bartond
Posts: 647
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:59 am

Iberia's Route System

Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:31 am

Hey I was just thinking of something - why is Iberia's international route structure so limited? It's mainly South America and Europe with a few in Northern Africa and the US. I know they make money so I guess that's why they don't mess with their system but it seems like an economy the size of Spain's (4th largest in Europe I think) could support more flights to more destinations. Tokyo, Hong Kong, etc.? Lack of aircraft? They just got some new A346's so couldn't they use the original aircraft to startup some new routes? LAX would seem like another logical choice.

I'm just thinking out loud here. I don't know what Spain's national airline's service/product is like but if it's anything like their train system, it will be wonderful.
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:56 am

I think Iberia tried Tokyo a few years ago, but the flight wasn't profitable.

While IB's route map lacks numerous points in Asia and southern Africa, their Central and Latin American service is unparalleled. Not only to they have the widest South American network of any European carrier, they also serve the most cities in Latin America, via their mini-hub in Miami.

The true strength of Iberia lies in the Western Hemisphere.

Aaron G.
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:30 am

Actually Spain is maybe the 5th economy in Europe,,

It is behind, Germany, France, UK and Italy.

As for Iberia routes,, i think they should consider having at least one destination on the Far East. There are just so many possibilities... NRT, PEK, HKG, BKK, PVG, ICN, SIN ..........

Rgs,

Neo
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:26 pm


They indeed operated the route MAD-SVO-NRT in the 747-200s a few years ago, but they dropped it. I believe that if NRT didn't work, it would be tough for them to make any other asian destination profitable.

As Trvlr says, their Latin American network is simply impressive. Direct flights to BOG, UIO, LIM, CCS etc., all on A340. From their mini-hub at MIA they serve several Central American destinations such as CUN, PTY and SJO with a fleet of 4 A319. These flights feed also the 2x daily flights to MIA from MAD, one on A346 and the other on A343 or 743/2.

They have a large domestic network aswell. Their well-developed shuttle between MAD and BCN makes this route one of the most active in the whole world, with more than 40 daily flights.

Their markets in the US are the strictly necessary ones, such as MIA, JFK and ORD. Although LAX should be there too. For once I thought YYZ made sense, but after AC's announcement that they would drop the service to MAD, I changed my mind.

If an eventual change comes, I think it would be more frequency on the existing Latin American markets or an aircraft upgrade.


Regards,


SOUTHAMERICA
 
IberiaN
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:41 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:05 pm

Hi!
I have read that Iberia is going to introduce LAX in their routes and maybe Montreal/Toronto (one of them). I think not many Spaniards fly to Tokyo everyday, or in a week, and of course to any other Asian cities like Bangkok or Beijing, I think China and Japan, and Asia in general, sounds like something exotic for us. But I think every airline has differnet destinations: BA is one of the most important carrier to US and Asia, also Africa, LH is important in routes to Asia and Africa, for example, Sabena was one of the most important airlines flying to Africa and in this case, Iberia has the best connections to South America (All of them from Europe)
regards
Emilio.
Has decidido puntualidad, has decidido Iberia ;)
 
AirGAbon
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Iberia's Route System

Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:15 pm

You forgot AF one of the most important airlines flying to Africa + South America (after IB).
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16004
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Iberia's Route System

Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:33 pm

Not really relevant to the thread, but I'll be visiting MAD in January - third or fourth time in 1.5 years. It'll only be for aviation reasons (I've spent quite a while in the city of Madrid), but still - it'll be very enjoyable! Big grin Can't wait.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:03 pm

Does the same happen with Spanish companies? Latin america is full of spanish companies like Telefonica, BBVA, Banco Santander, etc. and they are really strong here. Do they have any presence in the rest of the world?
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:48 am

IberiaN,

Are you sure IB is going to start flights to Canada?? I really don't think so. Air Canada recently announced that they were going to cut the YYZ-MAD service next year in the 767-300. And I'm sure IB at one point said that they were not really interested in the market. I just don't see it in the horizon.

Maybe the LAX flight is a lot more feasible.


Regards,

SOUTHAMERICA
 
airliner777
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 6:38 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:58 am

I'm sure Iberia is making lots of profit with their Havana flights.


Regards,
Adel
 
richardw
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:02 am

I think the other One World airlines may prevent IB flying to certain destinations, and with so many MAD-LHR flights per day I don't blame them!
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:20 am

Pe@rson,

If you tell me when are you coming to Madrid I´ll buy you a beer!!


Alfonso
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
rojo
Posts: 2256
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:07 am

Iberia dropped MIA-CUN in favor of more MAD-MEX flights!
The Mexican government took their 5th freedom rights on the MIA-CUN-MIA when they applied for a second MAD-MEX frequency.

Spanish companies have great presence in Latin America, but not a real presence in other parts of the world. Telefonica, for example, has done major investments in Mexico, buying small mobile companies to become a major player; Santander and BBVA own the second and third largest banks in Mexico. And there are many small companies owned by Spanish people here in Mexico, so flights to MAD are always full.

I also think that IB needs to start MAD-LAX. They could fill a daily A343 without problems and use AA flights to fill the flight with people from TIJ (Using SAN), SAN, SFO, PHX, etc...
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:48 am

Of course that business and cultural influence are very important defining an airline's market strength but at least on Iberia's case geography plays an important part as well.

Pax going to Asia would need to backtrack southwards or southwesternwards to get to Spain and take a longer flight to get to Asia. Doesn't make much sense, does it? On the other hand, if you are in Europe and want to reach Latin America there is nowhere more logical to go than Spain (apart from Portugal).

My two cents here
 
FinnWings
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:59 am

Does Iberia has any intentions start flights to Helsinki again? They used to fly here daily still approximately 4 years ago but then the service was dropped. I know the route was very profitable for IB and they had excellent load factors too. They claimed that reason for dropping Helsinki route was lack of capacity.

Nowadays only Finnair has daily nonstop flights from HEL to MAD and BCN with very good load factors so I believe there is quite good market potential for IB too. Also Finland is getting more popular tourist destination for Spanish too especially in winter... IB could also feed passengers in Finnair's extensive Asia network and offer shorter total travel times to those destinations than via LHR for example, because the flight route from Spain to Asia is shortest geographically over Finland and here 1hr is fine connecting time compared to 2-3 hours at LHR.

Regards,
FinnWings
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:17 am

Iberia dropped MIA-CUN in favor of more MAD-MEX flights!

They didn't drop it, they just don't have local traffic rights anymore.

I also think that IB needs to start MAD-LAX. They could fill a daily A343 without problems and use AA flights to fill the flight with people from TIJ (Using SAN), SAN, SFO, PHX, etc...

They probably could fill a daily 343, but they would fill it with low-yielding, vacation travelers. The problem with LAX is the same that SAS and Alitalia had. While a very high-yielding and prominent business destination, from certain long-haul European destinations, the yield is just not there. Madrid is one of them. Also, AA discontinued LAX-PHX. AA/IB are best routing passengers through MIA, ORD, and JFK.
a.
 
DETA737
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2000 3:47 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:49 am

In the late 80s and early 90s IB served DEL, DFW, LAX, NRT and even HKG at various times. These destinations were unprofitable so they dropped them. MAD is a natural hub for flying from Europe to Latin America. This is Iberia's niche market where they make their most money. They have their OneWorld partners to connect pax to other points around the world, so why bother losing money on long thin routes just to have a global presence?
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:03 am

LAX most likely will not be reintroduced...as we flew there in the 1980's and it did not work out. The code-share with AA is working just fine for now out of LA....but the amount of traffic does not warrant a daily non-stop flight. What is being studied right now is possibly Boston as a new destination.
Visca Barça!!
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:31 am

Rafabozzolla,

I disagree partially with you. Although what you posted makes sense, I would say that reasons for taking a flight X over another flight Y vary from passenger to passenger, in other words, they are subjective circumstances.

Geographically it's obviously more convenient to hop to Spain or Portugal first when traveling from Europe to Latin America. But, if another airline, let's say AF offers a cheaper fare connecting through CDG, I'm positive that many people (not all though) may prefer the low fare over the geographical advantage. It all depends on the situation. Again, it's subective.


Regards and Merry Christmas


SOUTHAMERICA
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:34 am


And I forgot to mention above that apart from lower fare, the other airline may offer better connection times, provide a better service, or simply benefit you more flying with them.

SOUTHAMERICA
 
nm19371
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 12:32 pm

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:51 am

It would be great to see IB in BOS! (didn't they fly there in the early to mid 80s?) I love their CS and it would make sense too, since flying through LHR or CDG from MAD-BOS is going backwards. I hope they go through with it.
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Iberia's Route System

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:12 am

Hi to everyb.
I'm a new member.I worked by Iberia two years ago,and the IB's routes system always coincide with the main interest for the spanish's economy expansion:Western Europe and Latioamerica.IB (and specially MAD airport) is the best way for travelling to South America from Europe...reasonables prices and good freq. UX (with code share Aeropostal)is another alternative.
MAD's airport is served too by LA,AR,AV,RG and the main latinamerica carriers with a great number of flights between Spain and South America.
In the 90's IB flow to NRT...for a few years  Sad the same case was LAX,but never HKG.The IB's profitable markets are in not particular orden:
1.-domestic,specially MAD-BCN route
2.-EU
3.-LatinAmerica
For IB,to try it again in Asia's market is a real aventure,is science fiction.IB now is a oneworld member,with partners like BA and CX...they have a lot of destinations in S.E. Asia and the far east.
Just is an opinion...and sorry for my eng,isn't very good still
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft