L1011Fan
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Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:45 pm

My apologies if this has already been discussed (I looked but couldn't find it).

Bloomberg TV just announced that Qatar Airlines announced a $3B Airbus order.

I'm trying to find a link to the announcement. I assume this was announced at the Dubai Airshow.
 
VirginFlyer
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:57 pm

Apparently 2 A380s and 2 A340-600s, plus options for 10 more aircraft (2 A380s, 8 A340-600s). Wasn't this what was announced at Paris?

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
L1011Fan
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:02 pm

I'm not sure. Bloomberg TV had this as an alert on the bottom of the screen in bright orange. It read "Qatar Airways announces $3B Airbus order". I just saw it a few minutes ago. I've checked Qatar's website, the Dubai Airshow's website, Bloomberg's website, and Airbus's website...nothing. Either this is new information or Bloomberg is just really late  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



[Edited 2003-12-09 15:03:06]
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:05 pm

http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=565&fArticleId=304437

"Qatar Airways has signed a firm contract with Airbus for two A380s with options for two more as well as two ultra-range A340-600s with options for a further eight," said Noel Forgeard, president and chief executive of Airbus.

Yee-haw  Laugh out loud
UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
JvW
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:09 pm

$3 Billion for four airplanes or are the options included in this number??...

JvW
 
airways
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:17 pm

It's a new deal, announced today at the Dubai Air Show. $3 Billions is the total value, including the options. Deliveries of the Airbus A340-600s will begin in June 2006, and those of the A380s in early 2009.

Michael
http://airsider.net

 
Greg
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:47 pm

They are future whitetails. Qatar has neither the resources or stategy to support that purchase.
 
voodoo
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:51 pm

Actually, it wasn't meant as A v. B bait. Just surprise.
The 777 rumours had seemed pretty certain. Perhaps that announcement is yet to come.

[Edited 2003-12-09 15:53:13]
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
gigneil
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:03 am

The 777 rumors were foundless and little more than rhetoric.

Nobody actually believed Qatar would depart from their all-Airbus strategy for no apparent reason, at least I certainly didn't.

Nobody offered any actual evidence whatsoever.

N
 
airways
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:20 am

Well, perhaps they're going for the 777 one day in the future. Wouldn't really surprise me anymore. However, they were speaking about fleet commonality today. Here's an extract of the press release:

"We see a need for the A340-600 on our medium to high-capacity long-haul routes, as well as for the larger A380 on our most heavily traveled services," says Qatar Airways Chief Executive Officer Akbar AI-Baker. "And we look forward to the commonality benefits that our all-Airbus fleet will bring us in both cost savings and operational flexibility."

Michael
 
L1011Fan
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:29 am

Qatar just played Boeing to get a better deal out of Airbus. I know it will never happen but the next time Boeing is approached by Qatar I would publicly tell them to go screw... Then we will all see how great of a deal that Airbus gives them and how much their "cost savings" are. Of course there is the benefit of Boeing knowing that Airbus didn't get as much money for their planes. Works both ways I guess.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:34 am

Voodoo -> my bad, it's just that I'm getting pi$$ed that evry other thread turns into A vs. B warfare. They both make great aircraft (no s!).
As for Qatar not having the reources, remember, it is an oil country  Laugh out loud
UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
Korg747
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:39 am

"Qatar just played Boeing to get a better deal out of Airbus"

well if that's the case, then that's a nasty way but that's ok. The 777-300ER is getting better every day. Plus the A346 will cause Qatar airways to not have a common engines anymore (now operating RRs ,GEs and PWs)
Please excuse my English!
 
manni
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:44 am

'Airbus didn't get as much money for their planes'

approx. list price for the A380 is 218-240 million $.
approx. list price for the A340-600 is 174-181 million$.

3 billion$ for 10 A340-600's and 4 A380's does not seem to be heavily discounted. Looks more like, no discount at all. Wich is understandable, considering the fact that the 777-300ER is listed 30 million$ more than a A340-600. Chosing the A340-600 over the 777-300ER saves enough money to pay for 1,25 A380's.  Big grin
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
GDB
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:49 am

The more enlightened Gulf States are turning to alternatives to oil, which won't last forever, trading hubs, tourism, IT to name a few.
Qatar and EK are now where Cathay and SIA was 20 years ago, dream on if you think it's only going to produce white tails.
Frankly thinking otherwise is very insular, many sneered at the idea in the late 70's that a substantial portion of 747 deliveries in the 1980s/1990s would be to Asia-Pacific airlines, but it happened didn't it?
 
