (from when we reported for duty until chocks-on after the final flight of the day). Doesn't sound like much but when you consider I was often doing 120 hours duty in the Summer months it's another £300 on the paypacket which is not to be sniffed at.

I suppose duty / flight pay is just a perk of the job. In the USA it is a huge deal as the basic salary payment is very low, while the per hour flight pay is very high. Ryanair copied this philosophy (from Southwest Airlines) and as such a Ryanair First Officer will get paid about £11,000 per year basic salary, but can expect to get about £20,000 a year in sector pay. With basic salary hikes to £17,000 in Year 2 and £22,000 in Year 3, then a Captaincy in Year 4 with a basic of £48,000, plus the £20k flight pay every year, they are easily among the best paid 737 pilots in the world.

The downside of that system is that if you are off sick or on leave you obviously get no sector pay and so don't go home with nearly as much.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:11 am

Aha, I see.

*Looks forward to when he qualifies as a barrister in the next year.* Big grin

[Edited 2003-12-02 20:12:52]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
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RE: Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors

Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:18 am

Just about every commercial flight has a weaker sister that re-positions the plane for the next flight. LGA to FLL on Friday evening is strong, but the FLL to LGA on Saturday morning is weak. So a scheduled flight will always be dragged down by weaker legs.

Charter only counts the one leg. You have to realize that there was probably an empty flight to get the aircraft to the originating point.