a380900
Posts: 801
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Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:07 pm

What's with the 777 sales?

In 2003 (through the beginning of December), 3 777 have been sold. During the same period, 33 A340 and 52 A330 have been sold. Is there an explanation?
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:14 pm

are we trying to start an a vs. b war?
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:16 pm

You should be careful of taking a single year's figues as evidence of a trend. For all we know, the 777 could log 80 orders next year, and the A330/340 10. It would be better to look at a trend over a number of years. Now, if the 777 logs few orders next year, and the year after, then yes, something is obviously up (or down)...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:16 pm

During the same period, 33 A340 and 52 A330 have been sold

did ya also happen to notice that nearly all of that came from a single enigmatic airline?


While there have indeed been slow 777 sales this year, do recall that 26 of the most expensive type were placed with EK (by lease)....

Not to mention BA's expectant order for twenty or so of the same model... ditto SQ & QR; plus RG taking on two used.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Thales007
Posts: 33
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:30 pm

I agree....

historical orders for 777:
1998: 69
1999: 35
2000: 116
2001: 30
2002: 32
2003: 3

the 777 isn't losing ground to the A340... as VirginFlyer noted above, you can't take a single year of data and extrapolate a trend- note in particular the huge gap between 1999 and 2000 sales
 
donder10
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:33 pm

No because 2004 will see a big year with orders from BA,CX and SQ amongst others.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:21 pm

Taken today from the websites...
Current 2003 sales figures:

Boeing: orders / deliveries:
717: 8 / 11
737: 195 / 155
747: 3 / 18
757: -1 / 14
767: 10 / 24
777: 3 / 36
Total orders / deliveries: 218 / 258

Airbus: orders / deliveries:
A318: 0 / 7
A319: 44 / 64
A320: 95 / 106
A321: 7 / 33
A300: 6 / 8
A310: 0 / 0
A330: 52 / 28
A340: 33 / 25
A380: 26 / 0
Total orders / deliveries: 263 / 271

Have fun trying to find out what these figures mean actually...

Forgot these:
Total orders 777 until today: 622
Total orders 340 until today: 345 (253 delivered so far)
Total orders Boeing (all AC all yrs): 15845
Total orders Airbus (all AC all yrs): 4865

All based on figures about commercial jetliners.

Do not critisize me for anything about this post, I just added figures, did not put a meaning into the post...might do so later on... Smile



[Edited 2003-12-06 13:27:05]
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
anstar
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:34 pm

I'm confident as the market picks up so will sales of the 777.

The last couple of years haven't exactly been fantastic for wide body sales (EK exempt)

ANstar
 
gamarocchi
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:03 am

RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:20 pm

I think it is losing a little of market share but the problem with this year's orders is just that because of the bad economy the widebody orders have been generally low. Hadn't EK chosen to buy Airbus, Airbus' sales wouldn't look so strong. If Boeing is smart enough to wait, when the economy picks up again there will be lots of new orders for the 777 and I hope also for the 747 (I am not so sure that BA and JAL and ANA are going to choose the 380, and also I think that not all the 747 they have are going to be replaced with 777s)
 
Udo
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:34 pm

The B777 is far from losing ground. As some have already mentioned, we can expect huge orders for the model in 2004, I expect the B773ER to be used as a major B747 replacement.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
VS744
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:37 am

Didnt easyjet place an order with airbus for 100+ A319's?
 
rjpieces
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JFK Future

Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:54 pm

I'm just wondering.......Is there anyone out there who doesn't like the B777? It seems like everyone I know (me included) loves this plane.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:04 pm

What's not to love....?

  • Most technologically advanced aircraft on the market
  • Designed in a process (CATIA) like no other commercial aircraft before it
  • 772ER was for a long time the longest-ranged aircraft in commercial service
  • 772LR will eventually reclaim that title
  • The driving force in transpacific ETOPS, just as the 767 was for the Atlantic
  • The enormous engines (particularly the GE90)
  • etc. The list goes on and on.....
  • Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    toady
    Posts: 700
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    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:04 pm

    "Is there anyone out there who doesn't like the B777?"
    Yes - Noel Forgeard Big grin
     
    ConcordeBoy
    Posts: 16852
    Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:06 pm

    ROFL, great Toady  Big thumbs up

    Reminds me that I left out:
  • outsold its competition, in shorter time  Big grin
  • Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    Paddy
    Posts: 351
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    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:14 pm

    This is a bit of a digression, but it does pertain to 777 orders: There were rumors that NW was going to be purchasing 773ER's or A345/6's sometime in the next few years to replace their old 742's. Is this still likely or have they decided that the smaller A330's will be adequate? If they are getting something bigger do you think it will be the 777 or the A340? I would love to see an A345 or B773ER in their new c/s!
     
