FoxBravo
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AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:34 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031216/datu040_1.html

Wow, looks like AA is responding to HP's invasion of its transcon "turf"...
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:52 am

Is anybody really surprised that they are adding this flight? Please, HP is going into and or after AA's lucrative trans con market. Good for HP to be adding these flights, point to point is going to be added more and more in the future I believe, especially in markets such as this that will support the flights that by pass the hubs. The flying public likes these flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
desertjets
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:58 am

I would hardly say a single 757 counts as retribution for America West flying a few A319s on transcons. From the timing of the flight it looks like it is setup to connect to American's main transatlantic bank, what is left of it I should say.

Delta has one n/s, American has one n/s, America West has 3. Not to mention that America West has far more feed potential on the PHX side than AA does on the JFK side.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:58 am

It may not be a total surprise, but it's nice to see AA putting up a fight. I wonder if this might cause HP to rethink its decision to enter the transcon market.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:00 am

Also let us not forget the flights offered from EWR on CO and ISP on WN.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:06 am

Actually, it's two nonstops. And I don't think either is designed to feed international connections. It seems pretty obvious that the idea is to chip away at HP's traffic on JFK-PHX until HP throws up its hands and drops its transcons. Which, I might add, are fairly significant in that they are the only low-cost nonstops to connect the major airports of JFK and LAX (note that UA and DL are not low-cost, CO flies out of EWR, WN flies out of ISP and not nonstop, and B6 flies to LGB). Whether AA's move will be successful remains to be seen, but it wouldn't be the first time...
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:07 am

From the timing of the flight it looks like it is setup to connect to American's main transatlantic bank, what is left of it I should say.

Then they'll perhaps benefit from LH leaving the PHX market...
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:20 am

I think HP will be fine. They have a very loyal following and there fare structure is popular with business flyers that will fill these seats....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ducker
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:23 am

This isn't really that new...In the regulated 1970's, AA flew 707's and DC-10's non-stop JFK-PHX. In fact, the DC-10 (AA 187) continued to TUS. I am looking at the Jan., 1979 AA timetable online(http://www.geocities.com/airohio/American012079_Page5.html) I would think that currently there should be lots of point-to-point traffic, as the Phoenix metro area is something like the sixth largest in the US, as well as seasonal traffic in the winter.
Ralph
 
scottysair
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:42 am

Well, it is very good to hear for AA is getting new nonstop from JFK-PHX flight and now, the customers will goes on the transcontinental flight and make additional more flight from international flight out of JFK.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:45 am

AA had several JFK-PHX flights until the mid 80s. I personally flew them on this route using B-707 equipment.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
LUV4JFK
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:07 am

Now that they are trying to get America West out of their turf in LA, do you think we'll see any non-stops to LAS to go up against HP, B6 & Song?
John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
 
jeckPDX
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:23 am

HP has been flying PHX-JFK for years. I am looking at an in-flgith magazine from April 1996, right after they introduced their current paint scheme and the route map in the back shows JFK as a destination from PHX. Its intereting to see another major finally pick this up and add a flight.

Brgds

JeckPDX
"Beer is proof that God Loves us and wanted People to be Happy" - Ben Franklin
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:50 am

HP has been flying PHX-JFK for even longer than that...they started sometime in the 80s.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
scottysair
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:51 am

EA CO AS,

How you thought know that about AA was using with nonstop from JFK-PHX from mid-80s? Which one is got make dropped with these flight to PHX before and now, which one is already restarts with those nonstop from JFK-PHX flight. Are you still think remember of AA history with these nonstop out there.
 
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:26 am

Scotty -

Huh? I'll assume you meant, "How did you know what AA was using on their nonstop JFK-PHX flights in the 80s?"

The answer is that I flew JFK-PHX on AA B-707 equipment many times during the early to mid 80s.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:28 am

AA flew the JFK-PHX route for years and years, as mentioned, with 707s and DC10s; TWA also flew the JFK-PHX route with 707s, L1011s and 762s for many many years........AA and TW were the main players in the NYC-PHX market until America West arrived in the ealy 1980s. Its not really a surpirse that AA is re-entering this route: I am sure that America West starting the trancon services gave AA a push, but the AA JFK-PHX flights fit into AA's trancon route scheme out of JFK, will AA flights JFK-LAS follow?

America West has flown from JFK to PHX (and LAS) using a mix of 757 and A32X aircraft, and also saw 747 service for a time when America West operated 2 of the type.

In the early 1990s, America West also operated a JFK-SNA nonstop (for a few months) with a 757....they did not do well with the route, and this was when HP was having major financial problems and closed the route down....I think that they were just ahead of their time.
 
PVD757
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:05 am

Of note is that AA also adds it's 10th JFK-LAX flight on a 767. I guess this is the beginning of thier 7% growth for 2004!
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:20 am

I flew JFK-PHX nonstop in 1980, on a 707 on AA!

 
AA777MIA
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:49 pm

TWA did JFK PHX on an L1011...
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:08 pm

Of note is that AA also adds it's 10th JFK-LAX flight on a 767. I guess this is the beginning of thier 7% growth for 2004!

That is not really of note. All American Airlines trans-cons from JFK to LAX and SFO use 767-200ERs exclusively because they are outfitted in a 3-class configuration with AA's Flagship domestic service, which is used only on JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO, and one MIA-LAX flight.
a.
 
LHR001
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:22 pm

What excellent news for the city of Phoenix!

Keep in mind that America West has a very lucrative clientele base at Phoenix. Perhaps the one that will loose out in the Phoenix market will be Continental Airlines as they service Newark, are no longer connected with America West Airlines. In addition American Airlines lest you not forget offer morning, noon, and evening flights to the Caribbean. Morning, and evening services to London. And evening connections via JFK to Zurich, Paris, Frankfurt, Sao Paulo, and Buenos Aires.

In Summer 2004... American Airlines will connect Phoenix via JFK to Rome, Brussels and quiet possibly Barcelona! These all would be in direct competition with Continental Airlines with the expception of Barcelona which Continental Airlines does not serve! Dont expect all of the traffic to be O & D. A very large chunk of HP traffic on the route are international connections as well! If one was Continental Airlines.... one should be a bit scared!


LHR001
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:34 pm

"What excellent news for the city of Phoenix!"

Why? Sorry but AA flying the route, again, means nothing.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
admluvs2fly
Posts: 136
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:41 pm

I have a question about the geocities site.
Ducker had put up a site for an old AA timetable. If someone could direct me to a site or any site that shows old timetables like that, then i would greatly
appreciate it.

admluvs2fly
 
LHR001
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:31 pm

Imisspiedmont....


You are saying that American Airlines flying the route 2x daily is nothing!

Sorry.... you may be mistaken!


LHR001
 
AV8AJET
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:28 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Delta switches from DL mainline service to SONG, on the PHX - JFK flight. DL had the 763 on the route for a while but now it's on the 757. Soon there will be little mainline 757 flying!
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
zrs70
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:29 pm

I remember in 1984 or 1985 flying JFK-PHX on a 767. One of my first times in that bird!
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:35 am

I agree that JFK-PHX seems like a prime candidate for Song. I can't imagine there's much higher yield traffic on that route than there is to LAS, which is already Song.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:58 am

In addition American Airlines lest you not forget offer morning, noon, and evening flights to the Caribbean.

As does Continental Airlines via EWR. Unlike AA, CO actually has a true hub operation in the N.Y. area. AA definitely has a large operation at JFK, but it's not a "hub" per se.

I agree that JFK-PHX is a great move for AA, but it won't impact CO much, if at all. HP is the big loser here.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
flyboyaz
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:15 am

I think it's great they are flying that route...certainly makes sense for them considering the large operation they have in JFK.

HP is long established on the route, and seeing that the flights are full everyday.....I doubt it will have much impact. AA is going to have to bring their fares down to match HP's not the other way around! DL used to operate a B763 on the route and even that had little or no affect on the HP operation.

Even with all the competition from DL and B6 at LAS, the HP flights continue to be full and overbooked constantly....showing this is truly a strong market.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
aaway
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RE: AA Announces Nonstop JFK-PHX

Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:27 am

Actually AA has a loyal customer base in the PHX/TUS area. I think AA will be successful with this route - even if it means modifying their typical fare structure.
Seems that HP has been in AA's sights for awhile. When HP first tried the simplified fare structure, all the majors, but particularly AA, matched on services to/from PHX. AA starts (and stops) LAX/SJC to PHX/LAS. HP enters the transcon wars. Now AA parries back! Could there be more warring in the offing between these two?
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