touchdown99
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 7:39 pm

Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:38 pm

A glitch in Germanwings' IT department has resulted in the premature publication of their summer 2004 schedule - including as yet unannounced bases / routes and "dummy" rotations.

If these schedules become reality, we will see a new base at Berlin SXF where Germanwings will compete head to head with Easyjet on four routes. Ten routes are scheduled for SXF:

Berlin SXF - Paris
Berlin SXF - Athens
Berlin SXF - Nice
Berlin SXF - Barcelona
Berlin SXF - Rome
Berlin SXF - Budapest
Berlin SXF - Saloniki
Berlin SXF - Madrid
Berlin SXF - Cologne/Bonn additional flights
+ 2 unnamed destinations (judging from flight times, one is HEL)

Stuttgart - Dresden
Stuttgart - Ibiza
+ 2 unnamed destinations (judiging from flight times/Frequencies one could be Hamburg)


Cologne/Bonn has 10 new destinations, all of them unnamed. Only one is a daily service, the others are 3 or 4 times weekly. Destinations in the running according to the rumour mill are Palma, Antalya, St. Petersburg, Warszawa, Stockholm, Oslo, Alicante, Helsinki, Copenhagen. Already confirmed as a new destinations is Dublin. Frequencies to Budapest will be doubled sometime during the summer, Milan reduced to one daily flight.

Roughly calculating, Germanwings will need up to 18 aircraft to serve all these routes.

[Edited 2003-12-03 13:50:59]
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:41 pm

SXF-NCE - Excellent ! I wanted to go to BER this winter, but only DI offer direct flights (eeuwww been on them !) - I can wait till the summer on go on Germanwings.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:00 pm

SXF-Rome, interesting, it's in competition with Volareweb daily FCO-SXF.

Bad they will downgrading Milan to one daily flight. Last summer there were 4 CGN-Mlan (2 4U to MXP and 2 HXL to BGY). Last September HXL left BGY-CGN and now 4U will reduce to 1 daily flight.

 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:04 pm

Are there no German LCC operations to LIN ? I know Easyjet flies ORY and LTN to LIN - is there some kind of restriction from Germany ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
touchdown99
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 7:39 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:47 pm

Germanwings would have LCC-competition on almost all routes from Berlin:

Athens: Easyjet, Gexx
Barcelona: Air Berlin, Easyjet
Nice: Easyjet
Paris: Easyjet
Rome: Air Berlin, Volareweb
Saloniki: Gexx
Madrid: None
Budapest: None

Giving it a second thought and despite the content of the website (which was quickly changed after the scoop was discussed on some German forums), I am not too cinvinced that it will really happen. It would require a massive expansion with up to 7 additional aircraft nad a massive battle with Easyjet. Maybe Germanwings will just concentrate to boost their STR und CGN bases where the new programme will require 4 aircraft alone. This would match the suggested 40% expansion for 2004. Let's wait and see.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:45 am

although it seems unusual that a low cost carrier would enter direct competition with another LCC, that is exactly what 4U has been doing since its first days. when i remember correclty, TUI came up with HLX and Lufthansa managed to introduce 4U even before HLX.
then, HLX announced to grow at STR, again LH managed to ramp up 4U operations at STR before 4U did.
so i would not rule out 4U trying to protect the Berlin market for LH, or at least to keep pax "in-house" (well, if you can call 4U and Lufthansa "in-house").

and i don´t think it´d be a problem for 4U to get the required additional a/c. LH has still many grounded a/c and when they introduce their new concept for the european network, which will probably result in a higher a/c utilization, it will free up more a/c which could be passed on to 4U.

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
BDRules
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 6:31 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:19 am

Is there nothing mentioned about EMA within these Germanwings destinations????

Regards

Stu
 
gkirk
Posts: 23347
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:40 am

EMA wont get Germanwings whilst LH is at BHX.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Guest

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:42 am

Any news on new HLX routes?

Tim
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:57 am

i am a great fan of both germanwings and hlx. they both provide uncomplicated service and operate almost excusively from and to major airports close to the city center and not like ryanair who fly to village x.
i am very pleased by this development, and i think they go in competition with easyjet at CGN anyway, who will as i have heard also set their base there.
one thing that is for sure is that germanwings and hlx are both the kind of LCC that i think will make it in the long run. decent fares, nice routes, non intrusive staff, no gimmicks like PTV's. since i fly them both on a almost monthly basis i'D say they both have very nice load factors, so expansion is something that makes very much sense.
this expansion is one of many reasons why i would be selling my ryanair stock more sooner then later.
10=2
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:19 am

Germanwings again applied for slots at Amsterdam (twice daily Zurich and twice daily Stuttgart) for Summer 2004. However they also applied for slots for the 2003-2004 winter schedule but decided not to fly to AMS
 
vfw614
Posts: 3171
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:35 pm

@ Boieng747-400

Without double-checking, new HLX routes for the summer 2004 so far are AFAIK:

Stuttgart - Palermo
Stuttgart - Bilbao
Stuttgart - Valencia
Hanover - Palermo

 
Guest

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:50 am

I heard HLX might launch Manchester-Bilbao is that true??
Are HLX pulling out of Klagenfurt and Geneva during the summer or staying there?

Tim
 
vfw614
Posts: 3171
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:36 pm

Klagenfurt is supposed to be a year round destination. Seems to be doing pretty OK as HLX has also launched flights from Stuttgart and Hanover to Klagenfurt.

Geneva reportedly has had pretty poor loads since the start in September. I wouldn't be surprised if it would be axed.
 
GeneralA
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 6:11 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:47 pm

Stuttgart-Olbia is planned as well !
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:37 pm

Hello

It now seems that HLX is dropping Geneva, at least for the summer.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:54 pm

For sure I hope to see CGN-ARN.
If this expansion does happen at SXF I can see Easyjet also start to get active in Cologne. I for sure would love to see that.
I do not see such a bright future for HLX though, their network does not seem nearly as stable as does 4U's. Since their launch they stopped serving LTN (I hope Easy will sooner or later fill the gap) and BGY and soon they will stop MAD again (is that actually confirmed?) amongst others.
It seems as if they are still looking out for their position but are not successful until now.
HLX would have had the chance to position itself if they would have started getting all the business passengers from up north (Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway) which should run year-round rather then running after 4U which is probably now also gonna grab Scandinavia (I sure hope so...).

Max
 
richardw
Posts: 3138
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:03 pm

Would like to see flights to LGW.
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:04 pm

It would be nice to get Germanwings here in Helsinki too, if that really is true! Nice airline and it has one of the best liveries on their aircrafts too.

Anyway, it will be tough competition on Berlin-Helsinki route. At the moment Finnair has monopoly on this particular route but from the beginning of March SK's Finnish subsidiary Blue 1 will start serving this same route on a daily basis. I don't know yet what airport they will use at Berlin but I guess it will be Tegel. Of course it is also true that LCCs and full fare-carriers doesn't actually compete on the same market segment so I believe there is room for Germanwings too on this route.

FinnWings
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:16 am

Has there actually been any information about the planned alliance which was to be set up by Germanwings?
Wasn't there any talks to cooperate with Snowflake and bmi Baby (Star Alliance friends...)?

Max
 
D-AIFB
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2001 6:35 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:17 pm

Germanwings just published the new destinations ex Cologne/Bonn CGN:

From CGN to

PMI Palma de Mallorca
FAO Faro
WAW Warschau/Warsaw
ARN Stockholm
OSL Oslo
HEL Helsinki

and, that´s a little bit surprising, they´ll start service to Lufthansa´s 2nd hub:
MUC Munich


source: faktum.at and touristik aktuell
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:04 pm

CGN-MUC? We already have around 16-20 services day on that route, is LH going to reduce services there or is the demand so high?

SailorOrion
 
Paulianer
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:15 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:09 pm

Stuttgart - Hamburg route would make sense, although Deutsche BA opened that rout in competetion with Lufthansa some weeks ago...

And the CGN-HAM route works very well for HLX....

Hope to see Germanwings regular at HAM and not only for their maintenance visits  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Greetings
Tobi
Tobias Rose - Hamburg (HAM/EDDH) & (XFW/EDHI) - Canon EOS D60 - ICQ: 235621277 - MSN: Tobias.Rose@gmx.de
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:59 am

It was about time that 4U released the news that they will start serving ARN.
What can I say now?!? I'm happy. Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Max
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:03 am

Please airlines! Fly to Marseille, big, modern airport, 2nd biggest city in France, and almost no european flights. Why Nice? Train takes me 4 hours from Marseille........ help......
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:04 am

On their website I can not find any information about when they will launch those flights. I guess it will be with the summer schedule but as the example with DUB shows it is not necessarily so...

Max
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:55 pm

I just had another look and now that Germanwings will start CGN-MUC I guess they will kill dba on that route. And sooner or later they will kill the airline no matter how much Wöhrl works on it. Dba just seems doomed.

Max
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:02 pm

Max,
I tend to agree with you regarding the DBA issue. In order to have at least a slight chance to succeed with your airline nowadays, it seems you either have to

1. become part of an airline alliance (as a full partner or feeder),
2. serve niche markets or
3. undercut prices of your competition by lowering your production costs and thus, ticket prices.

DBA has now shed its former low-cost carrier image and is trying to become Germany's second business airline (once again). But with prices close to LH's Eco class fares on most domestic routes and no membership in a worldwide frequent flyer scheme, I don't see any reason to choose DBA if LH, HLX or 4U are offering about the same, or, in case of the two LCC's, even lower prices.


[Edited 2003-12-18 12:06:04]
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
scf158
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:22 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:34 am

I guess germanwings has no choice now that Easyjet will have a base in Berlin soon! gotta have some competition... strange, the routes are almost the same as EJ
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Major Summer 2004 Expansion Ahead For Germanwings

Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:46 am

I hold a booking code in my hands for a return-flight on Germanwings to Stockholm-Arlanda in april... I never thought this would ever become true!

Max

Who is online