SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:10 pm

Singapore Airlines Limited - A Member of Star Alliance - and Swiss International Air Lines (who has said in the past that it would like to mimic the former), are to return to Pakistan according to an "informed sources".

"Both the airlines are expected to come in Pakistan by the first quarter of 2004."

"A group of travel agents have been invited by the area managers of both the airlines to assess the market potential."

More information at the Pakistan Link website
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Vimanav
Posts: 1439
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:33 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:17 pm

SQ I can understand... but when did LX ever leave, that they now have to come back ??

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:26 pm

Who said in the past "they would like to mimic the former"? Can't remember this, just that the statement was that LX aimed to follow the SR reputation of a premium airline. This description nevertheless is NOT a monopoly of SQ.... Semms as if you happened to forget that there is a world of premium airlines besides SQ namely CX (de facto flag carrier of Hong Kong and in my opinion better managed anyway than SQ....).

Anyway, back to topic, I also wasn't aware that Swiss left Pakistan at all. Thanks to inform me about this! (Who said they will stop flying Friday, maybe the press conference is used to announce this huge step ahead following the master of all premium airlines!)  Big grin

Cheers, Thomas

[Edited 2003-12-11 09:43:33]
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:40 pm

SWISS never left or suspended PAKISTAN...infact it increased capacity to 4 flights a week with A 343s and A 332s twice a week each from being 4 weekly A 332s!!!

However, dont be surprised that this means that SWISS is considering LAHORE flights as that was a very strong rumor this August in the Pak travel circles. The rumor was twice weekly flights with A 332s from ZRH via DXB or AUH.

As for SQ, if they withdraw the compulsory visa that PAK passport holders require for SIN which now takes 2-3 weeks to obtain then they will make a lot of money especially by reintroducing their all inclusive 3-4-5 days-1week packages...however if they do not give Pak passport holders visa upon arrival in SIN like they used to and ask for them to get visas which take 2-3 weeks then they will lose $$$ on the route...UNLESS they make sure that visas are given out within 2-3 business days which is not a big deal/hassle. SQ used to do good loads of LHE and KHI 4 times a week with A 343s and sometimes even B 772ERs were deployed!!!
 
docpepz
Posts: 1706
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 8:20 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:21 pm

In the light of all the terrorist activity that's going on in the world it is only prudent that Singapore has visa restrictions on Pakistani nationals.

I believe Singapore has this requirement for most Muslim nations in the world (like the USA) with Indonesia, Malaysia and Morocco being the exceptions.

Plus, Pakistan always had visa requirements for Singaporeans so why shouldn't Singapore reciprocate?

 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:28 pm

visas which take 2-3 weeks

I've never known of a Singapore visa to take 2-3 weeks to obtain. The Singaporean consular staff at the multiple posts I have dealt with them (In India, USA, Canada) have always turned my visa applications (as an Indian citizen) around within 2-3 HOURS. As for Singapore immigration itself, I literally was traveling to there every second week for the first half of this year (17 trips in total over the last 12 months) and never once had a hassle.

[Edited 2003-12-11 13:29:01]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:58 pm

"In the light of all the terrorist activity that's going on in the world it is only prudent that Singapore has visa restrictions on Pakistani nationals." Docpepz above...

Of course - docpepz - with that line of thought - perhaps the Irish and other countries with known terrorist groups (eg Spain, Greece, etc) should also have visa restrictions too. As a Malaysian Christian I find the whole matter rather offensive.
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:57 pm

and Swiss International Air Lines (who has said in the past that it would like to mimic the former)

Will LX cabin crew now also be trained to become 'robots' on the flights where also SQ pax are booked on?  Laugh out loud
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:33 pm

Swiss International Air Lines (who has said in the past that it would like to mimic the former)

Look at the userid of the original posting... Acting devilish
 
MASkargo
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:40 am

docpepz...i must admit that I, as a proud malaysian muslim, find your statements ill thought of, immature and highly offensive. You would think that someone from multiracial singapore would have more tact......but i guess wrong. Looks like Goh Chok Tong should review your Moral Education curriculum....

 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:55 am

I'm also finding the attitude of some Singaporeans here quite offensive and I feel one of them even had me banned from here some months ago, well I'm back and dont see him around sursprisingly.

As Behramjee said SWiss never ever left Pakistan, they may however be planning to start service to Lahore, also as far as I remeber all SQ services to Pakistan had gone 777-200ER from June 2001.
.....up there with the best!
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:53 am

Of course - docpepz - with that line of thought - perhaps the Irish and other countries with known terrorist groups (eg Spain, Greece, etc) should also have visa restrictions too. As a Malaysian Christian I find the whole matter rather offensive.

Those countries that you've mentioned are not exporting their terrorism abroad so that comparison is irrelevant. It's better to be safe than sorry in today's world. This isn't an attack on Islam and Muslims.

Anyway back to the topic. LX never left Pakistan, in fact as someone else mentioned they've upgraded KHI!
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
danialanwar
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:13 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:56 am

Not sure if SQ ever intended for their Pakistan routes to be O&D ... I am sure that connections into Australia help the load quite a bit. And Swiss(air) was one of the few who did not abandon Pakistan and I guess they earned some money on that.

Sorry to participate in the politics in this thread, but people who say "Those countries that you've mentioned are not exporting their terrorism abroad so that comparison is irrelevant. It's better to be safe than sorry in today's world." and in the same breath can add "This isn't an attack on Islam and Muslims." are just blatantly contradicting themselves. How can making life hell for Muslims and Non-Muslims from predominantely Muslim countries not be an attach on Muslims? Just because politicians say so??? wake up!
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
 
Ex_SQer
Posts: 1351
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:43 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:15 am

Not sure if SQ ever intended for their Pakistan routes to be O&D... I am sure that connections into Australia help the load quite a bit.

Actually, it is the connections to the US propped up the loads to/from Pakistan.

 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:07 am

How can making life hell for Muslims and Non-Muslims from predominantely Muslim countries not be an attach on Muslims? Just because politicians say so??? wake up!

Actually it's not because polticians say so. It's because of reality. It's not about profiling, it's about being cautious. Until terrorism stops this is the way to go, unless you have a better solution...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:38 am

The link that is presented as the source of information seems to lack credibility.The standard of aviation journalism in Pakistan is frustrating but as far as the topic is concerned BA just resumed thier flights to Islamabad on the 4th of this month......LX never left Pakistan(i just flew on LX to KHI last month)...my feeling is that indeed it maybe Lahore that they are willing to start and whether SQ is going to return that i dont know...
 
docpepz
Posts: 1706
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 8:20 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:34 am

Oh God.

This is what I said:
------
"In the light of all the terrorist activity that's going on in the world it is only prudent that Singapore has visa restrictions on Pakistani nationals. "
------
I am just parroting what the Singapore Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) said just after September 11 2001. I quite clearly remember that the MFA said that in the light of Sept 11, citizens of Pakistan, Sudan and Saudi Arabia will now require a visa to enter Singapore, and they specifically said it was due to the increased threats to Singapore's security due to terrorism.

Next:
------
"I believe Singapore has this requirement for most Muslim nations in the world (like the USA) with Indonesia, Malaysia and Morocco being the exceptions"
------


I was just stating a fact. I did not in ANY way attack Islam or Muslims! Let me give you the facts straight from Singapore's Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

The nationals of the following belong to "Assessment Level I Countries":

Visa applications by nationals of Assessment Level I countries don't need a letter of recommendation etc to enter the country. Processing time is usually 3 working days but can be done immediately if all documents are in order:


India,
Myanmar,
People's Republic of China (PRC),
Holders of Hong Kong Document of Identity or Macao Special Administrative Region (MSAR) Travel Permit
Commonwealth of Independent States (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan).

This explains why B747-437B, an Indian national, can obtain his visa so quickly. As an Indian, he belongs to an "Assessment Level I" country which does not entail much scrutiny.

The nationals of the following countries belong to "Assessment Level II" countries." Nationals of these countries must submit heaps of paperwork and undergo more scrutiny than applicants from "Assessment Level I" countries. Processing time is officially 10-20 days:

Afghanistan
Algeria
Bangladesh (Except Diplomatic/Official passport holders)
Egypt
Iran
Iraq
Jordan (Except Diplomatic/Official passport holders)
Lebanon
Libya
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
Sudan
Syria
Tunisia (Except Diplomatic/Official passport holders)
Yemen
Holders of Palestinian Authority Passport
Temporary Passport issued by the United Arab Emirates
Refugee Travel Document issued by Middle-East countries

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise the profile of countries that make up "Assessment Level II countries".

Therefore, when I said that

"I believe Singapore has this requirement for most Muslim nations in the world (like the USA) with Indonesia, Malaysia and Morocco being the exceptions,"

I was just stating a fact. I didn't say I agreed with it, I didn't in any way insult Muslims.

Please enlighten me as to which part of that sentence was in ANY way offensive.

And to all the Malaysians who are bashing me, I did clearly state that Malaysia was en exception so I have no idea why you're all so annoyed.

And thank you Maskargo for you kind words regarding my country's moral education lessons. If you had a problem with ME, you could have kept the attack to ME. You did not, however, have to drag my entire country in.
 
danialanwar
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:13 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:05 am

Aviation
Sort of surprised to hear that flight to/from the US popped up load on Pakistan flight ... aint it quite a detour. Funny, how MH flies KUL - DXB - USA, and SQ does Pakistan (almost DXB) - SIN - Northeast Asia - USA. I guess it had to be supported by lower fares, hence making the route volatile to drops in traffic.

Politics again - At the risk of getting burnt, let me try to highlight the issue here:
The problem starts when one highlights the religion of some of the countries, e.g. Pakistan and Morocco being Muslim, and do not treat others in the same way (e.g. Bulgaria being Christian) - then the reason for extra scrutiny becomes Islam, or in the case of Mas777 being linked to something Islamic (i.e. Malaysia), and that is offensive. It is offensive irregardless of who says it and/or parrots it. It's the fact that's offensive, made worse by highlighting it.
It puts a line of though across that everything to do with Islam is bad / guilty until proven otherwise. Imagine you'd apply this to, say, corporate takeovers from US companies abroad, given recent scandals (WorldCom, Boeing, ...) and block them until the companies can prove that they do not cheat. Ouch.
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
 
Ryanair!!!
Posts: 4071
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:55 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:09 pm

Let's be fair to Singapore _Air, when Swiss International Airlines first took to the skies, the CEO indeed said that he wanted the airline to be as successful as SIA.

In fact, I think I even mentioned it in one of my trip reports when I flew with them last year.

Cool it guys, let's not get political here. The situation is bad enough already. Let the Msian/Singapore bashings be confined to the politicians and lets us normal citizens behave like mature adults.

M'sia gave me my fav carrier MAS, and Singapore gave M'sia plenty of tourists. Ok, I am sounding patronizing here. Just trying to ease the tensions!  Big grin
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:49 pm

Can you all please STOP swaying off the main topic of this discussion and take your politics elsewhere and give some opinions on the SUBJECT of this THREAD.

Sean Mendis B747-437B...I have worked for CX in KHI and I know for a fact that it takes 2-3 weeks for a PAK passport holder to get a SIN visa...we get -20-30 ppl bound for SIN per CX flight out of KHI as we have an agreement with SQ KHI to carry pax to SIN for them.
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:58 pm

MASkargo, why are you being so defensive? Did we ask for a lesson on Islam? Docpepz was very professional in his replies. Get over your paranoia, the whole world is not out to get Islam.

Anyway BACK to the topic, so does LX fly 6 times a week to KHI (4 via DXB and 2 via AUH) or is it still 4 weekly flights via DXB?

[Edited 2003-12-12 07:00:16]
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:29 pm

Its 4 weekly all via DXB using 2 A 343s and A 332s per week each.

It used to be 3 weekly A 332s via DXB and 2 weekly A 332s via AUH before SWISSAIR went down the drain!!!
 
lutfi
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:26 pm

Hong Kong also has visa restrictions on Pakistanis now - visa required if transit > 6 hours.

Bangkok has visa restrictions on Pakistanis. Face it, just about the whole world has visa restrictions on Pakistanis.

Well, if you do have a history of military coups, supporting terrorism, and a completely ungovernable province, expect the rest of the world to regard you passport with suspicion!

FWIW, I'm a Muslim too. Even though the terrorists are not true Muslims, they do claim to be acting on behalf of the Ummah. Of course they are wrong, but no need to take it as an insult that other govts decide to impose tough visa rules on certain countries. Its a sensible precaution. Here in Indonesia, all cars are being checked for bombs at the airport and at big buildings. It isn't an insult to all car drivers, it is a sensible precaution to stop car bombers.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:39 pm

I beg to differ...BKK does not have a transit visa for Pakistanis if theyre transitting for less than 12 hrs...however a THAI visa is easily attainable in 3-4 days...HKG u need transit visas for more than a 6 hr transit which CX KHI office takes care of FREE OF COST. This does not effect the PAK pax bound for USA-CAN but it does affect pax from KHI bound for AUSTRALIA and NZ since they have a transit ranging from 8-12 hrs at HKG. Even KUL does not have a transit visa for Pak passport holders and nor does CMB in the region.

 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:58 pm

My comments about the topic being offensive is the fact that it is even being discussed/considered - and not an insult to anyone in particular. I agree that this topic is irrelevant to the subject and should be discussed elsewhere.
 
bravo45
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 5:34 pm

RE: Singapore Airlines, LX Return To Pakistan

Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:48 pm

SQ used to do good loads of LHE and KHI 4 times a week with A 343s and sometimes even B 772ERs were deployed!!!
Until SQ was operating from Lahore, I had mostly seen the 777-200ERs and I am sure they were doing good load from there. I think the price was good (better than PIA) but you have to stop at Singapore for it.
I even remember seeing SQ A-340 a long time ago while I was standing near the end of Runway 36R (The camera wasn't handy and it was a surprise I wasn't expecting)

I remeber all SQ services to Pakistan had gone 777-200ER from June 2001.
Can't remember exactly when but surely SQ had been using their 777s for considerable period of time indicating their growing market and presence there.

And definitely there are many airlines considering Lahore and they have been preparing for it. The new terminal was just one step, they have already upgraded the runway 36R ILS from CAT III to CAT II. The intense fog during the winters was definately one reason they did it early.
BTW I visited the new terminal just days before it was formally opened, courtesy of a friend of my father who was incharge of the accounts department in the Pakistani company supervising the work. We were able to go all over the place, even in the control tower. One of the most delightful experiences of my life.  Smile

About the sad politics that went on earlier, I would blame irresponsibility of some people here. I CAN agree they didn't ment what they made it look like but a lot is wrongly said so casually only because there is too much going on about Islam, Muslims and Pakistan. May Allah protect us all!!