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flybynight
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NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:35 am

I believe NW (along with UA, AA and DL) have totally phased-out 727's. A lot of these 727's were built in the late 70's to around 1982. Obviously the 727 is larger than the DC-9, so is this the reason why NW has retired all it's 727's, but still flies DC-9's that are 30-37 years old. I would think the replacement for the 727 would be combination of the A320 and the 757, while the replacement for the DC-9 is also the A320, but primarily the A319 (At NW, that is).
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av8rphx
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:38 am

ahh... the weekly NW fleet replacement thread...
 
DLKAPA
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:43 am

And when the world saw Armageddon, three things remained...

Roaches
Michael Jackson's face
and NW DC-9's  Big grin
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
luv2fly
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:48 am

Well 727's require a 3 member cockpit crew, and the DC9's only need 2 people for the cockpit crew, also 3 engines burn more fuel than 2.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:51 am

Reasons for 727 retirement....
1) 3-person cockpit crew
2) overlap by A320 fleet capacity-wise
3) shorter range than A320
4) smaller fleet

Reasons for DC-9's to stay....
1) 2 person cockpit crew
2) relatively low-cycle for their age
3) DC-9-"2000" interior refurbishment, hushkits, etc
4) no suitable replacement
5) most cost-effective 100-seat non-RJ aircraft
6) fits well in NW's route structure


many more reasons for each.......but to each their own
 
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flybynight
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:24 pm

Natural DC-9 replacement for NW is the A319, even more so, the 717, or the new A318
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jetjack74
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:18 pm

This is like a bad rerun.
Made from jets!
 
Guest

RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:28 pm

Meaning no offense to anyone, haven't we done this thread already 87 times this year?

 
CO2BGR
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:41 pm

Until they are as old as the USAF 135s (some will be hitting 50 soon) NW will not replace the 9s.

on to a more serious note....
The 9 is built like a tank and it will keep on flying for a long time. The 135s opperate safely and the 9s do as well. There is no reason for NW to stop flying them as they are also totaly paid off and very economical. The is also no reson for the public to not fly them either as if they were as unsafe as some people here say they are the FAA would have grounded the fleet years ago.
There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:42 pm

Also, I could be wrong, but I believe Northwest has many DC-9's that are not really that old, like built around the mid to late 80's. I could be wrong.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:44 pm

That's the DC-10-30's Jeffery....

Last DC-9's (-50's) were produced in 79/80 until they switched over to MD-80's
 
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:46 pm

NW's DC-9's interiors are quite nice, especially compared to the beyond crapped-out interiors of US's B737 (including aircraft that were built in the early 1990s)...

Last DC-9's (-50's) were produced in 79/80 until they switched over to MD-80's.

Actually the DC-9-30 was produced until 1983ish (delivered to US Air).

[Edited 2003-12-03 05:49:29]
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:47 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE,

Thank you for the info. I was one number off there, ha ha ha. Anyway I agree with most others here, two instead of three equals great savings.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
Iflewrepublic
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:59 pm

87 times this year? Earlier this year it was practically 87 times a DAY.

I'm sorry, that was rude.

Iflewrepublic.
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flybynight
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:20 pm

My orginial thought wasn't on old DC9's, but why are relatively newer 727 going away relatively early in comparison.
And you guys, when the talk turns to NW, it usually will be concerning their fleet age since it is the most interesting topic in regards to NW.
Heia Norge!
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:59 pm

Flybynight, How is the fleet age the most interesting topic about NW. What else is there to know. So, for the record:

-NW has the one of the most flexible fleet in the industry.
-22% of their fleet consists of 80-119 seat category aircraft, whereas the industry average for this same category is 5%. The recent trend has been for aircraft with this seating capacity.
-NW DC-9s are completely paid for! Nothing owed. They pay for themselves. Why spend billions replacing a fleet and running the airline towards bankruptcy when you can have a safe, reliable, profitable aircraft.
-Northwest's fleet excluding the DC-9s averages 9.7 years, whereas the rest of the industry averages 10 years old, and growing older. Look for NW's fleet to start looking younger than the other majors, because it will be a while before new orders are taken and delivered to AA, CO, UA, DL, etc.
-NW will be retiring the DC-9-10s by the end of next year.
-NW's oldest DC-10-30 is N229NW was built in 1972, making the a/c aprox. 31 years old.
-NW's youngest DC-10-30s are N244NW/243NW and were built in 1988, making those aircraft about 15 years old(younger than some 762.
-NW's fleet currently consists of 16 747-400s, 12 747-200s, 12 747-200Fs (freighters), 4 A-330-300s, 22 DC-10-30s, 16 757-300s, 56 757-200s, 76 A-320s, 65 A-319s, 35 DC-9-50s, 12 DC-9-40s, 112 DC-9-30s, and8 DC-9-10s. The Jet Airlink fleet consists of 36 RJ85s, and 70 CRJs.
-NW will be taking delivery of the following aircraft the next few years, 10 A-330-300s,10 A-330-200s, 8 A-320s, 12 A-319s, and 59 CRJs.
-NW has options for 2 747-400s, 36 A-330-300s, 16 757-300s, 18 A-320s, and 29 A-319s. In the Jetlink fleet, NW has options for 175 CRJs.
-There are 551 aircraft in the NW fleet, 331 are owned, 220 are leased.
-99 aircraft are going to be delivered over the next few years.
-Most pax cannot tell the difference between a CRJ-MD80-DC9 or a 737! Maybe 2% of travelers on a DC-9 actually know how old the a/c is. And it is not like an old A/c is a bad thing. An aging fleet does not affect NW.
-AND NO, NW DOES NOT HAVE INTENTIONS TO REPLACE D9S WITH 717S AT THIS TIME!

The New American is arriving.
 
TriStar500
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:17 pm

You know, sometimes it could be interpreted as a sign of intelligence if the search engine is used before starting a topic... Big grin

Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:50 pm

There are 166 DC9's left in the NWA Fleet

The DC9-10's range in age from 1966 to 1967 (I think 5 left)

The DC9-30's range in age from 1966 to 1974 (I think 124 in fleet)

The DC9-40's range in age from 1967 to 1968 (I think 12 in fleet)

The DC9-50's range in age from 1976 to 1980 (I think 25 in fleet)

These numbers are not in stone. But they are very close. The NWA DC9 is the most reliable in the fleet. And the last Airbus crew to take an Airbus to the desert will come home on a DC9.

The DC9's are mostly owned and in turn has kept NWA as strong as possible during this horrible downtown. The company posted $46 mil profit for the 3rd quarter. More than any other legacy carrier in the US.

The Boeing 727 feet officially left last year after the NBA season. The last remaining 727's were in the VIP configuration for NBA/NHL charters. The 727's were removed from normal passengers operations in the spring of 2003. (I think) The last 727's to be reitired were built from 1977 to 1982. Some of the NBA 727's were obtained in 1992 from the estate of the former Eastern Airlines and were some of the last off the assembly line. (circa 1981 to 1982)
Many 727's went to Maxton NC to be parted out.


Hope this answers some questions.

Happy Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:54 pm

NWCOFLYER:

How right you are ! Thanks much for the numbers run down.

I personally love the DC9. Layovers are too short tho  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
BillElliott9
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:39 pm

NWCOFLYER: I hope you saved that list for tomorrows thread, and Friday's, and....Great information.
You can fight without ever winning but never really win without a fight.
 
nwa330tony
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:03 am

NWCOFLYER thanks for the info!!! can you tell me where you got it from also do you know of anywhere i can find other fleet info such as reg#'s
thanks, and once glad you posted that keeep it close as im sure youll have use for it in the next NWA thread lol!
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:11 am

4) no suitable replacement
The 717 is the perfect suitable replacement for the DC9.

Last DC-9's (-50's) were produced in 79/80 until they switched over to MD-80's

WRONG!!!, The last DC9 to roll off the assembly line was a -31 series delivered to USAir in 4/82 as N983VJ Now with Southeast Airlines as N933JK
Puhdiddle
 
JU101
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:26 am

Flybynight,

This is a question that i asked myself too. Other than Northwest, another airline that is replacing 727s before the DC9s is Jat Airways from Serbia.

JAT took delivery of the DC9-32 between 1970 and 1973. Some of the planes were sold to Northwest last decade, with nine remaining in the fleet. At this time, six remain in service on either regularly scheduled flights or on lease abroad. For JAT, the Boeing 727-200 deliveries began in 1974, with the last two made in 1981. Two 727s remain in service, however they only do charters to Mediterranean destinations, or eventual leases abroad.

The benefit of the DC9 over the Boeing 727 is cost of operation. The douglas birds require two people in the cockpit as opposed to three. Maintenance is probably easier for the DC9. Up to recently there were no suitable replacements for the DC9-32s, as opposed to the the 727. With a refurbished cabin interior, and hush kitted engines, the DC9s compare well in comfort to newer aircraft. Furthermore, the douglas birds for both companies are completely paid off. Therefore, each DC9 flight equates to solid profit for Northwest and JAT.

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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:07 am

Sorry, my bad... I wasn't aware that -30's were made up until 1983. I just knew that NW's youngest DC-9's were from 1979/1980. I assumed the DC-9 production stopped with the roll-out of the MD-80.....I was wrong....

"4) no suitable replacement
The 717 is the perfect suitable replacement for the DC9."

We argue this all the time, each airline has specific needs or requirements for their fleet. NW was at a turning point in the mid '90's. They had to make a decision on the DC-9 fleet. The option was either refurbish or get new equipment. They didn't have the cash to obtain new aircraft at the time, and the more prudent choice was to update the DC-9 fleet. Since they were required to Hush-kit them, there was no reason to dump them shortly thereafter. At the time, the 717 was not available, large RJ's were non-existant, therefore NW did not have an aircraft that was even in serious consideration.
 
AirDude66
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:35 am

The 717 is not an option for NW. Not really a suitable option for any major.
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:32 am

BillElliott9,

I did save it, I have decided to create a standard post that I will put on every NW DC-9 thread. I will add more info to the list.

NWA330Tony, I have a list of every DC-9 with reg and other info. E-mail me if you want me to send you the list. You can also look up each DC-9 indiviudally at the FAA web site.
The New American is arriving.
 
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flybynight
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:07 am

First, let me get the defensive part out of the way:
1 - What is wrong with asking a question about replacing 727's before DC-9's. SHOW ME WHERE THIS SPECIFIC TOPIC HAS BEEN DISCUSSED.
No where did I say anything bad about NW's fleet, for those of you so sensitive about those DC9's ( I like flying one them too, in fact those SAS DC-9's I flew on as a child were some of the first planes I flew on back in the early 70's)
2 - IF you don't like the question, stay the hell away from it, and let me here answers from people who think it is a good question ( such as JU101).
3 - Why would the 717 not be good for NW,Airdude66? Since the plane is similiar in dimsions to the DC-9, it would seem a good choice to replace a DC-9
Of course, NW is buying Airbus instead, so that partially answers that question.
Heia Norge!
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:19 am

Flybynight:

The reason that the 717s are not an option is:

1- NW has expressed that it does not want the 717. As recently as last month, Bernie Han, CFO at NW, clearly stated that it would be a while until a replacement order was made, and with that said, it would not be the 717.
2- Boeing has offered NW sweet deals and test planes, NW has responded to neither.
3- NW has multiple types of DC-9s (ie. -10, -30, -40, -50 series), each of which has a different seating configuration. The 717 only has one type (the -200), which is not adequate to replace the entire fleet.
4- NW simply does not even want to think about replacing them right now, they still have about 3 more years before they even need to think about making another order.

With that all said, I would like to see a 717 in NW colors one day, however, I would bet money on it that NW will not order the 717.
The New American is arriving.
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:20 am

Flybynight, if you search the archive, you will see that this topic comes up probably once every 2-3 weeks. It has been discussed to death.
"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
jeckPDX
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:44 am

I dont even know why I bothered to enter this forum seeing as 99% of the topics are regularly Boing 7E7-future product or A vs B, American A300s, or NW fleet replacemnets. Why may I ask is this necessary. A simple search will reveal the past 75 times this has been discussed.
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
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flybynight
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RE: NW 727's And DC9's

Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:11 pm

Once again, if you don't care for the subject, why are you reading it?
Also, where and when has my SPECIFIC question about the 727's being replaced before the DC-9 been asked? The question wasn't specifically about the damn age of the those DC 9's. I hear you when think the age of NW's fleet has been discussed a lot, but my question was more concerning the 727. Does it bother you that I am asking this question. Is it making your hair turn gray or giving you heartburn?
JeckPDX - People are going to discuss the subjects that are hot. What is more current and bigger than the potential launch of a brand new airplane? Since you live in Oregon, you might read the Seattle papers. Just about everyday there is an article about the 7E7. Would you consider this overkill?
Heia Norge!