Scorpio
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:52 am

Manni,

The value of these deals, when announced in a press release, is always based on list prices. Discounts are normally never disclosed. Rest assured that QR will pay less than $3 billion for these planes. Not a single airline the size of QR orders planes, especially worth this much, at list price. Not at Airbus, not at Boeing.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:00 am

Here's the big question: what route would QR use the A340-600HGW? Doha to New York JFK? If the main runway at Doha is over 15,000 feet in length then such a flight might be possible year-round.

I can just see five years from now regular visits by EK and QR A346HGW's to JFK.  Smile
 
gigneil
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:00 am

When you announce business, you always announce the potential revenue based on list price.

Discounts and whatnot are privileged information.

Agreed. Anyone that thinks Qatar and Dubai can't sustain this growth is under a rock somewhere.

N
 
manni
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:21 am

Scorpio, Gigneil,

I understand.

L1011Fan,

I doubt Boeing will ever tell Qatar to go screw. It would benefit Airbus to much.  Big grin ,not Boeing. Also, how exactely does Boeing benefit from an order they lost? Boeing isn't exactely in a position to turn down any order, especially when it comes to widebodys.
I believe they sold about 4 777's so far this year and 10 767's, might have missed one or two, with only 3 weeks to go to 2004.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
elwood64151
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:33 am

Greg:

Actually, thanks in part to economic aid from the US and in part to the limited oil drilling in that country, they do have the resources. Besides, since when has any country decided not to buy something because they didn't have the money. Look at our own government. We just added $400B is spending and we already had a $300B budget shortfall this year...

The more enlightened Gulf States are turning to alternatives to oil, which won't last forever, trading hubs, tourism, IT to name a few.
Qatar and EK are now where Cathay and SIA was 20 years ago, dream on if you think it's only going to produce white tails.


You're absolutely right. And Qatar is doing just that, in addition to the limited manufacturing they already have there. Oil is not their only product. If it were, I'd be very cautious about financing them in any way, were I Boeing or Airbus.

Manni:

You're right. Boeing has had a significant backlog reduction. They can't afford to turn anyone down. They need to generate revenue, and quickly, even if they sell an aircraft at a loss. Better to sell at a slight loss than build nothing and lose everything.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
na
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:51 am

Everbody know that the 773ER is a prohibitively expensive aircraft and far more costly than the A346, even clearly more expensive than the own company´s flagship 744!. So much so, that it obviously turns against Boeing now.
Paying list price or not, a big difference is there, bigger than the little advantages the 777ER might bring over the A346 (which are obviously not that important for many airlines as they are not really needed - as opposed to the money saved on the Airbus).
 
GDB
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:03 am

I doubt that, BA found the 777 cheaper than a 744, I'm a big fan of the A345/6 but I have a hard time thinking they are much cheaper than a 777, anyway we should be talking of all the costs, operating, seat/mile, the whole lot, wise airlines certainly do.
 
na
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:17 am

BA´s 777s are cheaper than 744s, because they are clearly smaller -200s. And that was 5 years ago or so when they ordered the last ones.
The list price between 773ER and A346 differs by a hefty 30 million or more (and that makes the 773ER more than 10 million more xpensive than the bigger 744!), its hard to get that back through saving a few liters on fuel or a few less maintenance hours.
And honestly, again, the technical datas of A346 vs 773ER don´t differ that much as the price does!
 
mlsrar
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:28 am

And honestly, again, the technical datas of A346 vs 773ER don´t differ that much as the price does!

Since the 773ER hasn't been in commercial service yet, that's a representation of ignorance on your part. In spite of the fact that the 773ER is performing better than originally projected*, both programmes have a significant amount of evolution to go through before making an apples-to-apples comparison of operating costs.