    rjpieces
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    JFK Future

    Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:14 am

    AFAIK, they ruled out the A346 and the A380. It is between more 744s, more A330s, or 777s....I have the feeling they will go for the 777. If they do that they can later introduce the 7E7, assuming the two have commonality.
    "Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
     
    Alessandro
    Posts: 4962
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    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:27 am

    I think the B777 and B747 are the 2 of Boeings current planes that have most future, despite the good sales of the B737.
    I hope to see a B777 tanker in the future as well, depends how long the B767 tanker will be around...
    From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
     
    capt078
    Posts: 415
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    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Mon Dec 08, 2003 2:47 am

    certainly, one year of aircraft orders is not indicative of a trend. and looking at total order bookings, the 777 outsells the a340.

    but in truth, orders are not as important as people think. one should look at deliveries for an indication of production and popularity. airlines frequently enter and exit orders, and often with little warning. this is particularly true with large airlines that have other orders with the same manufacturer.

    this is not to say that orders are not important, they are. but production and delivery are a truer reflection of a manufacturer's position, as revenue is not fully realized until delivery. looking at deliveries, the 777 outpaced the a340.
     
    bobrayner
    Posts: 2038
    Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:43 am

    A cheaper dollar should help sales.

    I'm surprised that this hasn't already enabled a few extra sales - we just have to wait and see.
    Cunning linguist
     
    bigb
    Posts: 746
    Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:39 am

    Capt 078 made a good pint, took the words out of my mouth. The orders isn't what counts, its the delieveries made that counts.
    ETSN Baber, USN
     
    gigneil
    Posts: 14133
    Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:46 am

    Most technologically advanced aircraft on the market

    Typical ConcordeBoy blabber. One could easily argue that the 10-years-newer 345 or 346 are, and that the 773ER will be comparable when it finally enters service.

    I have the feeling they will go for the 777. If they do that they can later introduce the 7E7, assuming the two have commonality.

    Why? They've just started taking 330s, they certainly won't want to throw them all away until they've flown at least 50 years.

    There is no evidence one way or the other on the 777 and 346. They have already disqualified the 772ER, and for no other reason than they disliked the pratt performance. That certainly doesn't give either the 773ER or A346 an advantage, or disadvantage.

    N
     
    Shenzhen
    Posts: 1664
    Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:17 pm

    Didn't KAL place a LOI for 777s at Paris. This should be firmed up in the near future. In addition to the Singapore, BA, Qatar orders, I wouldn't be surprised if ILFC and GECAS make a significant order in 2004. They did lease all the -300ERS that were on order to Emirates. 2005 should see some orders from the airlines based in the US, as they come out of recession.

    I think in addition to the quantity of the orders, people should also look at the quality of the airlines buying.

    Cheers


     
    ConcordeBoy
    Posts: 16852
    Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:42 am

    One could easily argue that the 10-years-newer 345 or 346 are, and that the 773ER will be comparable when it finally enters service.

    *slap*

    Dear dumb Neil, you just made my point for me  Big grin
    Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    na
    Posts: 9206
    Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:58 am

    The original post is of cause pointless. The fall in orders for the 777 might be extreme, but so was the rise in 777 orders in the last years.
    It´s just cyclical. If the 773ER is a hit in terms of performance, I bet (even if I don´t like that aircraft) we´ll see a good sales performance in the next 2 - 3 years, although nowhere near the untypical year 2000 boom. I don´t think the 777 will loose ground to the A340/330s in average sales. There is no reason for it to be afraid of that.

    Just remember that the 747 is around since 1969 in its various variants- and had its top order years 1988/89!

     
    nudelhirsch
    Posts: 1371
    Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

    RE: Is The 777 Losing Ground?

    Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:55 am

    As the Dollar is not too high at the moment and boeing has potential to outsource some minor works to customer countries as a nice little "persuading-gift"...as airbus doesn't have (was discussed here before), it's not completely unlikely that Boeing will face some orders. then most LCC still stick to 737 technology, some of them still flying 732s. This could be a point for Boeing. Then I heard somewhere, that some people are speculating about a 717 order from NWA...don't know where I got this from... Nuts
    742s are being phased out, so 777 and 744 face some need as soon the industrie is closer to having recovered.
    Then, one cannot forget, that Airbus as an international consortium with quite some political interests as well...every CEO would deny, but somehow the carriers of the partnership countries are somewhat supposed to buy Airbus. As the A vs B war has not found a winner yet, one can probably say, they both make great aircrafts, so the need for a 742 substitute and the Dollar situation might help a bit.
    And sure, taking orders is one thing, payment is upon shipping, so every undelivered is just some wasted bucks (the internet-guy who had to put the order online, as soon as it came in, the ink still wet...) so nobody should judge by orders.
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