DLKAPA
Topic Author
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:40 pm

Ok lets build an airline. Starting as a US based carrier, then to expand internationally. First main point to address is Hub locations and route structure, then A/C types, Fares, Amenities, and so on.

For Hub locations my picks are DEN for the main hub, not because I live there (although that is part of it  Smile ), then for east coast would be MIA, and for the west coast SEA. Routes would be mostly Hub/spoke from these locations, but some point to point between focus cities such as Oakland, Omaha, MSP, DTW, Oklahoma City, LGA, BWI, FLL, and PHX.

Aircraft would be 738, 752, 772, and A320 Family. Regionals would fly Bae-146, DHC Dash-8, and Embraer Brazilia.

Of course It would be a non union LCC with IFE and meal service every flight, and Two class cabin, but my idea with first class is that you can't just come in off the street, that you have to earn FF, and FF will get you first class all the way when you use it, in other words, if you use your FF, you will automatically fly First class.

Any thoughts?

DLKAPA

and P.S. if this was done before, I apologize, as Forum Search only works for First Class members.



And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
COAB767
Posts: 1313
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:32 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:11 pm

Nice, but I would prefer to have an airline without Airbus A320s
Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:31 pm

Build an airline? Hrm....

- One class configuration
- Leather seats
- IFE in every seat (purchased for nominal fee at point of ticket purchase, but also pay-for-view on board using a credit card)
- Optional hot- & cold-meal service (bought as an add-on at point of ticket purchase)
- Internet portal used as central point of all ticket sales
- In-house kitchenmeal prep
- snacks and non-alchoholic beverages are free
- Five- or Six-type fleet only, preferably from one manufacturer

That's a start.....
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
planemannyc
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:40 pm

Goose,

Other than the in-house kitchen, you already have that airline: JetBlue. Ok, so make the IFE a bit more fancy -- you can have JetBlue with Song IFE!

As for Eric --

yours sounds more like one of the traditional (and most likely money-losing) majors! Sorry to rain on your 'virtual' parade, but I think any new airline in the US has to be a LCC. Your route structure sounds pretty neat, though.



 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:03 pm

Goose,

Other than the in-house kitchen, you already have that airline: JetBlue. Ok, so make the IFE a bit more fancy -- you can have JetBlue with Song IFE!

--

Well, my ideal airline would be "one-class" system.... but would also be more of a "network" carrier in terms of utilizing a hybrid hub-and-spoke system while offering point-to-point on some "regional" flights. The airline would be set up for international routes as well - again, in a one-class configuration. To me, it doesn't make sense to have a difference of hundreds of dollars for two seats on the same airplane.

I would offer scheduled service as the backbone of the airline business, but also offer charter operations to "sun" destinations in partnership with a vacation-package company.

The meal service I added because catering companies charge ridiculous sums for in-flight meals. Those disgusting "chicken or fish" meals of yesteryear (and still lurking on some airlines) usually cost $30 a pop or more. It can be done better, perhaps using McDonald's-style line production or the type of preparation found in any restaurant - made-to-order and delivered to the flight before departure, depending on which customer is where and what he or she ordered.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
MD11Lover
Posts: 436
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:40 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:12 pm



I think a nice wavey light blue livery would be nice. Something of a mic between the patterns of the new aeroflot and the colors of Korean or KLM.

Md11lover
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:10 pm

DLKAPA

"Ok lets build an airline. Starting as a US based carrier, then to expand internationally. First main point to address is Hub locations and route structure, then A/C types, Fares, Amenities, and so on".

"Aircraft would be 738, 752, 772, and A320 Family. Regionals would fly Bae-146, DHC Dash-8, and Embraer Brazilia".

Okay, lets build the airline from the ground up & NOT the other way around!

As far as the aircraft type's you selected I would select the B738 to commence "REVENUE" Domestic services as it has great range capabilities. Regionals I would select the DHC Dash-8 range. You wouldn't require B752's (except on the high density routes). B772's would be better suited for the International Market.

You should consider what cost base & market your trying to attract either LCC or Full Service Carrier. A LCC wouldn't require Amenities & Catering, BUT, on the other hand a Full Service Carrier would require these extras.

As far as HUB Location, it all falls into the LCC OR Full Service Carrier catergory. Selecting major Hubs you would face high landing fees & taxes, ground handling fees etc. A airport that isn't well established would like to attract a NEW carrier with LOWER fees!

To become profitable carrier & let alone a well known carrier you have to start off establishing your airline with domestic destinations & when demand for international routes is high then & only then re-think your fleet options.

Well, that's my idea on starting up my airline.

Any comments???

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:17 pm

Cessna 207,

Hanger

Basketball net in the back of the hanger.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
fritzi
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 2:34 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:40 pm

Ill start off by donating 1000 €.

Now where are we gonna get the rest of the 49,999,000 €?  Confused
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1236
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:49 pm

I would recommend to use Boston as the east coast hub and Oakland as the eastcoast hub and Ft. Lauderdale for flight to South America!
Aircraft: 737-700/800/900, B-767`s (until the 787-200 is available!), 777

Flights from BOS to LGW/CDG/FRA/MUC/MAN/CPH/ZRH/ATH/MAD/TLV/HKG/NRT
Flights from OAK to LGW/FRA/NRT/HKG/KIX/SYD/AKL/MNL/TPE/SHA
Flights from FLL to LGW/CDG/FRA/MAD/GRU/GIG/BUE/SCL and the rest of South America!

IFE on all Aircrafts, Business Class (BusinessONE Class and Comfort Class)
Meal Service on all flights over 1500 miles, Snack Serivce on all Flights.
FF Programm and Codeshare with Virgin Atlantic, Olympic Airlines (the new one), Eva Air etc.

Build up a world class airline everybody wants to fly with. We do need an Emirates/Singapore Airlines/Virgin Atlantic like airline in the US.
An Airlines other airlines talk about!

Name: ???
B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-788/DC-10-10/30/L-1011-1/500/MD-81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL-18/ATR-42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
mandala499
Posts: 6459
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:42 am

OK, guys, how about having a little bit a constraint here...

"Let's build an airline for less than $20m"

Now, that makes it a completely yet more realistic ball game Big grin Enough about hearing dreams about wanting to start an airline with a megahub, and various IFEs...

Now, any takers?

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
ilikeyyc
Posts: 1326
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:09 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:37 am

If I were to build this airline, I would choose the B737-700 for domestic flights as well as the CRJ-200 for regional stuff. I like the prop planes, but the general public doesn't know squat about aviation and they seem to think that jets are somehow safer than prop planes. I would stick with just two types of aircraft to keep costs down.

I would start with the North American market at first and wait a long time before going to another continent. I have notices a general lack of LCC flights between the US and Canada. Maybe we could capitalize on that. America West is doing a good job across the border.

I would put my hub at Kansas City (MCI) given that it is in the middle of the USA and the continent for that matter.

I also think that if the point to point stuff works for Southwest and the Hub and spoke works for many others, why not combine the two. Have half of the Available Seat Miles (ASMs) going in and out of MCI and the other half of the ASMs on point to point flights that do not go to MCI.

Since business travel is the heart of most of the airlines, I would target the business traveler as my main customer.

I would not try to copy another airline's ways of success, but I would be sure not to copy the ways others have failed.

Remember, the only way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a big one!
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:01 am

my VA is a LCC that flies 3 class 767-400s and 3 class 737-800s. The name: Florida Caribbean Virtual Airways (callsign FloridaCa... FC)
First Class....designed exactly to DL specs! I took the DL models to design the planes, so it worked out best
Caribbean Traveler: basicly economy plus! (first 3 to 5 rows)
Coach: DLs coach, but the first few rows are removed!

we fly from 3 hubs
BOS, FLL, DEN

we fly to:
LAX, LAS, SEA, SFO, DFW, ATL, LGA, JFK, HNL, OGG, ANC, BDA, NAS, SXM, SJU, AUA, MBJ, KIN (VIA MBJ), POS, Barbados and STT...
with plans to add in 2004:
ABQ
PHX
TUS
SLC
IAH
MIA
PVD
DL / KBDL), USA - Connecticut">BDL
FAI
STL
ORD
Saint Croix
PDX
SNA
SAN
LGB
OAK
Reno
Sacramento
Vail/Aspen
Colorado Springs
BNA
MEX
Bogota
and Caracas

and who knows where after that!

service starts in March 2004, hiring this JANRUARY!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
Ant72LBA
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:42 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:03 am

Ok, I'm in dreamland here but if LBA can keep the fees down why not go for the novelty value of flying here instead of MAN. Must be worth at least a daily service with a 744............................. (and then I woke up!).

Seriously I don't think we could build an airline in the traditional sense in the current market. It would have to start out as an LCC or a niche carrier seeking out those margins like a bloodhound!
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:42 am

My airline would be named, in the spirit of the latest round of airlines:

Yippee!

yep, that's the name.

Mixed fleet of 717's, A340's, and 727's.

Full service, first class leather seating, and fully competitve fares as well as a strategic and state of the art route network:










 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:56 am

Y'all realize that the above proposed route map is a joke, right?
 
sprxflySWA
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:37 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:13 am

Hey Matt D, hope the A340s fly Pocatello-Presque Isle,that would be a real moneymaker. I see Jackson has moved to where Gulfport is.Better location?

Now,forget any mainline type planes and focus all CRJ-700/-900. Two class service,all seats have IFE/PTV.
Hub city-OKC. Forget MCI,terminal layout blows for any type of mass connections.
Routes: OKC-SEA,SFO,LAX,PHX-SAN,LAS,HOU,MSY,BNA,ATL,MCO,PIE,CLT,DCA,EWR,MDW,MSP.
Maybe have a "network" airline as OUR codeshare. United,the TranSky Airlines link.
Have a FF program based on trips flown,with bonus by fare paid.
I bet it would operate for about 9 months!!


Fly TranSky Airlines,the best choice thru the air!
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:36 am

Hub: MCI

Aircraft Boeing 717-200. All one Class 2 by 2. Leather IFE each seat. Cap 92 approx 33 inch pitch.

Inflight Service: Beverages and light snacks.

Service to major US cities from MCI. Coast to Coast and up and down the Midwest.


BOS LGA EWR DCA IAD ATL MCO TPA FLL MIA DTW ORD MDW MSP TUL OKC OMA DFW AUS SAT HOU ABQ DEN SLC PHX TUS LAS SAN LAX SFO SMF PDX SEA RNO MKE STL CMH

The Name: "THE PLANE" "Never get caught in the middle" ( remember 2by2 seating)

Ah and Happiness was had by all. Oh. I would make Piedmont Girl the Training Department Head. Just think of how nice all the flight attendants would be.


Safe Flying and Happy Holidays  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:01 pm

heres my fleet... all one seniority list: From a pilots perspective.. this is an airline i would want to fly for... best of all worlds, and cool route capabilities  Smile




DCH-8 Q400- efficient short range
CRJ-200- slightly longer range, low density
ERJ-170, 190-ditto.. a tad more density
A319, A320- domestic... you get the idea
B-757-200, B767-400- domestic heavy
A-330-200, A330-300-european and asian
A-340-500/600- long range
B-747-400/400F- long range heavy ops- also cargo....


IFE in all seats for every aircraft larger than a CRJ.. the pay for a meal basis ticket...

Bases.. hmm... seattle, dallas, tampa, and newark, boston or new york....


Sounds good to me!
Chicks dig winglets.
 
PiedmontGirl
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:39 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:32 pm

Flyguyclt:

Oh. I would make Piedmont Girl the Training Department Head. Just think of how nice all the flight attendants would be.

I would be honored to be the head of your Training Department. What a grand lot of fun that would be. Such a nice airplane and such nice service could be done. Just lovely.
 
airways6max
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:22 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:10 pm

Here's what I would like to do:

I would like to build an airline along the lines that JetBlue did. I would name it Atlantic & Pacific Airlines, reflecting the fact that it flies from coast to coast and that it serves destinations in Europe and in the Pacific Rim, as well as elsewhere. I would offer to help with United's financial problems by offering to buy their Pacific network. My concentration would be on trunk routes and international routes. There would be several variations of Atlantic & Pacific. I would operate a dedicated fleet of corporate jets and specially outfitted luxury aircraft. I would also operate a LCC, along with the mainline operations. All three entities would operate under the same name, but the differences would be denoted by different colors. For example, the luxury and corporate aircraft would be painted purple and gold. The mainline operations would be blue and gold. The low-cost operations would be red and gold.

Fleet would be all Boeing--737, 747, 757, 767 and 777.

737-700 Domestic
737-800 Domestic
747-400 International
757-200 Domestic
767-300 Domestic/International
777-200 High-density domestic/International

As much as possible, I would try to operate point-to-point network, but I would place my hubs at JFK, ORD, BNA, DFW and LAX. Nashville would be the base of operations. No airline is based there and it is a relatively lightly used airport with a lot of potential. The domestic network would be coast-to-coast and evenly spread throughout all of America. I would also operate routes to Latin America, Europe, Asia and the Pacific. Latin America would primarily be served from JFK, DFW and LAX. Europe and Asia would be served from JFK and ORD. The Pacific Rim would be served primarily from LAX. BNA and ORD would be the main domestic hubs.
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:22 pm

Here is mine:

Type: Scheduled service and charter
Name: Cloud Nine
Fleet: four J31s two Metros
Base: Provo UT
Destinations: Twin Falls, Pocatello, Idaho Falls, Rexburg, Phoenix, North Las Vegas, Boise, Cheyene, Denver, Reno, Elko

Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
frontiers4ever
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:35 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:32 pm

Well my routes would be a little different. RDU would be my east coast Hub. Wichita, Kansas as central hub and SEA as West coast hub. SEA Because it is farther north than LAX and SFO making Asia that much closer. Wichita because it is centralized and RDU because it is in the middle of the east coast making central and south America close and Europe close.
Fleet would consist of
737-700, 800 at first with IFE and snacks.
After a couple of years get the 7E7 once the airline is established. Having both the Stretch and baseline and short range. Anything over 6 hours have meals on the flights. Also the key to my airlines success would not be great interiors of airplanes but rather a more luxurious terminal area such as couches. The part that most people hate is waiting for the plane why not make it better? Just a start.

-Frontiers4ever
Until you prove, your right, your wrong
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:33 pm

Hey MattD,

How did you generate that Route map?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Generating A Bogus Route Map

Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:43 pm

L-188

Simple:

1. Opened Excel program, inserted a map of the US into a cell.

2. Open "Paint" program.

3. Paste map into paint.

4. Using "brush", clicked on dots to represent cities.

5. Selected text in the empty field, typed in city code.

6. Cut text, pasted on map, then dragged to correct spot.

7. Selected lines, and drew "routes".

8. Saved as a jpeg file.

9. Uploaded to my personal web storage site.

10. Posted here.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:50 pm

OK, you hand drew it.

Thought maybe there was some super-duper route planning webside available.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
cjuniel
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:02 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:23 pm

I have watched the action on here for quite a while, and decided to join tonight to add my 2 cents to this post.

My airline would be based in Washington, DC. Partly because I live here, but also to play politics when looking to establish new air routes It would fly solely between major business centers throughout the US and the world using various combinations of the 747 and 777 fleet. Initial International city pairings would be as follows, with point to point domestic service available:

JFK to LHR, CDG, FRA, SFO, LAX, HKG, SIN, NRT, DXB, GVA, TLV
IAD to LHR, CDG, NRT, JNB/CPT, DEL, BRU, PEK, SEL, EZE, FRA
SFO to LHR, SIN, HKG, PEK, SYD, NRT, KIX, SEL
LAX to SYD, LHR, GRU, NRT (would serve as a connecting point between GRU and NRT)
ORD to LHR, HKG, NRT
MIA to LHR, GRU, GIG, EZE, CCS, SCL

 
tcfc424
Posts: 444
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:56 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:31 pm

Okay, I will play along.

My aircraft fleet would be B712 and B738, configured in a 2-3 configuration with 20" width and 34" pitch. One class, premium economy. Hot meals on flights >2 hours, sandwich on flights <2 hours. All f/a's would be EMT certified and non-union. Hubs would be JFK, FLL, AUS (cause I live here), DEN, LAX, PDX, and MDW. Service would be to most major cities with some smaller markets added in. Caribbean detinations (served only by props) and Mexico...CUN, AGU, PVR, etc. Fares would be slightly above slightly discounted coach (i.e. $200 above S or T fares)
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:19 pm

Primary hub city: MCI

Focus cities: PHL, LAS

For the first three years, operate from a largest available gate area at MCI (currently proposed 12 gate area in Terminal A), then use profits to help pay for minor airport rennovation that would connect that gate area to the current USAirways gate area and take that gate area over. After three more years, more rennovations to connect to gate area on the other side. This would give my airline 12+5+6 gates, plus 5 prop gates for Air Midwest, totalling 28 gates.

These rennovations would consist of adding approx ten feet (3m) to the airside exterior of the building around areas currently occupied by baggage carousels, ticket counters, and concessions. This extension has already been added to the terminal adjacent to most gate areas. This would simply be an extension of those areas.

PHL and LAS would require no rennovation, as these two airports are designed for connecting traffic.

Route Structure: MCI would operate coast-to-coast markets and have service throughout the Midwest. PHL would focus on Northeast-US connectors, with service to the Midwest and South that would be inconvenient via MCI. LAS would have service to/from Western cities that would be inconvenient to connect via MCI.

MCI to LGA, BOS, BDL, PHL, ATL, IAD, BWI, PIT, FLL, MCO, TPA, CLT, MEM, MDW, CMH, BUF, DTW, MSP, MKE, MSY, STL, BNA, DFW, IAH, AUS, DEN, LAX, SAN, PHX, LAS, SFO, FAT, SEA, PDX, SLC, SMF, ELP, ABQ, MYR

PHL to BOS, BDL, ATL, IAD, PIT, FLL, MCO, TPA, CLT, MEM, MDW, MKE, STL, BNA, MYR, CMH

LAS to LAX, SAN, PHX, SFO, SEA, PDX, DEN, SLC, ELP, DFW, FAT, SMF, IAH, AUS, MSY

Primary aircraft: MD-87 (numbering 17 after 2 years), starting to add 717-200/300 after approx. 18 months, completing change-over in approx 6 years (assuming 712/3 is still available at that time). By that time, it would have approx 75 aircraft.

Aircraft configuration:

MD-87: 120 coach and 16 biz class seats
717-200: 105 coach and 12 biz class seats
717-300: 120 coach and 12 biz class seats

Service would include a snack tray for coach and a cold meal for domestic biz class, or a hot meal for international flights over 4 hours in length.

At the end of the first 8 years, the company would expand to international travel via PHL and MCI. PHL would have service using 767-300ER to LGW, ORY, DUB, GIG, MEX, CUN, and have service using 717-200/300 to YYZ, YUL, YOW, FPO (Freeport, Bahamas), NAS (Nassau, Bahamas), KIN (range?)

