DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:03 pm

Now that the famed Checkerboard IGS approach into Hong-Kong is history. The twisting ,turning,descending VOR 13L/R approach into JFK is one of the most challenging(FUN) procedures still left to fly. It is also provides some of the best vistas for observers on terra firma ,since the approach path wends its way over Jamaica Bay, and heavily populated Brooklyn,and Queens,NYC neighborhoods. Indeed, the citizens of South Ozone park,and Howard Beach,Queens regularly enjoy the spectacle of a 747-400 ,engines spooling, banked delicately over their heads making that final pylon turn toward the runway. Have many of you aficianados have made the pilgrimage to JFK to check it out? How many of you were born underneath or near this wingpath like me?
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
JohnJ
Posts: 1366
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:07 pm

I certainly have - but only the 13L approach. There's a little neighborhood park across the Belt Parkway from the Ramada Inn that's an excellent spotting location. It's interesting to watch the many locals who frequent the park - they pay absolutely no attention to the aircraft, no matter how unusual or exotic. I was amazed the first time I saw the Concorde there last summer that nobody even stopped what they were doing to watch it. It was just another airplane to them.

In all fairness, for photography I prefer the opposite approach to the 31R runway.
 
RP TPA
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 1999 9:40 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:45 pm

I flew from TPA-JFK about a year ago and we used the 13L/R (I forgot which side) approach. Beautiful at night.
When I lived in NYC, I used to hang out at the batting cages near 5 Towns shopping center, and would watch the arrivals on the 31's. Since I was usually there during the mid-afternoon, just about every international airline would pass overhead.
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2888
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:52 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:25 am

How many of you were born underneath or near this wingpath like me?

I grew up under the 13L approach, Old South Rd. in So. Ozone....you?

[EDIT] Ah, I just checked your profile and realize who you are...send those 3-holers back to JFK will ya!!

Michael


[Edited 2003-12-09 16:27:11]
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:33 am

would that i could mike,jfk has been an awesome base !
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
boeing764
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:24 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:36 am

I travelled from Edmonton Canada to see JFK and stood underneath the Canarsie approach watching in awe as the aircraft passed overhead.
From Dr. King's America to Nelson Mandela's Africa, the journey of equality moves on.
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:46 am

If someone has access to the published page for this approach, either in Jeppesen or NOAA, or a link to one, feel free to post it here.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:48 am

go to:

<http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/index.php>

enter "jfk' and then you'll be able to select the approach (parkway visual rwy 13l/13r).[Edited 2003-12-09 16:50:36]

[Edited 2003-12-09 16:51:17]
 
southpaw8669
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:21 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:50 am

when I was younger I too went to hang out at the 5 towns batting range to watch the planes come in on the 31R approach. both 13L/R and 31L/R are great for viewing. There are so many different spots.
@southpawcapture
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:57 am

I've got to check out the 5-towns area,they use the 31's more than the 13's anyway. Another good place to hang in nice wx anyway,is the starbucks on crossbay blvd. in Howard beach, they have an open deck on the second story,I have enjoyed many an expresso,perused the NYtimes,and watched the early AM 31L departures, roaring overhead at about 1,000 agl, all at the same time!
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
User avatar
foxecho
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:43 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:14 am

I have done that approach in an Delta MD-11, absolutely spectacular. Amazingly enough, the Captain (who is an acquaintance of mine from my JFK days) told us over the PA we were about to fly the Cararsie Approach and it involved "a lot of twists and turns"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Gotta love this stuff

5 towns, is that off Brookville Blvd?

Andrew (KMCI)
..uh, we'll need that to live......
 
southpaw8669
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:21 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:19 am

coming off brookville make a left turn, you exit queens and enter the five towns.
@southpawcapture
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:24 am

Thanks, Potomac.  Smile

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:25 am

no problem - that's a great (free!) site for us airport diagrams and approach plates, among other things.
 
User avatar
foxecho
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:43 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:44 am

Southpaw- thanks for the directions, next time I'm home if the weather is good I'll definitely make a drive down. I grew up in Syosset and got to see some planes close up if they were landing on 22L & R if there were storms coming in over NJ I vividly remember seeing a KLM 747 down low enough to where I could read the tail clearly, and Concorde blasting over many times- who knew the Connie would outlast her!

Potomac, Great site thanks!