*http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRH0312/FR0312g.htm
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
BlueJet
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:37 am

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET OVER THE A VS. B FOES AND JUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS. THIS IS RIDICULOUS HOW WHEN PEOPLE SEE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST HINT OF FAVORITISM, THEY JUMP AT THE FACT TO SOUND ANNOUNCE TO EVERYONE. I SEE IT, WE SEE IT WE ALL SEE IT SO WE DONT NEED A WASTE OF A POST TO TELL US. IT JUST ISN'T WORTH IT ANYMORE
 
as739x
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:38 am

Please Please Please, someone tell me where they expect to get the passengers for these planes? Steal EK's passenger? Whats the populations of Qater?
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:24 am

As739x

I'd imagine, given their projected investment in both tourism and new industry, that they'd be looking at India with the world's largest middle class population (see tourists) and the world's second largest labor pool (see workers).

Other than that, tourists from the Moslem world - North Africa, South Asia, South-East Asia, Middle East!

Australia, Europe, the Americas, Africa... the face of the Gulf States is changing. GDB was right in his comparison to CX and SQ twenty or so years ago.
come visit the south pacific
 
gearup
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:34 am

Bluejet said:

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GET OVER THE A VS. B FOES AND JUST ACCEPT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS..............

I agree with you Bluejet but you are wasting your time. There are just too
many folks who HATE Boeing or HATE Airbus and they will just keep it up
ad nauseum! It's a pity really because true airplane lovers who make great
contributions to this awesome website are attacked if they show, as you say,
any sign of a preference for one or the other. Personally I believe that Boeing will lose no further ground to Airbus and if that happens it will be good for both of them. Both manufacturers build beautiful airplanes. I would actually like to see a 3rd force emerge to keep both of them on their toes, Listen-up Antonov......

Gearup
I have no memory of this place.
 
Greg
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:37 am

Clearly my statement is made on the basis on internally generated funds, not gifts from the government.
I think both Emirates and Qatar will shortly be grossly overextended in turns of finance.
Emirates has 22 Billion Dollars of aircraft on backlog. That is ridiculous considering their gross revenue.
 
Leskova
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:54 am

Solnabo, as much as I appreciate (and to some extent share) your enthusiasm about Qatar Airways ordering Airbusses - but your statement should read "So Qatar is STAYING WITH an all-Airbus fleet!"
Smile - it confuses people!
 
codeshare
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:06 am

As739x:

They can offer good connections to Asia and the other way. Thus making Doha a hub like Dubai, but perhaps not as big.
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
Jaws707
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:10 am

Gearup: I dont know about Antonov accomplishing much till Russia reorganizes its entire aerospace industry. I guess they have started to combine companies, but it will probobly take a while to finish it. On the other hand Embraer looks like it is becoming a force in the 90-110 seat market going against the B717, B736, and A318 with their Emb 190/195 series.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:34 am

Just an interesting capacity figure to report:

----
"Both aircraft will feature three-class layouts – the A340-600 seating 325 passengers, and the A380s 460. Qatar Airways will introduce the 376 tonne maximum take-off weight version of the A340-600, which will be powered by four Rolls-Royce Trent 500 engines. The choice of engines to power the A380s will be made later." - Airbus
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
gigneil
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:00 am

They have always stated they will offer the A380 in an extremely-high-luxury configuration, ever since the day of the first MoU.

Expect comfort akin to SQ's 345 throughout economy and business, and expect it to equal EK's in first.

N
 
na
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:04 pm

Mlsrar,
you want to say that a price difference of more than 30.000.000 Dollars isn´t a decisive argument for the A346 over the 773ER? Do you think the Boeing is so great in comparison that an airline can get that back through lower running costs? I don´t deny that there is still enough reason for certain airlines to favour the 777, but the basic prices and the sometimes surprising buying decisions (all in favour of Airbus) of this year can´t just be wiped out. Even if no airline buys at list price these figures indicate that the profitability limits of both companies differ significantly here.
Low dollar, high Euro doesn´t matter. Airbus and Boieng are insured against these up and downs.

And before someone jumps on it: I´m not pro A or B in general. I just think that among all those people praising the 777 everyday here we shouldn´t forget there are other important things than the PR of Boeing who are not getting tired to praise their new product: Money.
 
N754PR
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:37 pm

Whats Qatar's total order for the A346 and the A388??
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Qatar Announces $3B Airbus Order

Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:07 pm

At this point, two of each, plus eight options on A340s.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!

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