MCI would add service with 767-300ER to GIG, LGW, and 717-300HGW service to MEX (range?), YYZ, YUL, YOW, YVR, YYJ, YWG, CUN (range?), MZT (Mazatlan, Mex), MTY

The international expansion would take approx. 8 years, during which time approx. 10-15 more domestic destinations would be added, including but not limited to ORD, IND, RNO, TUS, BMH (Birmingham, AL), ONT, RDU, OAK, BOI, and PHF (Newport News, VA).

At the end of the second 8 year period, I would expect to have 115-140 717-200 and -300s and 10-15 767-300ERs (if the 7E7 is what is promised, change to 7E7).

If the 717 is cancelled, then switch to 736 and 73Gs.

Total route system at the end of 16 years: 50-65 domestic and 15-20 int'l destinations, plus regional partners (Air Midwest @ MCI, etc).

Sorry if I wrote in the wrong airport code for the city I'm speaking of, especially for int'l destinations. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes between the international airport and one that isn't set up for it.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
DLKAPA
Topic Author
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:04 pm

Capitalize from every hub and focus city on the Canada market. Fly at first 2 flights, then expanding as needed from YUL, YYZ, YOW, YVR, and YWG.

Cash in on Canada

DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
kbuf737
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:43 pm

Hmm....after some pondering not to mention a multi-billion dollar bankroll
A SYSTEM OF SUPER AIRPORTS
3 of them:
One outside of Reno, One outside of Kansas City, KS and One outside of the Piedmont Tri-Cities region. Each is a mega-airport comparable in size to ATL. 2 Midfield Terminals running the length of the central layout. Planes from the north will go to the northern-western (depending on runway layouts) midfield terminal and Planes from the south will go to the southern-eastern terminal. The center of the terminals will be all inter-hub and international flights equipped with customs offices. Domestic flights will flank the international flights on the ends of the terminal. rail systems will run parallel to the terminal layouts with stops every 10 gates, assuming 60-70 gates/terminal. Giant skybridges will connect the two terminals with people movers at the same points so that north-south connections will flow smoothly. Bi-level roadways will run through arrivals and departures with a central rail system in the middle to transport cars from the parking levels. The route system will be north-south oriented in Reno and Greensboro and East west Oriented at Kansas City. no major or secondary cities will be forced to deal with more than one connection. The largest o&d markets will have inter-market flights allowing for non stop service in a well structured point to point layout, however the three supers will be the main focal airports. Fares will be structured to match similar routes. There will be no complexities in the structure. Keeping it simple will be the airlines model.
Fleet will consist of airliners based on market size and need.
CAT 1a. DeHavilland Dash-8s 40
CAT 1b. Canadair RJ 200s and 700s 130
CAT 2a. 712's 40
CAT 2b. 73G's (-700 thru -900) 280
CAT 3a. 762ER's (domestic 2 class config) 15
CAT 3b. 763ER's (domestic 2 class config) 25
CAT 3c. 763ER's (international 3 class config) 25
CAT 4a. 772ER's (domestic 2 class config) 15
CAT 4b. 773ER's (international 3 class config) 25

Fleet Total 585


The tower? Rapunzel!!!!!!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:57 pm

I would the hell stay away from pax business, too much competition and psychology involved.
I would try to find a parcel company like UPS or Fedex, get a contract or at least a letter of intent with them for a certain out of mainstream destination,with this get some financers, go limited, pick a cargo plane appropiate to the load expected, buy an AOC, get insurance, hire minimum staff (7 crews per airplane, a dispatcher and loadmaster, some mechanics, a secretary /bookkeeper to do the finances and man the home office). I would take over VP maintenance, one captain would become VP operations to satisfy the authorities, and for the first few years expect everybody to work their butts off, including myself, and to do jobs out of profession if necessary ( pilots helping mechanics on checks, mechanics cleaning facilities). Necessary equipment would be tools, some maintenance vans, a store for spares at the home base, no hangar at the moment. I would make the starting staff partners or stake holders in the company, so that they´ll have a profit if everything works out. Prove to the customer that you are a dependable carrier, and if they are happy with you and offer you new destinations, expand SLOWLY. But if you can, try to make additional wet lease contracts to other customers as well.
Pax service would only come MUCH later when the airline got the cargo leg firmly on the ground.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
expressjetphx
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:33 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:08 pm

First:
Aircraft would be 738, 752, 772, and A320 Family. Regionals would fly Bae-146, DHC Dash-8, and Embraer Brazilia

Why have new 73Xs and A32Xs in the same fleet? I know many airlines do this, but most are retiring one of the types, and replacing them with the other (i.e. HP is replacing the 737 with the A319/320, but operate both at the same time). Same goes for the Dash-8 and Brasilia, they are competitors in the same 30-37 seat market.