Tom in NO, long time no see how are ya?

on to subject-

I did my Airport agent training in Building 67 at JFK, after working in there for about a month you hardly notice the planes on final anymore, although they get close enough to see people looking down at you! Building 67 (and the KLM/Polar Air hanger next door) were the last 2 buildings aircraft had to clear before landing...Always neat to see them making that steep Canarsie turn before locking onto the ILS....

Andrew (KMCI)
..uh, we'll need that to live......
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:36 am

I have lived in Howard Beach most of my life, living under the Canarsie 13L/13R approach is what got me into aviation. Even to this day, whenever I see that first 13L arrival, it brings a smile to my face.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:55 am

me too,this summer I was JFK based, when they were using the Canarsie arrivals,I would walk through my old neighborhood,South Ozone Park, and enjoy the show ,aviation nerd that I am,I saw the Concorde in late August ,hopefully not for the last time, screaming overhead in a typically,wonderfully thunderous arrival for 13L.
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
airfrancejfk
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 1:05 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:51 am

I live in South Ozone Park, just off Lefferts Blvd, and directly in the landing path of 13L. I would have to agree with the individual who said that no one pays much attention to the planes around here. I often go to get gas at the BP/AMOCO station on 130th Street and South Conduit Avenue directly opposite the park. Those planes are literally over your head tryin to make that final turn into 13L and no one so much as turns a head. The other day, I was there pumping gas and saw Air Santo Domingo, British, Lufthansa, BWIA, and Uzbekistan come in one after the other, now where else can you see that.
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 am

nowhere else, you were right when you said nobody notices, but i think the concorde was the exception,droves of 767s,and airbuses wouldn't draw a glance,but the concorde still turned heads.
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

EK 345

Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:02 am

What a wonderful thread!!!!

I live in Bergen Beach, Brooklyn. It is underneath the 13L/R approach but not when the planes are super low. I also have lived here my whole life and that is what got me into aviation. There is nothing like growing up watching all of these great internatioanl airlines from countries you've never heard of flying over your house!

While I love the Canarsie approach, I don't think it matches the Kai Tak one. But then again I don't think anything matches the Kai Tak one.

Foxecho, it is weird. I find many times when landing on 13L that the Captain will say we are flying the Canarsie approach but on other runways the Captain never announces the name of the approach!

[Edited 2003-12-14 19:05:38]
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:15 am

he or she is probably an old head if they say Canarsie approach, it hasn't officially been referred to that way for years,now its either the VOR/DME 13L/R or the Parkway Visual,same thing just different nomenclature,but you still cross the Canarsie VOR all dirtied up at 1500 feet, and it is still a rush to fly it. Never got to fly Kai Tek, got close once in '91 when I was doing a ferry flight,but they changed my destination to BKK, and i never got my shot at the Checkerboard,(in a DC3!)
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:28 am

DC3CV3407AC727:

I'm pretty sure I've heard it referred to as the Canarsie Approach by ATC controllers for inbound aircraft (i.e. I know of the Canarsie Climb so I'm not getting those confused).

Rjpieces:

I was on a DL 763 from CVG and the Captain refered to our arrival as the Canarsie approach and then landing on 13L. That was one of the best landings, because it was right on the edge of a strong thunderstorm with heavy downpours (in fact, only one aircraft behind us made the landing, and the rest I'm assuming were either put in a hold or vectore to a longer ILS (i.e. the visibility must have been about 3/4 to a mile.
 
CX777
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:43 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:56 am

Whats more amazing is that within the 12 nm left to CRI approach is the corridor for LGA and on a clear day one can see 8 jetliners on approaches! I have witnessed at several times, 1 over the 13 L numbers, 1 just commencing the Right Bank around 13 R base, 2 lined up behind and also can see 2 lined up for LGA approach. Lastly and if its 'rush hour' then ofcorse there is one jumbo over the Rockaway Blvd for 22 LEFT and one trailing right behind! All visible without binoculars and within 3000 ASL! To me, the ATC chatter at these times is better than the Beethoven's 5th!
Raj
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:12 am

I know! The NY ClassB when everything is flowing well is a symphony writ large!
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

EK 345

Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:19 am

Hahah.....And if one of those planes landing on 13L ever has a misapproach all of the traffic at JFK and LGA can get screwed up!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
beeweel15
Posts: 907
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:24 am

