martinairyyz
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New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:24 am

Hello everyone, just to let you all know that this is the thread to post in about new planes and airlines at YYZ.

So far, many of you may know that Emirates and Turkish airlines are set to start next year. Turkish in May  Confused And Emirates is still unknown. PIA will start 777 service next year and LH will bring the A346 in for a few runs with an unknown date. There are rumors circulationg that BA will start all 777 service but this is untrue. It will remain at 744/777 each once per day until further notice.

If anyone else has anything else please feel free to post.


Martin
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captaingomes
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:24 am

Welcome to the forum. As far as I know, those are the only ones. I'm sure there are other possibilities, and increased frequencies too.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
carlos1979
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:38 am

What about the rumours about the new airline (Aero Falcon) that supposed to focus on the YYZ-South Asia Market. Here is the link to their website. It will be interesting to see if anything ever materialises.

www.aerofalcon.ca

C
 
captaingomes
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:41 am

Carlos, honestly, don't count on it.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
behramjee
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:41 am

After receiving in late Oct a lot of publicity concerning its planned launch with B 744s flying nonstop YYZ-South Asia...nothing more has been said on AEROFALCON.

I dont expect this airline to start operations until May earliest and their target was DEC 03!!!

BA will never swtich to all B 777 flights to YYZ as they need the extra capacity of their B 744s from YYZ as they're loads are very good especially in the peak summer-winter seasons!!!

The only other entrant to YYZ apart from the new PIA and LH aircraft plus TK and EK can be VIRGIN ATLANTIC restarting YYZ flights next summer with daily A 346s or B 744s. Lets see how this goes...PIA is expected to bring its B 772ER to YYZ in March-April 04.
 
martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:50 am

Glad to hear that Virgin may make a comeback. I'm somewhat hoping that Air Canada goes under, then all the codeshare flights it does such as BMI, Qantas  Smile, JAL, ANA, and many others, will be able to fly their own planes in hopefully. As for AEROFALCON, I hope it gets started, we need more 744's here at YYZ.

Nuno (Captaingomes) was telling me about an airline someone is trying to start with whores on board dancing around poles, smoking, and stripping. How is that coming along?

Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
carlos1979
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:51 am

It would be fantastic to see Virgin back in Toronto. I remember flying out of T.O. during their brief foray here in 2001. It was great to see that paint scheme. From what I understand the margins on the YYZ-LHR route are still strong so it bodes well for a return by Virgin.
 
captaingomes
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:55 am

Behramjee, I am not sure where I read this, but I thought the PIA 777's were to be delivered to PIA in January, and they are to start service to YYZ right away. Is that not the case anymore?

Oh and Martin, that airline I told you about is just on the drawing board. Nothing about smoking though. I can't say anything beyond that really. But if you ask me, it too will unlikely fly.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:55 am

Yes, I aways loved seeing the Virgin planes an attractionwhen living in England. Hopefully BMI will start coming with their own planes soon... one of my favourite airlines in the world, I must say.

If I find the $130,000 CAD to go to Oxford Aviation, Im guaranteed a job with BMI, BA, or FlyBE...... first the money..........
*starts looking under furniture and begging like a HOBO!!!*

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martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:57 am

Yes Nuno, too much shaking back-and-forth if they go out with the idea
 Big thumbs up
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flyyul
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:07 am

Firstly..

Turkish hasnt confirmed anything. Emirates doesnt have Toronto on the list yet for next year..

But the good news.... KLM will bring the 747-400 daily next summer!!

Mark
 
awschucksflyer
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:30 am

MatinairYYZ...

Seeing as how you think that AC should go under, JUST so you have the JOY of seeing more 747's?!?!?! DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD ALL HOPE THAT THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR SHOULD GO UNDER?

HOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH A THING!!!!

DO YOU NOT REALIZE HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD LOSE THEIR JOBS? WHAT IMPACT AIR CANADA GOING UNDER WOULD HAVE ON THE CANADIAN ECONOMY...seeing as how auto sales and house sales have already slowed down?!?

I think that this has to be the most ignorant comment on this site yet!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

On that note, I can't wait to see the new airlines begin service to YYZ. Especially Virgin which I am still praying that one day in the very near future will begin service.
 
martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:53 am

Awschucksflyer...
I was bringing up the point of AC going down only becuase of more airlines flying their own planes in. If Air Canada could... let's say, "Uncodeshare" and all the airlines flew here by themselves I would have no problem with Air Canada staying alive, and it would be extremely quiet at YYZ with no AC..... Anyway, I don't see how the comment was ignorant becuase all I did was say that it would bring up more airlines and aircraft into YYZ...
and Mark, on your comment.
Turkish has not comfirmed, but has stated that they will most likely start a YYZ route next year. There was also comment about Emirates starting YYZ service... It was also on their website as a foreseen destination.

Martin
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:58 am

DO YOU NOT REALIZE HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD LOSE THEIR JOBS? WHAT IMPACT AIR CANADA GOING UNDER WOULD HAVE ON THE CANADIAN ECONOMY...seeing as how auto sales and house sales have already slowed down?!?

Actually, in the long run probably more jobs would be created by an AC shutdown/liquidation. AC's inefficiency and domination of the industry for so many years has kept away many airline entrepreneurs. An AC liquidation would see many new airline startups come out of the woodwork, not to mention the growth that Westjet, Jetsgo, TS, SSV, Canjet et al would realize.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:07 pm

hehe..... I love seeing expansion.... imagine a big green face on a 741 from the desert... just like this:

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00025735

Doctored by me..... looks crappy but gives you prepective!

Lets not get too much off topic here......

Martin
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canuckpaxguy
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:21 pm

Has there ever been a 346 at YYZ? Better yet, does anyone have a pic of it to post on A.Net? Doubt we'll see an AC 345/346...but any airline will do. Grant - Maybe you could help a little here?

For the record, I'd like to see Virgin too, but I doubt we'd get the 346 to start. I'd really like to see a little SAA action around here.

G

PS - To the YYZ/VW clan --- I'm picking up my new Wolfsburg tomorrow. Woo Hoo.

 
martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:23 pm

There was once a CX 346 here...... SAA would be magnificent, especially with their 744's
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captaingomes
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:25 pm

New Jetta??? WOO HOO! Colour? Mmmmmm, I love the 1.8T. Oooops, this is airliners.net, not vwvortex.com. I forgot.  Big grin

Uhhhhhh, oh yeah. Yes, the A346 has been here before. Cathay Pacific flew it here a couple of times, but nobody got a good view or picture of it. It landed on the runway we weren't expecting.

Lufthansa is for sure going to fly the A346 next year, but I forget the official starting date. It will be a regular here.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
dripstick
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:29 pm

Not sure if anyone mentioned Sunwing or not. Staring service from YYZ next week.

http://www.sunwing.ca/e_specials.asp

Andy

What's another word for thesaurus?
 
martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:37 pm

YAY!!! More lively colours at YYZ.... I'm surprised another new Canuck AL is staring up..... how many now? 13?
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:44 pm

The new LH 346 was due to make 3 route proving flights to YYZ this month in place of the usual 332. As the 346 service entry has been slightly delayed by LH, the YYZ flights might also be delayed or canned. I guess.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Olympus69
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:56 pm

MartinYYZ,

I was bringing up the point of AC going down only becuase of more airlines flying their own planes in.

Why do you want to see more airlines bring their own planes in? How does having foreign airlines replacing a Canadian one help Canada's economy?

I'm afraid your comment sounds like the typical thoughtless remark we frequently get from teenagers in this forum.

I too would like to see more airlines flying to YYZ - but to expand service, not to replace a Canadian airline.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:07 pm

How does having foreign airlines replacing a Canadian one help Canada's economy?

Actually, whether a Cdn airline or a foreign airline does not really matter to the Cdn economy. Both pay landing fees; the foreign crew stay in hotels, the locals pay taxes.....the effect is very similar. The major difference is HQ jobs.

Frankly, if a foreign carrier can fly a route into Cda more efficiently, and hence with lower fares, Cdns will save money picking that foreign carrier.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Goose
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:00 am

DO YOU NOT REALIZE HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD LOSE THEIR JOBS? WHAT IMPACT AIR CANADA GOING UNDER WOULD HAVE ON THE CANADIAN ECONOMY...seeing as how auto sales and house sales have already slowed down?!?
--

I hope you're not equating lower auto and home sales to the poor health of Air Canada - because Air Canada simply is not that important. I'm going to guess you're not.

How many jobs has Air Canada cost the industry over the years, in terms of pushing competitors out or under with predatory tactics and pricing tickets below cost? Canada 3000? Greyhound Air? Canadian Airlines? My guess would be in the thousands.....

Not saying that it's fair to the individual people who work for Air Canada - I know quite a few and have good friends working there, and it hurts seeing them unsure about their careers' futures - but Air Canada going the way-of-all-things wouldn't be a deathnell for the Canadian economy. Maybe a bump - at least until those people working for AC found jobs with other employers in the industry.

Doubtless the ones willing, would find new jobs - especially with carriers which would grow or appear to fill the void that was left....
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:34 am

Regarding the trials and tribulations of Air Canada...

Managerial practices have certainly been a topic of hot debate. Incompentence VS. victim of circumstances etc... intertwined with the political climate differences from one coast to another...

... I think we should be gratelful to have an airline with bring up such levels of entertainment in the buisness sections and forums in our country nowadays. I read every article that this nations newspapers churn up about this carrier for many reasons, the top two being: Will I ever get called back? But mostly though because a struggling institution is always a great read. I find the proceedings fascinating, the players colourful, and I need another Old Milwaukee so I'll cut it short. In good or in bad, all must agree: Air Canada... a really fun topic!

Grégoire
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:35 am

DO YOU NOT REALIZE HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD LOSE THEIR JOBS? WHAT IMPACT AIR CANADA GOING UNDER WOULD HAVE ON THE CANADIAN ECONOMY...seeing as how auto sales and house sales have already slowed down?!?

Actually, Nortel laid off MORE employees betw 2000 & 2002 than AC currently has in total employees. Those 40k+ Nortel FTE's were based primarily in YOW & YYZ....and yet the YOW/YYZ economies continue to do fine.

If AC shut down tomorrow, the national economy will barely feel anything. The AC FTE's are widely distributed across the country, ie, no city will be hit hard. The other airlines will quickly ramp up hiring and realistically within 1-2 years there could be MORE airline jobs than when AC existed. Moreover, the many creditors would be able to seize the assets and sell them....which would generate addl wealth for Cdn creditors (ie, assets held by a bankrupt company like AC operating under a CH-11 like scenario are effectively non-performing assets). So effectively, the continued operation of AC is MORE of a drag on the Cdn economy than would be its liquidation. Food for thought.....
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ba777-236
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:17 am

I don't post here much these days, but I thought I heard something about Air Jamaica ending their code-share (with AC), and starting scheduled service to YYZ, have these plans been scrapped?
I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:44 am

JM will recommence its own service to YYZ on April 4th with daily 320 service the day after the AC codeshare ends.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
captaingomes
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:06 am

Doesn't Air Jamaica already operate their own flights to YYZ? I thought this had already started.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
scf158
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:16 am

''Actually, in the long run probably more jobs would be created by an AC shutdown/liquidation.'' Yyz717


In the long run?? what in like 25 years? Screw the long run, think about the short term! those years that to the 'long run' would still be costly!
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:43 am

In the long run?? what in like 25 years?

No, probably within 12 mos as the demand by former AC customers is satisfied by current & new airlines as they fill the void.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:26 am

 Big thumbs up ****JUST IN*********  Big thumbs up
Air Plus Comet (A7/MPD) will re-start weekly non-stop charters between Toronto and Malaga Spain on Saturdays commencing January 31st through to October 30, 2004. The Spanish charter carrier will utilize their Airbus A310-300s on the weekly service for Sunwing Vacations.

Hopefully it will continue on for longer and that Virgin and other airlines such as BMI do this too.

Does anybody know if AC goes down, if the codesharers (JAL, Qantas, etc...) will fly their wn planes here?

Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
caribb
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:49 am

I just flew out of YYZ last night.. spotted the new KLM 777 which looked beautiful!..

I don't have a link to back me up but I recall reading the AeroFalcon plan has totally fallen through.. just for the guys who were discussing it at the top of the thread.. if I find the link I'll post it and don't take it as necessarily being true rather a rumor or possibility.

Air Canada.. I tend to agree with YYZ717... let them go under and re-emerge. Lost jobs will be found after. They seem to suck the life out of the industry as they operate today. It's demise would boost existing carriers, open new opportunities for existing players and thus create new life in the industry, probably lead to new airlines emerging from the dust and ultimately leading to new foreign airlines entering into the Canadian markets especially Toronto... so then that deal Finnair wanted to fly to Helsinki via Stockholm using it's 5th freedom rights from Toronto would have occured and opened up new doors into new cities instead of Air Canada closing them to maintain their code shares.
 
Skywatcher
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:39 am

A company can't just go bankrupt and then start over just to get out of debt. It's illegal, unethical and the creditors would be all over the new entity instantly.

If they go bankrupt AC is dead forever.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:59 am

A company can't just go bankrupt and then start over just to get out of debt. It's illegal, unethical and the creditors would be all over the new entity instantly. If they go bankrupt AC is dead forever.

AC is already operating in bankruptcy. The creditors have no choice but to reschedule AC's debts to them because in a liquidation scenario they would only get cents on the dollar.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
PIA747
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:05 am

Captaingomes:

PIA will not start the B777 Trans-atlantic service immediatly. It will give its crew time to familarize with the aircraft and build some hours on it. Initial B777 service is mostly domestic with twice a week service to LHR from ISB.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:05 am

On another note, AA was scheduled to transfer the 7 daily YYZ-LGA flights to AE in early January.

The 1x daily M80 & 6x daily F100 were to be replaced by 6x daily ERJ....a significant reduction in capacity! Well over 50%.

Anyway, the revised schedule as of Jan 04 is: 3x daily M80 & 4x daily ERJ which is still a reduction in capacity but less so. This move is in conjunction with the steady removal of the AA F100 fleet.

The F100 will still be used on 4 of the 6 daily YYZ-ORD flights into 2004.

FYI
Neil

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
captaingomes
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:08 am

PIA747, thanks! Looking forward to eventually seeing the PIA 777's here at YYZ.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
martinairyyz
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:30 pm

Ohhhh...... hope to see some AE props in here!!!! On the other note: any month set or guess for the PIA777? January maybe? And LH346 dtaes guess?

Martin
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
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yyz717
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:13 pm

Martin, no AE props are planned for YYZ. Only the Embraer ERJ. They are already used on YYZ-BOS. YYZ-LGA will be added in Jan 04.

Neil
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: New Planes And A/L At YYZ

Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:43 am

Goose

AC had nothing to do with Canada 3000 going under, they did it to themselves. Greyhound went under because the company was bought by Laidlaw and they wanted nothing to do with an airline. I don't think you can make money with a B727 running in a lo-cost setting. Also most CP employees are still with AC, I know alot of original AC employees that have lost their jobs!!!

MartinairYYZ

AC does not codeshare with Qantas or Jal. One day when your old enough to work, we'll see how you feel when your about to lose your job. There is more to life than watching airplanes take off and land. Just my opinion!!!!

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