Continuing:
My Airline-
Arizona Airways based at PHX
Plan: First, start service from PHX to YUM, TUS, FLG, and IFP with 2-3 J31s picked up from the desert. Within 1 year, replace with 3-4 Beech 1900Ds and increase frequencies. Within 6 months, add 2 Beech 1900Ds along with routes to IGM, PAN, HHI, PGA, FHU, and SOW. In the following year, add 3 EMB-120 Brasilias, and service to SAN, PSP, LAS, ABQ, BUR, and RNO, and replace the B1900Ds on the PHX-TUS and PHX-YUM routes. One year later, add 3 more EMB-120 Brasilias, and service to DEN, COS, EGE, SLC, FAT, EKO, and SAT, IAH, DFW, AUS, and LBB all via ELP. Within the next 2 years, slowly add 5 CRJ-200, with service to SEA, SFO, BOI, HMO, GYM, ONT, DSM, STL, OMA, DRO, replace the EMB-120 on PHX-TUS, PHX-LAX, PHX-SAN, PHX-LAS, PHX-RNO, and start nonstop service to SAT, IAH, DFW, AUS, LBB, and ELP (eliminate ELP stop). With the addition of 3 more CRJ-200s over the following year, service would be added to YVR, YEG, YYC, GDL, MEX, MTY, SJC, ACA, PDX, GEG, and STL. Five years after the introduction, some CRJ-200s could be shifted into high-yielding Brasilia routes, or add frequencies to other high yielding CRJ routes, and new CRJ-700s or -900s could be introduced to replace those -200s. After another 5 years, 737-700s with blended winglets could be added for long-haul services to JFK, MIA, ATL, ANC, and BOS, and Caribbean destinations like SJU, MBJ, PVR, NAS, AUA, and CUR, Central American destinations like GUA, TGU, and SJO.

Arizona Airways would focus on modern, clean, professional customer service, focusing on both the business and tourist passenger. Seats will have a 32-33in seat pitch, and will be leather. On CRJ services, there will be a hot/cold meal service, and on the EMB-120, there is a quick drink and snack service. There would be PTVs in all seats, and on flights over 1/2 hr, passengers may choose to watch from a bank of popular tv shows, instead of movies. On flights over 2 hrs, a bank of movies would be available, as well as tv shows. Each seat would be equipped with a leg rest, unheard of in US domestic air travel. Long-haul 737 services would be equipped with a Premium Business Class, with a 54in seat pitch, and a 24in seat width, with a 150 degree recline.

At first, Arizona Airways could rennovate the C Gates in PHX's Terminal two. United could move down one gate, and USAirways could utilize the overflow gate full time. the C Gates could currently fit 3-4 B1900Ds (with minor rennovations), but with an expansion, 5 Gates could become available. There could be an expansion in the ticket counter and baggage claim area toward the outdoor gate (Arizona Express/Great Lakes), to accomodate the new ticket counters.

Any thoughts on the new airline?
 
expressjetphx
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:33 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:38 pm

I've got another one:
Eastwind Airlines Mk II
Serves TPA, FLL, PBI, ROA, PSM, DET, BLV, GSO and ATL from TTN, and TPA, FLL, PBI, PSM, DET, BLV, ATL, ISP, and TTN from GSO. Later, add TTN-LAX, PHX, SFO, MDW, ANC via SEA, and GSO-LAX, PHX, SFO, MDW. All flights using the 737-700. Flights are all $99 each way, with leather seats, and a focus on the bargain-friendly business traveler. In the mornings, Eastwind would serve Starbucks Coffee, in a contract deal, and in the afternoon, the Starbucks Frappucino. A light snack of bagels or croissants would also be served. The meal service would be limited to cut costs. Check in would be at Easy Check-In kiosks, and passengers would proceed to another counter to check bags. At small airports like TTN, where there is limited to no airline service, jetways would not be used, another cost-cutting maneuver. The airline would havea major focus on business-frendlieness, with features like QuickPurchase, where the reservations system saves the information of the travelers, and with the click of a few buttons, the ticket will have been purchased.
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:47 am

I would the hell stay away from pax business, too much competition and psychology involved.

And there isn't psychology involved in getting people to choose UPS over FedEx or vice-versa?

Still, you're right, freight is a lot more profitable, and the passengers never complain!

Capitalize from every hub and focus city on the Canada market. Fly at first 2 flights, then expanding as needed from YUL, YYZ, YOW, YVR, and YWG.

Cash in on Canada


Actually, I'm sure I'd have flights LAS-Canada after awhile. I just don't know when it would be appropriate (that's where my soon-to-come BBA in Marketing and later my MBA will come in handy).
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:22 am

Can't see why you would take the 738 AND the A320. That's not very cost efficient. A whole separate set of maintenance parts and proceedures for what amounts to the same class of aircraft.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
NJT916
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 6:26 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:49 am


Best Planes + Best Routes + Cheapest Fares does not equal the "Best Airline."

In my opinion, you need to start out with a great staff. I think Southwest does a great job with its hiring process, and would encourage more airlines to follow in this trend. But, that's just the Hotel Manager coming out in me.

Just my .02

Happy Holidays.

Nick
 
DLKAPA
Topic Author
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:06 am

for F/A's we could get playboy involved Big grin

ok, eliminate the A320 family, instead use 738 for low density long-haul, and (going out on a wing here), service smaller airports with daily 732, such as GUC, and fly 752 daily, no not seasonal, but daily into airports EGE, because Vail is also a summer destination.

772 would go to the other hubs and international from COS, being that COS is centrally located in the U.S., and does sees alot less service than it could handle.

DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
qantas747
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:51 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:31 pm

I have a theory of thinking outside the square. Everybody here is talking about operating out of the US. Well if you ask me (might only be cause I'm Australian) But the US market seems to be really crowded. Maybe US-Canada routes, but not much else... next you think Europe? But no, that is flooded with airlines of all types. Then I come to think about South America, hey that seems like a good continent, with lots of people and not alot of airlines flying everywhere, but not a heap of foreseeable growth. Then I come and think about my hom,eland area, the Asia/Pacific region. Sure, the market is starting to become flooded with carriers,. and alot are really good quality, but what about China???? There are not many airlines servicing there, inside and out, and neither of the majors have a really big route structure. CX, operates out of HKG, but only now has got acess to Mainland china. So my thinking is an Intra Asia, 2 class airline, with cost-effective frills, and a significant route structure(eventually) But capitalising on making a name for the company, just before China goes through a big growth period (which is suggested to happen, but may not). But think, a population of nearly 1 billion, not many airlines, how much potential has that got. Fly modern Aircraft, after carefully selecting fleet types, stick to only a couple of fleet type. Then maybe branch into Low-cost domestically if the need arises. I think that starting ANOTHER major airline in the US, would have to be low- cost with alot of limits, and not a heap of potential.

After giving the Chinese a really high-quality, non-expensive airline, you could expand the route network, to get European flights, flights around the pacific and such. I believe that there is a hell of alot of unfulfilled potential in the Aisa/Pacific region, and I think it needs to be addressed. As for Australian domestic, no chance trying that. Qf is an exceptional carrier and jetstar will have the safety aspectsd and stiull high-quality of service. Not much more room in Oz/NZ South Pacific, unless you want to try out the regionals..

And people, think outside the square, a hell of alot of Aviation does exist outside of America!! Think outside the square!

High regards,
and a merry christmas,

QANTAS747
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:53 pm

Ellwood64151,

Cargo is more constant. E.G. after 9/11 the passenger traffic dropped BUT air cargo increased. People might be afraid to fly themselves, but they are not scared of sending their parcels.
Additionaly there is still the traditional air freight, bigger loads (cars, machinery, valuables).

I think concerning UPS, DHL, TNT or Fedex it matters most which company has the better distribution system. DHL got a strong base in Germany because they are part of Deutsche Post with the thousands of post offices around. They are mostly privatized. The monopoly of Deutsche Post concerning smaller letters has two reasons:
1) In turn they have to guarantee to operate a postal service with post offices not just in the profitable urban areas but also in remote rural places.

2) If the market would be completely opened state owned companies from neighbouring countries could move into the business in Germany, while at the same time closing their markets to Deutsche Post. There has to be common European solution first, giving everybody the same rights.

The reason why the government still has a minority stake in Deutsche Post is the pension problem. The post employees used to be civil servants who couldn´t get layed off. The government can´t legaly terminate their contracts unless they get caught stealing.
New employees since the privatisation have been hired as normal workers, but the government still has to care for the older employees hired under the old conditions ubtil they retire.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
westjet_8
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 11:38 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:04 pm

Wardair (MK 2)

My airline would attpemt to do the same as Wardair except in the modren would of the internet I think it would work.

717-200 service connecting Calgary/Vancover/Edmonton/Victoria/Kelowna in the west, Sasaktoon, Regina, Winngipeg, Calgary in centeral Canada, Tornonto, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City, London ONT, Then the far East of Halifax/St Johns/Bangor also closer transborder

717-300 (MD90 if not built) Flying the transcons and heavyer transborder

A330-200's Providing charters to Europe and Asia and some international routes such as YYC-LGW, YVR-LGW, YYZ-MAN, YYZ-LGW, YYZ-CDG, YEG-LGW, YYC-NRT, YVR-NRT, YVR-KIX

Service on 717's would be Air Tran style but with Song IFE

A330-200's would attept to be as Wardair as possible (steaks, real china) but would add Bussiness and Economy Plus

My Wardair would also have a detailed FF plan
Canadian. RIP 1999
 
Prinair
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 7:28 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:42 pm

Western Airlines (Purchase the name from DL)
Base- ONT (Ontario, California)
Fleet- 737.800 (Winglets)


Class of service- Y
Offering a single class of service with 33" legroom being the standard.
Hot meals on flights over 3 hours and cold snacks on shorter segments.
Inflight movies, music and short subject films to be viewed on drop down
LCD screens (individual seatback screens too maintenance intensive and add
too much weight to aircraft). Headsets for music and movies are complimentary.

Destinations served nonstop from ONT-
SEA PDX BOI GEG SMF SJC SFO OAK SAN PHX TUS ELP DEN SLC COS
MSP LAS RNO AUS DFW IAH SAT MCI STL ORD MKE ATL EWR DCA IAD
JFK BOS DTW CVG CLE MIA MCO TPA MSY BNA MEM ANC

International-
MEX CUN PVR SJD YVR YEG YYZ DL), Mexico">GDL CUH ZIH

CRS- Amadeus
Agencies would be paid 3% on every ticket sold thru them
with commision bonuses for exceeding established sales goals.
(Many people still use travel agents)

Web page- Efficient and fast booking capabilities to be included.
Low fare search options as well as check in capabilities.
In-house tours and vacations package service to be offered for leisure travelers. Also, kiosk check in capabilities a major airports.

Frequent Flyer Program- Western's Mile Collector
Details to be released.

Maintenance Bases- ONT
ELP

Reservations call centers- ONT
ELP

(ELP is chosen because the city/state offer many incentives for new business to open there...excellent airport facilities with plenty of space to build).

** There will be an internal auditing department created that will constantly
audit all details of the operation to maximize use of supplies and supplier
contracts. It will make sure that the airline gets the best service and
supplies from contractors (such as catering) at the best possible rate.
This dept will work closely with the contracts dept when negotiating
with any outside vendor to ensure the best rate. Also, it will monitor
the use of company resources to maximize efficiency and eliminate
wasteful use of company resources therefore keeping costs low.



PRINAIR : Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:10 am

This was me for the longest time ... then I bought Airline 5. It's great!!!! You can do whatever you want and see if it will work.


-S.R.
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:19 pm

NJT916:

You're absolutely right. You can have the best planes and the best food and all that crap, but if the service sucks, the airline will fail.

RamerinianAir:

Remember, it's a simulation (albeit a very good one), but it's not the real thing. Airline 5 may be the most advanced airline sim out there, but nothing can ever replace actually doing it.

I run a pretty good railroad in RRTycoonII, but I know I don't know enough about railroads to do it in real life (yet).
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:34 pm

"Airline 5 may be the most advanced airline sim out there,"

So far...  Big grin
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:53 pm

I haven't read in too much detail (I'll go back), but someone could very well take some good inspiration and actually start an airline based on all this!!!
Bonjour Chef!
 
FLTGUY
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:54 am

Hey guys let trying keeping out of the major league airlines and start off with 738's, and go from there all this dash this, md that, airbus this, puts overhead far to high, one plane line can takeout a national carrier. Pilots are all trained on the same aircraft, lets not duplicate the rest of the struggling airlines, Westjet and Southwest are all making profits, think smart, think small.

Way to go Westjet!! Canada's new national carrier

FLTGUY
 
APAOps5
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:37 pm

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:04 am

FLTGUY, right on! It does seem foolish to make an airline out of "what is your favorite airplane" opposed to flying what the demand can support. I did not know WEstjet became Canada's new National carrier, that is pretty cool. David Neeleman I believe was one of the founding fathers of Westjet, now he is leading B6.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:38 am

You have hit on the reason that I refuse to get involved in this thread. So far, it is mostly about what "sounds cool" and what would be "really neat" rather than what would work on paper.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
Goose
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:40 am

RE: Let's Build An Airline

Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:51 am

FLTGUY, right on! It does seem foolish to make an airline out of "what is your favorite airplane" opposed to flying what the demand can support. I did not know WEstjet became Canada's new National carrier, that is pretty cool. David Neeleman I believe was one of the founding fathers of Westjet, now he is leading B6.

Neeleman was one of the founding influences on WestJet, though I'm unsure as to whether he actually held a position on the board of directors, or simply acted as a consultant......

And calling WestJet Canada's new National or Flag Carrier is a bit of a stretch. Air Canada is widely accepted as the country's flag carrier, and as much success as WestJet has enjoyed, they still do not serve nearly as many centres in Canada as Air Canada does.

They are not nearly as large (WestJet has 44 or 45 aircraft now - Air Canada, all told, has around 300). WestJet is also a purely-domestic sched carrier, aside from their charter operations..... Air Canada, of course, offers scheduled service to points all over the world.
"Talk to me, Goose..."