I have rode jump seat and flown as a pax on this approach. It is fun to see the pilots fly the approach and as a pax. When you do the Canarsie approach you come in from a southerly direction. Manhattan will be on you left the bay on your right. One basic way to tell also that you are on the approach is that you will be over the Belt Parkway for most of the approach. The approach which makes a continual right turn make two sharp turns before touchdowm with the one going to 13R being the sharper of the two and you will touchdown with the old Pan Am hangars ( now United ), Building 14 and TWA's old Hangar 12 all on your left side with you run up ending by The Pan Am World Port ( Now Delta ). 13L although not as sharp as 13R you would have Fed Ex, The old United Hangars ( Used By JetBlue ) on your left and you will have British Airways Terminal 7, JetBlue Terminal 6 and TWA's Terminal 5 on the left. The run up will basically end next to the post office on the left or by the intersecting runways 22R/4L
 
Carlos Borda
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 1:31 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:44 am

Here's a neat in-flight shot doing the Canarsie Approach and seconds from landing on 13L.

~Los


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Julian Whitelaw

 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:32 pm

i saw something interesting tonight around 9:45pm when i was looking at http://www1.passur.com/jfk.new.html I saw planes approaching JFK from the south over Staten Island, then appear to make their turn at approx 2000 ft over the Brooklyn Bridge and then land on 31L. 31r was being used for departures. I am sure this had something to do with the bad weather in NYC. I just checked passur at midnight and the planes were approaching whatever the north/south runways are 4 or whatever from over the ocean.
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:25 pm

That link to passur, is a great one!
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:53 pm

HlywdCatft:

There's another thread on here about the ESB (Empire State Building) being in the way of ILS 13L/R at JFK, which goes into more details about the approach you saw. That approach you saw is typical after a storm when winds are bad, and they need to use the ILS, and not Canarsie. (It's RWYS 13L that they were landing on, and 13R that they were taking off on). What's interesting here is that LGA and JFK traffic are almost on top of each other at anywhere from 1,000' to 2,000' of separation, and all lined up perfectly, something which you don't see too much. And then you have EWR traffic about a mile and a half off the to left side of the LGA arrivals.
 
steady eddie
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 6:43 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:00 pm

Stayed at the Ramada many times, (three pointed building bottom left of that pic) and it literally points down the runway, if you stay at one of the rear facing rooms you can spend a very enjoyable afternoon watching the aircraft come out of the sun from left to right, and turn right towards you before screaming over,
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:25 pm

I know what you mean,my old block was just before the final pivot to rwy 13L,every 90 seconds during the busy times ,a steadily building whine,transformed into a scream and then a roar, as a 707,DC8,VC10,Il-62 swooped overhead, i loved to hang out and watch the show!
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:07 am

Sounds interesting, does anybody have a copy of the chart that they can post?
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:10 am

I think I did that one coming in from SVO. You fly over a Staples the Ramada and a (Target Superstore?)
-UN
What now?
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:26 am

My bad about the 31 instead of the 13, I was a bit dyslexic last night.

At the same time though when the planes were approaching over the harbor and making the turn at the Brooklyn Bridge, watch Laguardia's approach- Planes fly along the Hudson River at 4,000 ft heading northbound, make a left hand turn over Jersey heading westbound before circling 180 degrees and heading east over Jersey, then appearing to land over Harlem to land on the runway 13(?) at LGA
 
eastbay
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:44 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:41 am

My last time flying into JFK was on an American A300 from Miami, we did the Canarsie to 13L, going missed at around 100 feet due to traffic on the runway. Went around, did it one more time.... since I was in no hurry, I enjoyed the ride!
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:24 am

HlywdCatft:

Yea it was RWY13 at LGA... That approach is also awesome is you're on the right side of the aircraft, cause first you overfly Manhattan at like 4,000' and then you overfly Harlem again, looking down the avenue at like 2,300'. The River Visual Approach is even cooler, although it's not used too much.
 
A330
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:58 am

Done it tons of times on the 330 with Sabena and VG.
13L is not that special, a lot more fun if they clear you for 13R.
Will hopefully come back to the Big Apple quite soon, but not from Brussels, but from Doha, Qatar and the airline that takes you more personally... (long live the A340.500/600!!!)
Shiek!
 
DC3CV3407AC727
Topic Author
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:23 pm

RE: The Canarsie Approach 13L/13R At JFK

Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:34 am

Yeah on the 13r arrival you get to do that constantly descending 30 degree banked turn with everything hanging and the engines spooling,good noise,good drama,great fun!
the rumble of round engines is like music to me,likewise the thunder of thr JT8D

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos