cbphoto
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:23 am

Question On Foreign Regs?

Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:42 am

Hey People,
Question regarding foreign registration numbers. Why is it that Sun Country airlines (for example) can use a leased aircraft in the US whiles still wearing a Dutch registration number, yet manufactures have to include a registration number of that particular country whiles doing test flights. For eg. if Boeing were doing test flights with a KLM 777 they would have a US reg number temporally until the aircraft was delivered? See where I am coming from????
If need clarification , please let me know
Cyrus
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
RiverVisualNYC
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:11 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:45 am

Cyrus I asked a similar question a while back, didn't get a really satisfactory response, so I hope this thread does better. I was specifically asking about the Irish registered US Air Commuter Dash 8s, but the Sun Country deal sounds like the same thing. Trying to figure out who the governing authority is and what the crewing requirements are...
 
cbphoto
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:23 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:29 am

RiverVisualNYC seems you are right, does anyone have an answer to this????
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
LastBaron
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:49 am

Could wet leasing/leasing provider's nationality have anything to do with this?
 
RiverVisualNYC
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:11 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:58 am

I am sure it has to do with leasing, but I just wonder the way things are in America right now, wouldn't people be worried about flying a foreign registered, foreign owned aircraft on a domestic flight nominally operated by a US carrier, especially as the legalities in the event of an incident don't seem to be clear-cut as it would be if it was a US owned, registered and operated aircraft.....
 
Olympus69
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:21 pm

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:05 am

I'm only guessing at this, but the use of a manufacturer's registration on new planes may have something to do with certificates of airworthiness. Possibly a plane being exported, to Spain for example, may not get a Spanish C of A until it has been formally accepted by the purchaser - even though it may have already been assigned an EC-xxx registration. In Canada, this reg. will be painted on the plane, with one of the reg's assigned to say, Bombardier, taped over the top of it. I expect a similar system is used by Boeing.
 
411A
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:54 am

IF the aircraft in question is foreign registered, and operated by a US airline, an interchange arrangement is entered into whereby the US operator has operating control, provides maintenance, and the crew that fly the aircraft do so with a license validation issued by the civil aviation regulatory authority of the country of registration.

In addition, if a US registered aircraft is operated by a foreign aircarrier (for example, a US registered B747, leased to Singapore Airlines), the foreign pilots are issued an FAA Airline Transport license, with the following limitation noted...'valid only while operating Nxxxx, leased to Singapore Airlines Ltd.'

Hope this answers your question.
 
cbphoto
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:23 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:45 pm

Hey thanks a lot for the replies, definatly clears it up for me!!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
RiverVisualNYC
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:11 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:01 am

411A
That does explain alot. If it's all pretty much interchangeable, then what stops a US-based airline from registering all its planes in some other country where the various related fees might be cheaper? Essentially the cruise ship industry does this today, registering ships that are marketed in the US and that sail from US ports in places like Panama, Liberia, and the Bahamas to save money. Why can't airlines do the same?
 
411A
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:03 am

Because the FAA says they cannot.
Using foreign registered aircraft for operation with US certificated aircarriers are approved on a one by one basis, and for limited time periods.
 
Trident
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 4:49 am

RE: Question On Foreign Regs?

Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:04 am

A civil aircraft must have a Certificate of Airworthiness to enable it to fly. Foreign aircraft can fly in another country's airspace only if they have a valid Certificate. Leased aircraft often retain the registration of their original owner, whether it be a leasing company or an overseas airline.

Here in the UK we've had the situation of cargo companies operating Russian aircraft (Antonov 124s and Ilyusin Il-76s mainly) and these aircraft having to retain their Russian registrations, even if they were painted up in the full colours of the British operator. This is entirely down to the fact that these aircraft have not been tested by the UK certification authority (the CAA) and are therfore not eligible to carry a UK registration.

Manufacturers retain ownership of their aircraft until formal hand over contracts have been signed. That is why they carry the national ID of the manufacturing companies until formal hand over.

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