keesje
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What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:51 am

What will be announced ?

any airline surprices kept secret for the show ?

certainly this baby will shine ...


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"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
behramjee
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:53 am

ATWONLINE news reported 2 weeks ago that QATAR AIRWAYS is expected to steal the show with an order for 12 B 773ERs announcement...any update on this?

I highly doubt that EK will announce more orders but may announce more destinations or go into detail about its JFK plans for next summer and other big upcoming routes.
 
MEA321
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:31 am

I highly doubt that Qatar Airways will order the 777. It doesn't make a lot of sense. An airline like Qatar Airways would not go ahead and shoot themselves in the foot with such a decision.

First of all, there is the fleet commonality issue. Why would Qatar Airways order Boeing 777 and spend the money to train its pilots when they could stick to the Airbus cockpit and reduced training costs.

Secondly, there are not that many advantages of buying the 777 compared to the A340/A330. Airbus has been proven to be more fuel efficient, range is comparable for both aircraft, cargo capacity is about even...

Finally, Qatar has been a prominent customer with Airbus, their entire fleet is comprised of Airbus aircraft! In fact, most of the Middle East has been leaning towards Airbus.

If Qatar wants to continue to prosper they should stick to their current plan, otherwise it could be troublesome for them down the road. What does everyone else think about this??

MEA321
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Marco
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:35 am

If only they could postpone the airshow for another week, I could catch it! It's an amazing event.
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Thales007
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:40 am

MEA321-

"Secondly, there are not that many advantages of buying the 777 compared to the A340/A330. Airbus has been proven to be more fuel efficient, range is comparable for both aircraft, cargo capacity is about even..."


While it may not make sense in terms of commonality, in terms of the A346 vs. 773ER, the 773ER has a slight technical edge; especially given that it has done spectacularly in testing while there are grumblings from airlines such as CX about the A346's current performance

Hard to be sure if QR will choose to go the 773ER route, but they most definitely will not be "shooting themselves in the foot with such a decision"

-Regards,
thales
 
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scbriml
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:52 am

while there are grumblings from airlines such as CX about the A346's current performance

What grumblings? Let's have some facts to back up this claim.
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RiverVisualNYC
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:57 am

If Qatar orders any Boeing products, I am sure the driving force will have been lobbying by the US government rather than product superiority to the existing Airbus fleet. As some of you may know, Qatar is being built up as the center of US military operations in the Gulf, receiving all the units and operations that were formerly in Saudi Arabia. As has been evident with Israel, countries receiving US military aid and investment often must take with it the "Buy American" sales pitch from the US government and its corporate clients. So to some extent, a Boeing order by Qatar would be just a return to the US on its investment in that country.
 
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scbriml
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:11 am

So to some extent, a Boeing order by Qatar would be just a return to the US on its investment in that country

The situation in Qatar is totally different from Israel where the US basically bankrolls the country. The fact of the matter is that the US needs Qatar a whole lot more than Qatar needs the US!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
MEA321
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:26 am

Many other examples can be traced to examples of U.S. foreign relations being related to aircraft orders...

Saudi Arabian first and foremost...They have not a single airbus aircraft in their fleet. They have 23 Boeing 777 aircraft and about 5 Boeing 747s. Coincidently they are also one of the biggest allies with America in the Middle East, even though America constantly puts them down as being soft on terror and they have put countless allegations on Saudi Arabia.

Another that comes to mind is of course EL AL, with an entirely Boeing fleet...Also a big partner with America.

Just to name some others....British Airways has its entire longhaul fleet Boeing...The U.S. scored some big Boeing orders with Kuwait Airways...Almost the entire Pacific Rim which has been a gold mine for Boeing, due to heavy trade dependencies with the U.S.

MEA321
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:33 am

MEA321

Saudia Arabian airline do operate Airbus aircraft in the form of A300s which are operated mainly on their domestic network.
 
KL808
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:35 am

I am also a bit skeptical with regards to QR ordering the B773ER, dont get me wrong here, I know its a great aircraft, but it just doesnt seem to fit in the QR fleet. Economically that is, unless Boeing comes up with a sweetner package of some sorth.

QR is better off sticking with its A345/6.

Also on a side note this might be the time QR firms up its A380's.


drew
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RiverVisualNYC
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:41 am

On a related note, when I first moved to the UAE in 1996, Abu Dhabi was crawling with executives from US aerospace manufacturers trying to get the fighter contract that was eventually awarded to the F-16. In fact, on my first flight into AUH I was seated next to a former US Navy fighter pilot who was the marketing rep for McDonnell Douglas, who was there to push the F-15. The marketing reps would often sit around for days in their hotel rooms or hang out in the pubs, waiting to get a meeting with some Sheikh or another, anyone who was deemed to have influence over the bid selection. Their companies were also required to invest in an offset program if they wanted to win any business, which meant that a certain amount of money had to be invested in the local economy before they could be on the short list for the deal. (In fact, a friend of mine was a lab technician at the high end medical clinic Lockheed bankrolled as its part of the offset program.) Far from a solely commercial endeavor, I believe there is alot of involvement in offsets by the US government and many of these deals seem to be brokered through the embassy and well-connected Washington lawyers, who were also frequent visitors to Abu Dhabi during this time frame. In the end these deals often have little to do with who is offering the best product at the best price. Just some insight into the process from a casual observer, for anyone who's interested  Smile
 
gigneil
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:54 am

What grumblings? Let's have some facts to back up this claim.

This is a pretty well documented fact. The A340-600, while it met its performance claims, did so with added weight.

Airbus had to improve future revisions with a revised wing.

Its nothing that hasn't been solved, but CX did get the short end of the stick.

N
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:59 am

I should have added to my story above that while this is a military example, the contracting for civil aircraft in the Gulf is likely to be very similar, as most airlines are owned by either the government or the royal family of the country in question.
 
KL808
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:06 am

True, thats how things are, however, are EK and QR politically connected in that way that their aircraft orders are being manipulated?

I always thought that EK had no strings attached, now im not sure though if QR is run the same way?


drew
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RiverVisualNYC
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:18 am

Don't know about QR, but EK is owned and managed by the Al-Maktoums, the royal family of Dubai, which along with Abu Dhabi is one of the 2 most important Emirates in the UAE federation. According to the CIA factbook, both the Prime Minister and the Vice President of the UAE are members of the Al-Maktoum family, so is the UAE's Minister of Defense. I don't believe EK has any shareholders who are unaffiliated with the royal family and by implication the UAE government, which is why no one can figure out how much money (if any) they really make. That said, it's a great airline, they just don't have to play by the same rules as UA, AA, etc.
 
keesje
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RE: What Will Be New At The Dubai Airshow Next Week?

Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:52 pm

Will Star announce a preference for any of the 70-100 seaters ? perhaps an LOI ?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway