SPLOBKrakow
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:41 am

Toronto Island Airport

Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:09 pm

Just wanted to know how the members of a.net feel about the Toronto Island Airport?
There has been some controversy about whether the bridge connecting the isalnd with the rest of Toronto should be build.
The bridge would hava a positive impact on Toronto's economy. There was a deal signed regarding a new airline that would be based on the island if the bridge was build. This proposed airline was to sing a descent size contract with Bombardier. And since Bombardier is not doing too well at this point it might be a good way to give them a small boost.

Just in general what are the thoughts and feeling about the isalnd airport?And how does the airport contribute to Toronto's economy?

Does anyone know how many or what types of flighs leave from the airport and what types of flights are comming in.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Toronto Island Airport

Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:12 pm

How high are the number of bizjet movements at the airports?Seems perfectly designed for some of the smaller ones.But what is the largest airliner that can be accommodated?Dash8 or so?
 
Rattibone
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:54 pm

Donder,

Under a triparte agreement between the Government of Canada, Government of Ontario and the City of Toronto, there is a jet ban imposed on YTZ since 1983. No jets except medivacs are allowed to fly into YTZ.

This airport has been a hot topic here in Toronto the last month or so. A new mayor has come in and part of his promises was to kill a bridge link project that began two weeks ago. Prior to his election, the previous Toronto council approved the construction and an agreement was reached with the three governments to build it. You need the consent of all three governments to make any improvements to YTZ. Yesterday however the newly election council and mayor voted against the bridge construction. Now any construction that began will be halted until further notice.

That's just a small piece of what has gone on at that airport recently. Go to www.thestar.com and do a search and you can get caught up.

Also the traffic that flies in and out of YTZ is mostly private and around 10-15 Air Canada Jazz Dash 8 flights to YOW and YUL.
 
Mark_D.
Posts: 1360
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 9:55 am

RE: Toronto Island Airport

Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:05 pm

Given the hefty (and often slightly vociferous  Smile ) representation weighing in on the part of Toronto crew around here, it is surprising that this sad disgrace latest turn of developments with Toronto's besieged Island bridge project hasn't prompted much of a response yet.

It's bad news for so many people --Bombardier and REGCO guys of course, just about all the regional intercity travelers in Ontario and Southern Quebec and maybe even New Brunswick, PEI and Nova Scotia. An intercity travelers to and from Toronto from most of the U.S. Eastern Seabord and MidWest as well. Not to mention most of the citizens of the Greater Toronto area generally, who'd benefit indirectly even if they didn't make use of the Island airport themselves.

The decision benefits so few --just a few really-rich Toronto Harbourfront property owners. And Mr. Mayor and a few city councillor buddies, as well as a few Liberal Party caucus (and cabinet) members in Ottawa, who may have personal friends among those really-rich Toronto Harbourfront property owners and may have felt swayed by those allegiances when making the recent decision.

The whole thing seems quite 'Banana Republic' !



As for the few dozen or so weekly Dash 8 AC Jazz flights working there now and shuttling to and from YOW, let's at least hope nobody pulls the plug on that one too anytime soon .


Ah okay, Rattibone beat my post by a few minutes and clarified things nicely. Good to see Torontonian input here after all  Smile (P.S. no AC Jazz Dash 8 flights to and from YUL and YTZ though, alas. YOW and that's all she wrote)

[Edited 2003-12-05 10:10:02]
 
atpcliff
Posts: 108
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:42 pm

Hi!

My wife's from YYZ, which I've visited a lot (and flown into a number of times, in the front of the aircraft-the very front). I've also visited the island quite a few times.

I think that, overall, a bridge to the island/airport would be better than not having a bridge.

It's very similar to the Meigs field, ORD park vs. airport debate.

I think that only quiet aircraft should be allowed into the island airport, and on a restricted schedule (no night flights, etc.).

I would like feedback on my views, especially from anyone that lives in YYZ.

Cliff
DTW

PS-I'm VERY excited about the light rail line from downtown Toronto to YYZ.
TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
 
AlekToronto
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:04 pm

hey guys..as someone who lives in Toronto and lives on the Harbourfront of that city I think that the stink over the Island Airport is rather amusing really.
Personally I don't see how a bridge to the Island will really benefit the Airport.
I mean look at it this way - the current ferry to the island takes a whole 3 mins. I used to fly out of YTZ a lot when Air Ontario (now JAZZ) used to fly to Montreal. The flights were never full. Now there are only flights to Ottawa going and even those are not doing so hot, but are subsidized by political types.
Honestly several airlines in the past have tried service out of the island with little succcess, the people of Toronto, business travelers included just dont want to fly turboprops - they would rather catch the bus to YYZ to get on a jet.
How much research has this new Airline done on demand from the Island? I have this feeling that even if they went ahead with offering service from YTZ to 10 close cities - they just won't do so well, everyone I know will still go to Pearson (YYZ). I mean if demand is there why not start now? What difference does a bridge make? I really don't understand the fuss...there is nothing stopping this Airline from starting now, its not like YTZ is crowded! Of course if the bridge is built it will be done in the typical efficient Toronto fashion - over budget and over schedule.

The reality is that although building a bridge will have short term economic benefits - if Toronto could get their act together and clean up the Harbourfront and make it a place people want to visit and live at (like Chicago for example) the economics are more advantageous and finally Toronto would have something nice to look at on the water!

cheers.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:03 am

I live downtown. I frequently go to Ottawa and I love the service eventhough it's a Dash8.

Unless they build that train link, I think nothing wrong with expanding the Isalnd Airport
 
Olympus69
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:46 am

Alek,

The ferry service to YTZ is adequate for the present level of service to/from that airport but doesn't have the capacity to cater for the much higher demand that would result from REGCO's services. With the Dash 8-400s that they would be using, flights between YTZ and YUL/YOW would take a lot of traffic away from AC's Rapidair service to YUL and YOW.

The problem with the ferry, apart from its small size, is that the parking lot on the mainland side is small with no room for expansion - though I suppose not many people would drive their own cars. Also, on the airport side one has to walk a hundred yards or so to get to the terminal. There is also the waiting time for the ferry to consider - even though it's only about 15 minutes between trips.
 
donreith
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:01 am

alekToronto,

I agree with you. I don't see how a bridge is going to get more people out to this airport, especially with a rail link to Pearson now in the works. I have a hard time believing that a bridge (or lack of one) enters into any part of the decision of whether to fly out of YTZ. That decision is based on destinations served, flight times, cost, and aircraft type (prop vs. jet). It surprises me that this point has been lost in the debate. I'm not sure that the "if they build it they will come" mentality will work in this case.

Now, a project that would be interesting is finding a way to get a GO train to YHM. That get's the folks in Hamilton some better transit as well as those of us in GTA a real alternative to YYZ.
 
boac707
Posts: 273
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:30 am

There is/was a group called something like Regional Airline Holdings that was set to order 45 Dash8-400 to start flying all over the place from YTZ.

There are a number of legal ramifications for the City of Toronto for overturning the decision to go ahead with the bridge. The lawsuits mentioned are valid for the most part. The Port Authority would be successful in having the City re-imburse them for construction costs already undertaken and the penalties they face in cancelling construction contracts already awarded. This is above and beyond the punitive damages that can be awarded to a lot a players in this.

The City's insurance will not cover all the lawsuits awards so the taxpayers will be on the hook...probably for about $300 million..
smokey classics to the end of time
 
Inbound
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:34 am

if they build that bridge, all those flight students (previously including me) won't have a good excuse for being 15 minutes late for their bookings
hehe.
Maintain own separation with terrain!
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:07 am

Distance wise how far is the island from the mainland??? How long of a bridge are they talking about???

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
SPLOBKrakow
Topic Author
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:04 am

Toronto is expanding, therefore both the controvercial brige and the train connecting Union Station and Pearson are necessary. I'm just wondering what is so bad about this bridge. It might bring in a little more air traffic to the water front. There will be no jets flying in therefore it make no difference for the habrourfront residents. And this can lead to an increase of jobs, in the airport itself and also in Bombardier. As of now it looks to be a good idea.

As far I know the main reason for building the bridge is to connect Toronto to to other major cities in the US. Not that Toronto is not connected to mojor cities via Pearson but this will alow businessmen to come driectly into the downtown area, without having to travel from Peason to downtow. And all Toronto residents know that a trip from YYZ to downtown can get very lenghty.

 
northstardc4m
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:20 pm

YTZ and noise is a joke... people complain all day long about "noisy airliners" and yet several studies done in the condo buildings affected have shown extremely low noise levels inside the condos in a normal "closed" (A/C on, windows and doors closed) room. Traffic on the Gardiner Expressway was deemed to be much more of a noise pollution concern then either YTZ or the traffic going to and from it. Of course these studies have been ignored/hidden/put in Appendex 333028974A/filed away in room 999... etc

Also people complain on and on about bigger planes making more noise while they allow the noisiest GA aircraft into YTZ without batting an eyelash. The noise levels produced by the Jazz Dash 8s is much lower than a good portion of the other traffic using that airport. However back in 1988, several parties lobbied the stupid weight based limitations be replaced by a noise level based limit was brought to a unsucessful end by some of the very same groups now lobbying against the bridge. Air Ontario and British Aerospace at the time demonstrated the BAe 146-200 at YTZ and showed its sideline noise levels were well below that of some of the other aircraft using YTZ. If the limits had been dropped at that time, Air Ontario would of bought the 146 and flown YTZ-YOW/YUL with them along with replacing the remaining F.28 fleet (this was about a year before Dryden). Didn't happen of course...

What's happened with the Bridge is it became an election issue, but the issue that was attached to it was "expansion of the island airport". The bridge had nothing to do with the expansion on its own, but an expansion was proposed to take place after the bridge was built. So basically Story A (airport expansion) attached to index for story B (bridge). Now Mayor Miller has stepped into the deep end with canceling it but ill wait and see if he can swim or not, its going to get ugly in any case.

In 25 years i expect YTZ to be another waterfront park... another great airport canned by local special interests...
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Olympus69
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:29 pm

Distance wise how far is the island from the mainland??? How long of a bridge are they talking about???

Greg,

The shipping channel between the Airport and the mainland is about 400 feet wide. The bridge would have been a lift bridge to allow ships to pass through and would be about 500 feet long I think.

 
cytz_pilot
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:10 pm

I guess having my name as CYTZ Pilot, I should add something... Smile

I have 150 flight hours out of TCCA, so perhaps my desire for the bridge (and something new and exciting to happen to the airport) comes from pure nostalgia. I've been following the whole bridge issue for awhile, and it angers me that in one day of council debate, a bunch of people who have nothing to do with aviation can shrug off what thousands of CYTZ employees, pilots and students have been wanting for for decades.

It seems to me, that if the bridge doesn't go through, the future for the airport looks dead. The Port Authority already loses lots of money on the airport, if countless millions more are lost, what is the real benefit of keeping the airport open? Hundreds will lose their jobs, and hundreds of students will be out on their own...Buttonville, Oshawa and Burlington aren't exactly 'close', especially for transit users like me.

If it should get cancelled, there is the issue of who gets charged with all the bills for the half-built bridge. Either the taxpayers or the Port Authority. Yup, it could come down to the taxpayers or a government entity (funded by taxpayers anyway) paying hundreds of millions of dollars NOT to build a bridge which could boost the business economy of the city. Logical!!!

It amazed me recently how much people rallied against the airport...the minute Miller started his chant, all of a sudden the airport got some kind of stigma to it. Now many people not only want to see the bridge cancelled, but the airport closed. People who don't live anywhere near the airport are starting to foam at the mouth about it! (metaphorically)

All in all, even though I don't exactly see how they're going to make a large regional expansion to such a small airport, I'd like to see the bridge. That massive ferry spewing out diesel fumes and charging $2.50 each way (it's tough being a student there!) is certainly not ideal!

But a funny addition...I remember back before the election, Miller ran a newspaper ad saying 'An expansion to CYTZ will be like an air show every day', and the picture was a PhotoShopped 737-200 cloned about a hundred times over the Inner Harbour. I looked at it and said, 'Wow that would be so cool!!!!!!!'  Smile

Chris
 
yow
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:59 am

Very well said Cytz_pilot. I'm all for the brige link and also for REGCO to sue the pants off the city for catering to these lie-filled, special-interest groups.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:08 am

hey guys..as someone who lives in Toronto and lives on the Harbourfront of that city I think that the stink over the Island Airport is rather amusing really.
Personally I don't see how a bridge to the Island will really benefit the Airport.


I agree with you. I also live at Harbourfront and fully support expansion of the airport. However, YTZ (which loese about $1M pa) does not need a bridge to expand....it just needs an entrepreneur who will add flights. City Express flew 500k passengers a years in 1988 with the existing infrastructure...YTZ pax counts are now down to about 80k.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:13 am

This bridge decision is another manifestation of NIMBY. The issue is supposed to be about noise, which is why jets are banned. But you can live in Markham right next to Buttonville airport and the noise footprint of jet activity there is microscopic. There are many jet movements everyday there and wealthy homeowners have never complained about the jet activity. Outside, you hear the jet for a few sections and then it's gone. Inside you hear nothing. Keep in mind that these same protestors would prefer if Pearson itself was located in the middle of Hudson's Bay, if possible. With no bridge there, either.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
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yyz717
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:21 am

I remember back before the election, Miller ran a newspaper ad saying 'An expansion to CYTZ will be like an air show every day', and the picture was a PhotoShopped 737-200 cloned about a hundred times over the Inner Harbour.

That same pic was also the basis of his election brochure! It was such nonsense....732's would NEVER fly to YTZ anyway. I think he won the election in part based on false information about Island Airport expansion.

In 25 years i expect YTZ to be another waterfront park... another great airport canned by local special interests...

No, I disagree. The Island Airport is very contaminated (as are all airports). It would cost an estimated $1.2B to clean up the land to make it suitable for a public parkland. No one has $1.2B.....so the airport must remain open as an airport or be abandoned.

I agree that if we were doing it all over again, we should not builld an airport on the island. However, there IS an airport though....so we should keep it since the costs of decommission are too expesnive.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:40 am

Hey AlekToronto, YEGBEY01 and CYTZ-pilot.....maybe we should all get together for a beer sometime since we're all at Harbourfront.  Big grin

I thought I was the only Harbourfront resident in favour of YTZ expansion. I guess there are 4 of us. Unless one of you is a spy for David Miller.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:59 am

Yyz717

You bet! anytime.
 
Olympus69
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:31 am

Cytz_pilot,

I have a sentimental attachment to the Island Airport as I got my PPL there in 1967 - back in the days of the Wong brothers Central Airways - nicknamed the 'Chinese Airforce'.

I'm a Lakeshore resident - not a Harbourfront one. I'm totally in favour of a bridge. However it looks like its D-E-D dead as Mayor Lastman once said.  Smile

Incidentally, what 'half built bridge'? They haven't even started construction on the actual bridge. Also 'massive ferry'? The so-called cabins wouldn't even hold the passengers from a Dash 8-400. Back in my student days the fare was quite low - especially as students and airport employees got a discount.
 
northstardc4m
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:36 am

apparently there has been work started on the bridge, 3 weeks ago. I betcha they moved one paving stone or something, just enough to make the contracts binding. The contractor had said he's gonna sue, so probably as soon as Miller won the election he made sure all his ducks were lined up.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
cytz_pilot
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:20 am

Olympus,

By 'half built bridge', I meant that even though very little has been built, the way has been paved with expensive environmental assessments, the hiring of contracters to design and build it...from an expense point of view, it's very likely that between 1/2 to 2/3 of the expenses towards the construction of the bridge have already been paid. (I'm not sure of this though!!! I just know all the pre-planning that has to go in to this sort of challenge).

But yes you are right about the ferry...it isn't big passenger wise, but you can get a couple big fuel trucks on.

Chris
 
John
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:57 am

How long are the runways at YTZ? Less than 5,000 feet?
 
planemaker
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:04 am

Hey guys,

You better start reading the WHOLE article in the Star, Globe or the Post. No one can start ANY legal action because... the Federal Government still is holding on to TWO permits. YES, TWO PERMITS. So since the permits haven't been issued no one can start building anything or else thy are in legal trouble. If you read council's motion it requested the Federal Government NOT to approve the bridge construction - and it is now completely in the Feds hands. If the Feds do not issue those two permits then it the bridge is a dead issue.

Second point, RegCo could have easily of started service using ATR-72's (there are a ton of them in storage) at a fraction of the cost of the Q400's. Yes, they are not as quiet in the cabin nor as fast, but for most of the routes that RegCo could have flown the speed difference would not have mattered. Plus, to state the obvious, they are a heck of a lot cheaper than new Q400's - like by $15 million+.

As some people have said, a bridge is not going to make or break an airline out of the island. The Deluce's are no fools and they tried to stack everything in their favour - a new terminal, a bridge and chose the Q400 only because it is built in Toronto and they believed that Bombardier would apply pressure to the politicians (which they did do - don't forget the land transfer deal to the City at Downsview station that they held up). They didn't get the bridge but what is the real reason why they don't go ahead with their airline - maybe not the original size anticipated but if their market studies showed that there was a definite market, then what is holding them back from serving it?

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
AlekToronto
Posts: 321
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:43 pm

hey guys...

I guess this whole Island Airport thing really got out of hand during the election and of course once elected city council had no choice but to vote against it. I especially found the one Miller Flyer with 20 B737's flying to the island quite humorous (and ridiculous..as if that would happen?) and showed what Miller was capable of in his bid to win. In this city full of other much more important and distressing problems why the airport became such an issue I will never understand.
Personally I don't care either way, call me cynical but somehow I think that if all along there was demand for more service from the island either Air Ontario (JAZZ) or someone would have started service with or without a bridge.
Fact is that JAZZ cut service to almost nothing and past attempts have failed - yes the island airport is close, but most Torontonians that travel don't seem to care for it.
This whole REGCO thing doesn't seem to solid to me..even with the bridge and new facilites I would give the new airline a perhaps 20 percent chance of surviving..and in the airline industry that is high I think.

cheers!
 
SPLOBKrakow
Topic Author
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:31 pm

"does not need a bridge to expand....it just needs an entrepreneur who will add flights."

And there was someone willing to do it if the bridge was build!
 
Olympus69
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:58 pm

By 'half built bridge', I meant that even though very little has been built, the way has been paved with expensive environmental assessments, the hiring of contracters to design and build it...from an expense point of view, it's very likely that between 1/2 to 2/3 of the expenses towards the construction of the bridge have already been paid. (I'm not sure of this though!!! I just know all the pre-planning that has to go in to this sort of challenge).

OK, I can buy that.
 
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STT757
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:14 pm

During the late Eighties-Early Nineties CO had a connection partner who flew DH-7s from EWR- Toronto Island, the name escapes me at the moment.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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yyz717
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:23 pm

During the late Eighties-Early Nineties CO had a connection partner who flew DH-7s from EWR- Toronto Island, the name escapes me at the moment.

City Express, based at YTZ. They operated 4 Dash 7's and 3 Dash 8's on YTZ-YOW/YUL/EWR/YXU.

He went bust around 1990/91 when Air Ontario added Dash 8 service.

The former owner started Trans Capital Air wt YTZ with one of the ex-City Express Dash 7's for charter flights. It is based at YTZ and flies around regularly.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
planemaker
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:41 pm

The former owner started Trans Capital Air wt YTZ with one of the ex-City Express Dash 7's for charter flights. It is based at YTZ and flies around regularly.

FYI, Victor Pappalardo actually has two Dash-7's. Regarding the bridge, he was also threatening to take legal action against the city under the name STOLport. I imagine that since he supplies the ESSO fuel on the island that he had an agreement with Deluce and hence lost out on quite a bit of potential future revenue with RegCo not going ahead with the airline venture.

There have been several attempts to start up airlines out of CYTZ. Two of the more recent attempts have been Air Niagra and Air 2000. Both plans were based on using Saab 340's.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Olympus69
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:00 am

US Airways Express (Commutair) had a short lived service to YTZ using Beech 1900Ds in the late Nineties. I don't know where they flew to/from.

This is the only photo I could find on A.net

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Kelley

 
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yyz717
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:03 am

The US Express service commenced in late 99 and ran for just over a year.

It flew YTZ-ROC with no continuing service to any US hub, hence the market was local traffic only. Around the same time, Air Ontario commenced Dash 8 service from YYZ-ROC. The US service was obviously unsuccessful unfortunately.

In order to be successful, YTZ transborder service would have to go to a US hub, such as EWR (COEx), CLE (COEx), PIT (USEx), PHL (USEx), DTW (NW Link).

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Olympus69
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:42 am

It would also probably need to have US Customs pre-clearance. Incidentally the picture was taken in June 1999 - that's not exactly 'late 99'.
 
Socrates17
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:21 am

.backwards everything do always I

I used to find flying into the island so much fun I did City Express a couple of times from EWR even though my business meetings were out by Pearson and I had to take a cab to my hotel. (Conveniently close to The Landing Strip.)
You Can't Take the Sky from Me
 
martinairyyz
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:04 pm

I am all for the expansion and even did a project on it Big grin. It would dramatically increase jobs and property rates WOULD NOT go down. Now that we have a McGreggums as a Mayor Sad..... let's see what our city will turn into....... He'll eventually want YYZ turned down a notch......


Martin
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
Olympus69
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RE: Toronto Island Airport

Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:15 pm

John,

How long are the runways at YTZ? Less than 5,000 feet?

Yes. The 3 runways are 4000', 3000' and 2780'. One runway has ILS.

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