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legacyins
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SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:28 pm

I was standing outside the International terminal this evening getting some fresh air and standing next to me was the PM Duty Manager for SFO. So, I picked his brain about any new service prospects.

Air New Zealand executives were at SFO last week and they would like to start service into SFO 3 times a week on a 747. The service would be a direct service form Auckland to SFO. They are pushing for an 8:30 AM arrival but he airport would like to push them over to the "A" terminal because the "G" terminal is almost at Max capacity at that time of the morning. As we know, Air New Zealand is a Star member, so look for the airport to accomindate. No word on a start date.

When Alitalia suspended service, they told the airport they would not be back. Well, the air carrier made it clear that they wish to re-start service to SFO. Nothing confirmed but look for 2005.

Aer Lingus will start service into SFO when the Shannon requirement is dropped. As we know, EU/US negotiator may come to an agreement by late next year.

Emirates staff have been around the airport a half dozen times and told SFO they will start service into SFO. Again, No dates.

Now the BIG one. SFO was notified by Virgin USA that SFO and Boston are the two finalist for their base. LAX was dropped last week. Argue all you want about delays and other factors but these are the facts.
 
AndrewAir
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:52 pm

That's great news for SFO. Traffic here at SFO has slowed at a small trickle since 9/11. Don't forget VN starting in late 2005 I think.



AMc
 
aaway
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:58 pm

New terminal in place, and reduced air traffic (thus fewer delays) makes SFO look particularly attractive. Of course, can't say enough about the city, or Bay Area: large, very diverse population, superior demographics, great industry and trade, etc.
If having superior facilities (SFO vs. LAX) is a criteria, SFO will have this arena locked up for the next few years. LAX's vision of itself is quite hazy and, as a result, will probably see a lot of potential new international traffic divert to SFO.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
sprxflySWA
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:00 pm

I hope Virgin US does pick SFO. Better chance that I could experience their service,seeing BOS isn't that close to BOI (geographically,not alphabetically. Smile)
 
as739x
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:32 pm

Legancy. thanks for the news...Post anything else you get if you can, good stuff. Stop by AS Ops under gate 20 if are ever over there!
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
copaair737
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:54 pm

Legacy- Great news for SFO, and thanks for the info. I think that SFO could have the edge over BOS in the Virgin USA race, because if VS wants to fly the A380 in, SFO is one of the most A380 ready airports in the country, a definite plus. Great news for SFO, cant wait to see the new carriers there, especially NZ and EI.

[Edited 2003-12-20 05:57:47]
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
tzsfo
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:38 pm

I'm wondering where Virgin USA and the airport think they are going to get gate space?

Terminal 1 - pretty much maxed out
Terminal 2 - Closed for renovation
Terminal 3 - United and AA give up space?.....please
IT Terminial - No assigned gates,No assigned ticket counters, CUTE/MUSE system that screws up any CRS on a daily basis...

just wondering.......but I guess they know things I don't....

TZ
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
 
johnboy
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:46 pm

If Virgin were to consider SFO, why not get that "Closed for renovation" old International Terminal out of mothballs.

There's your gates right there.

I'm not debating the accuracy of this story (hope it's true), but SFO just seems to be away from Eastern population centers for any Virgin LCC.

Although SFO would be a primo location for long-term hook up with Virgin Blue and Virgin Atlantic.
 
copaair737
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:48 pm

Johnboy- I was thinking that too. If they started a flight to HNL, the VS USA and Pacific Blue could hook up there, that is, if Pacific blue were to go to HNL from AKL or SYD. A flight to HKG could also be started from SFO too.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
aaway
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:04 pm

Off topic for a momemt...
TZSFO or As739x, perhaps you guys can answer this question.
I was under the impression that T-2 (former Int'l Terminal) was destined for AA once the renovation was completed. T or F?
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
irishpower
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:17 pm

Legacyins--funny coincidence--I was just talking to my cousin today about SFO--he works for them in their development dept. and he was telling me about Vietnam Airlines starting service as well as Aer Lingus.

He also told me that a Chinese delegation was here not too long ago to discuss I think either China Eastern or China Southern coming to SFO.


 
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RayChuang
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:19 pm

I think Alitalia (AZ) may be coming back to SFO sooner than people think. The issue that hurt AZ's last attempt on the MXP-SFO route was the pax/cargo restrictions flying westbound; once AZ gets enough 777-200ER's, they can fly MXP-SFO at least 5 time per week with no pax/cargo load restrictions.

I think NZ will likely fly AKL-SFO as soon as they select their next generation of long-range aircraft and get enough of them. The prospect of A340-600HGW's or 777-300ER's in NZ colors at SFO sounds interesting, to say the least.  Smile

EK will likely use the A340-600HGW on the DXB-SFO route, probably with a technical stop at SNN.

Anyway, SFO will very likely be one of the first airports in the USA to get A380-800 service. Given that SQ 001/002 (SIN-HKG-SFO-HKG-SIN) is SQ's most lucrative route outside of SIN-LHR service, I wouldn't be surprised that SQ flies the A388 on this route by the middle of 2006 as soon as SQ gets enough A388's.
 
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EK413
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:48 pm

I'm curious if Qantas could resume services to SFO as soon as they receive the A388?
I see a high possibility of that happening considering LAX isn't prepared to handle a single A388. SFO Here we come hey!
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
MAH4546
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:55 am

EK will likely use the A340-600HGW on the DXB-SFO route, probably with a technical stop at SNN.

It will be an A340-500, non-stop.
a.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:12 am

I don't think EK wants to fly the A340-500 non-stop between DXB and SFO. That's a VERY long flight and the westbound leg could have fairly substantial pax/cargo restrictions.

Remember, the Great Circle distance between DXB and SFO is 7,041 nautical miles. Given the high ground temperatures at DXB during the summer and flying against prevailing winds all the way west to SFO, EK will have to limit the load of their A345's in order to fly DXB-SFO non-stop. This is why EK would be better served by flying the A340-600HGW with one technical stop at SNN.
 
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legacyins
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:01 am

I read on the Yahoo Irish board that EK was looking at starting service into DUB. Could they continue the service onto SFO from there or do they need to follow the SNN requirement? Also, would they have 5th freedom rights?
 
MAH4546
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:06 am

I don't think EK wants to fly the A340-500 non-stop between DXB and SFO. That's a VERY long flight and the westbound leg could have fairly substantial pax/cargo restrictions.


The flight was going to launch, I think, 1 June 2004. It was put into some res systems and the schedule was posted on a.net. It was going to be non-stop, the 345 can handle it.

Could they continue the service onto SFO from there or do they need to follow the SNN requirement? Also, would they have 5th freedom rights?

Third country carriers do not have the 50/50 requirement, but Ireland would likely not open up DUB to them (they haven't in the past to Aeroflot and Royal Jordanian). Only SNN.
a.
 
ka
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:14 am

"...and flying against prevailing winds all the way west to SFO"

The shortest way from DXB to SFO is almost exactly via the northpole. Through newly implemented airways there will be no flying against the wind towards the west. They fly north, then south.

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
nwacrew
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:38 am

I saw an Air Vietnam 777 or 767 (can't remember which) several months ago at SFO. Was it a charter flight?
 
copaair737
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:38 pm

NWAcrew- It wasnt a charter flight, it was a delivery flight. They stopped at SFO to announce the intentions to serve the US, and the first destination would be SFO.

Right now it seems that SFO will get some new carriers either in 2004 or 2005. Im looking forward most to EI or NZ.
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ZK-NBT
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:14 pm

I think NZ will likely fly AKL-SFO as soon as they select their next generation of long-range aircraft and get enough of them. The prospect of A340-600HGW's or 777-300ER's in NZ colors at SFO sounds interesting, to say the least.

It is my understanding Ray that NZ will likely start this route next year if they have enough 744's! I heard a little while back about a new long haul route for NZ, SFO is surprizing to mebeing that NZ have a rather large hub at LAX but it is good to see them expanding their network!

NZ's 744's should be in the fleet for a few more years yet.

Good to see more airlines flying to SFO!
 
irishpower
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:23 pm

What about the chances of Thai or Malaysian?
 
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ramprat74
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:51 pm

I bet the Vietnam Airlines flight will be a cash cow. Doesn't United have flying rights to Saigon? Pan Am served there. I always heard rumors about it.
 
nwacrew
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:00 pm

I'm thrilled at the thought of Emirates flying over the pole from Dubai! I found their service to be flawless.

I travel frequently to Egypt and it's a long, hard slog from here. SFO-DBX-CAI sounds like a dream come true for me!
 
as739x
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:38 am

MAH-what system did you see EK SFO-DBX in? Not in Sabre
Ka-Correct, it goes directnorth, then south.
Aaway-I think TZSFO and I are wondering the same thing. AA was said to be moving there cause the lease on the present gate will not be extended. UA wants the gates back. Maybe they will get 9 gate or so and Virgin USA would have the other 4 or so. There will be 13 gate there when done compared to the 10 before.
RayC-I'd agree. The AZ flight did very well. Specially with a damn 763. Can't wait to see them back here.!
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
SuperDash
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:38 am

Southwest has shared SFO info with Virgin USA. Actually they left out the part that SFO costs way more to operate at than SJC and OAK.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Southwest should be grinning ear to ear if VUSA picks SFO. Sounds like another chance for Southwest to beat the hell out of another startup (re LGB and JetBlue). I would bet that VUSA picks BOS. Less low fare competition and more people. The West Coast fares are low already and it is not a profit rich environment. I think SFO will be lucky to see any new domestic service. They will get small amounts (like Air Tran) but Horizon's choice of OAK for Sun Valley service is definitely a trend on SFO - Costs too much.
 
as739x
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:15 am

SuperDash-OAK over SFO a trend? I have stated the reason (QX) for them going to OAK many times. SFO will not allow a prop at a jetway gate, OAK will. SFO was choice 1, OAK 2. Horizon (shall I say your ppl, you work for them, right?) were here trying to get SFO to allow it, but with no luck. How is WN dropping SFO a trend? They already were big at SJC and OAK. We got Airtran over SJC and OAK. OAK got JetBlue. It all seems balanced. OAK and SJC are running out of room very quick, remember that. SFO may be the only choice really soon.By the way, SFO is offering half price on any new service started here for all landings. That had helped reduce price. That has also started HP SFO-JFK/BOS and TZ SFO-HNL additional flight/EWR and maybe more to come.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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ramprat74
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:01 am

Don't they suppose to tear down concourse A when the new concounrse opens up? If they do, they can add more international gates to the pier. AA is suppose to move into the new gates. UA wants the F gates back.
 
as739x
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:11 am

RampRat74-Correct, the A concourse of T1 will be torn down when gates are available for US at T3. United needs gates to open up from my understanding. T2 (old Intl) will be AA, but will be configured for 13 gates. I don't see why AA needs 13 gates. When the old concourse A is torn down, it will open gate 1/3/5 at the International terminal which are blocked now?
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
copaair737
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:48 am

AA taking all the gates is really odd, perhaps they will expand at SFO, which would be a good thing. When would T2 be ready to take flights, and when would concourse A of T1 be demolished?
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UA744Flagship
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:51 am

UA wants the E gates, supposedly to make it an RJ terminal...
no wire hangers!
 
as739x
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:00 am

Copa-a long time. They are currently working on the terminal and ramp to support it. Its currently sinking. Yes, thats true. So it need a lot of work.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
SuperDash
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:39 pm

AS739X-
Not what I heard. I fly QX all the time (MVP with AS/QX, not an employee, but definite aviation geek). From what I heard from QX - OAK was always #1. SJC was also considered. SFO was out right away due to costs and and weather delays. There has never been a dispute with the Q400 at SFO. Does AS have an employee question/suggestion forum? Maybe through the website? or email? Ask QX, I bet they will tell you. You post good stuff, but then again, your facts seem off from what I have heard from the QX folks. Ask QX for the real answer. Then report back to all of us.

And BTW-SWA is a trend. If they say it costs them too much to op at SFO, then I believe them. You don't become the best run, most profitable airline in the country because you make bad decisions. SWA is huge in the Bay area and they probably made millions by switching from SFO. OAK and SJC both have plans to add gates. That will increase costs but they are so far behind SFO that it won't matter. SFO will only get no-name domestic airlines that have to use SFO for the name. Most (but not all) big time domestic adds will come at SJC and OAK. International flights will likely go to SFO unless SFO losses too much service to become too cost prohibitive.
 
Spark
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:18 pm

Southwest never did switch from SFO to OAK! They were only a small operator at SFO, and decided to drop it for the same reasons they dropped DEN. At the time SFO was operating a capacity, as far as runway traffic was concerned. Anytime there is a breath of rain, SFO needs to reduce the capacity of its runways, which caused huge delays. SFO was second to LGA in traffic delays in 2000. DOT bomb followed by 9/11, and UA's troubles all hit SFO really hard, so the traffic isn't anywhere near what it was.
Southwest is so big at OAK, and not that small at SJC, it didn't make a lot of sense for them to have such meager operations out of SFO.
BTW, ATA is really hitting the Bay Area big with its advertising, and its main point is that it is more convenient than Southwest (although they don't mention them by name).
Of course, for me OAK is much more convenient (I live about 15 minutes from Oakland, and 30 minutes with a bridge from SFO), and travel out of OAK as much as possible.
As far as Virgin USA going to SFO. Trust me, Southwest is very strong in California, and unlikely to give it up for anybody. They have so many flights around California that it is almost a guarantee that people will fly Southwest for regional flights. (We just assume you're flying WN when picking people up).
 
copaair737
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:26 pm

I have heard about the prop problem at SFO. If props do fly into SFO, they must land at the remote terminal, near the UA terminal, it seems to me that TZ once wanted to have SAABs, and they were told they would have to use the remote terminal, so the idea was scrapped. I think that happened, do not hold me to it however.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
as739x
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RE: SFO International Prospects And...

Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:35 pm

SuperDash-with all due respect, I only post facts cause anything else is a waste of peoples time and money. Please don't disrespect me. If you don't even work for QX, how can you question the fact that I know? I spoke with a pilot of Q400's that does station observations, and I was working the day QX came to speak with SFO. Some of your reasons with cost may be valid cause I never got the final word.I will admit that much. Last I was told was the A/C type was the reason. Thats a fact! So I don't wanna argue, but my facts are valid, please don't question that cause I give information to many people on here and want then to have faith in the information I give them I'm an airline employee who does get some fact not seen outside the airline family. "The facts and only the facts"
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"