SInGAPORE_AIR
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Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:44 pm

Airbus Industrie delivered it's 300th aircraft, beating Boeing's sales target of 280 and matching its own 300 target.

The goal was reached when on 19 December 2003, Airbus handed Singapore Airlines Limited - A Member of Star Alliance its first Airbus A340-500 A345LEADERSHIP - Making The World A Smaller Place.

"Airbus "may have more deliveries, but what does that mean?" asked Tom Brabant, a Boeing spokesman. "In an industry that has two large manufacturers, if you're looking at deliveries, some years Airbus may deliver more, some years Boeing may deliver more. What matters most is making airplanes that passengers prefer to fly on and providing value to our airline customers." "

More at the Seattle Times website
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
keesje
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:51 pm

First it was the orders, then it was actual deliveries that counted, now that´s all become un important. Its having satisfied customers...



"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
MD-11 forever
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:00 pm

... and satisfied customers will order your product, which again means more orders and subsequently more deliveries....

Cheers, Thomas
 
keesje
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:07 pm

I believe Fokker, Swissair and Legend customers where all very satisfied. That didn´t prevent them from going down.

Better a customer that is just satisfied enough to come back & a healthy margin then those 100% customer satisfaction spenders ...
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:30 pm

"satisfied customers will order your product, which again means more orders and subsequently more deliveries"

How ironic it was Singapore Airlines Limited that got the 300th plane. After all, we all do remember the A340-300X saga.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
tsentsan
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:16 pm

Interesting news ... thought the aircraft had over 100 defects that needed rectifying last week.

Hope the delivery flight of SQ788 would be earlier now.
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tavve
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:08 am

Just 100? I'm not in the aviation delivery industry but 100 isn't that much unless they serious ones.
GOT, that's where I live
 
9v-svc
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With

Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:20 am

Tsentsan : How do you know there are 100 defects ? Anything to back up your sentence ?
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
jopavon
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:18 am

Is it satisfied customers or better economic deals?, let's ask the low-cost carriers...
 
Leskova
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:00 am

Isn't it cute how Boeing has adjusted to the situation? In the last years, it was always "So? Airbus has had more orders than us, but what does that mean? Relevant is who delivers more aircraft!"...

Good to see that Boeing can still adapt to changing situations...  Big grin
Smile - it confuses people!
 
trent900
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:08 am

All new aircraft have defects that need ironing out. No doubt Boeing have the same problems but they're not publicized as much.

Trent.
 
anxebla
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:10 am

Singapore_air:What do you want to say??? The A-343 isn't good plane for SQ?
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
ka
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:16 am

There was a documentary on German TV some time ago which even won a prize about the delivery of LH´s B744 D-ABVX. They had a number of major technical issues which had to be sorted out (like not preraked flight control wires). So I would say that technical problems occur at both companies.

KA.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:33 am

Singapore_air:What do you want to say??? The A-343 isn't good plane for SQ?

SQ "said" that, not him  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:24 am

Singapore_Air - must you insist in putting every conceivable marketing slogan in your post?

 Nuts

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
AvObserver
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:25 am

For once I must agree with Keesje and Leskova on the Boeing spin quoted in the article and I said it myself a long time ago: actual orders are indeed relevant to future deliveries, even though they can be deferred or cancelled. In a climate where Airbus is selling a lot more airplanes than Boeing, they're going to be delivering more airplanes from now on for years to come. Until Boeing can reverse that sales disparity, their deliveries will trail Airbus, perhaps by a large margin. So this time, the Boeing line is a hollow one, they can say that this year but what do they say next year or the year after as their delivery totals continue to shrink. Until they reverse their sales slide, they'll be eating crow on this on an annual basis. In my book, it would sound better if they just admitted they're now number 2 and like in the old Avis Car Rental commercials, they'll try harder. Best to just fess up and acknowledge they're now the underdog; if nothing else it might get them a few more supporters-some folks just love to root for the underdog.
 
Dionysus
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:09 am

Every time Airbus does or achieve something, the American rival always discredit them. It seems so difficult for some American companies admitting that they are behind. First it's deliveries matter now it's delivering what is important, bla bla bla. Boeing seems like the Big Three during the 80's, they loved bashing Japanese car companies and blamed them of receiving government subsidiaries. Before they know it, the Japanese are eating them alive...

Stop the pathetic arrorgance and get yourself together.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:21 am

if Boeing admitted that they were #2 it would get the employees to think "hey we are falling behind lets get off our asses and do something", which would eventually bring them back up to #1.... Boeing is just berily behind Airbus, so it wouldnt really take a hell of alot to catch up again, but theres a big diff between doing a little and not doing anything about it..


CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
AA737-823
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:54 am

Man, you guys all need a big tablespoon of shut-up.

Here's why, for those of you who will immediately ask whether I have a press release to verify my sentences (honestly, some of you would ask for proof that Embraer plans to make a 190, sheesh).

"Every time Airbus does or achieve something, the American rival always discredit them..."
What a ridiculous statement! Boeing is in the process of designing a plane that will reduce fuel consumption by as much as 20%!!! (Would you like a press release for that too? Look it up your own dang self!) THINK of the environmental benefit we will enjoy! The exhaust emissions are promised to be at all time record lows, as well. Think of the great news this is for the environment! And the interior, so revolutionary.
Yet, to put it as the poster on this forum did, "Airbus on 7E7 launch: 'No response is needed.'" Wow, environmental priorities are clearly not an issue for Airbus. Neither, apparently, are revolutionary designs, involving composites, and other high-tech advancements. Let's just stick with a big, old fashioned, super huge jumbo.

While I agree that the shifting of Boeing's focus is totally ridiculous, I refuse to allow you all to pounce on Boeing as an unloved underdog or something. Let's not forget that the 777 is the fastest-selling airliner of ALL TIME, making the A340 look like an inferior product.

They're both great manufacturers of airliners. CAN'T YOU PEOPLE just accept that? They're both FINE. Boeing will surely pull ahead in sales in the future. And then, after that, Airbus will regain the lead. Then, later down the road, Airbus will sell more airplanes again.

IT'S CALLED COMPETITION, though I suppose you in the hoity-toity EU (to which, alas, my favorite of all nations, Italia belongs) would not be familiar with competition, as most industries are heavily government controlled. NO ONE HERE would argue that Airbus has heavily been subsidized in the past. They're moving toward decent business practices, but books have been written on the secrecy of Airbus. When our government contributes to the aviation industry, at least it is through the purchase of our aviation products!

Seriously, folks. Airbus makes good planes.
Seriously, folks. Boeing makes good planes.

WHO CARES who sells more? Competition makes both strive to improve and produce better products. The A320 wouldn't exist without the prior existence of the 737. Similarly, I choose to believe, the DC-9 wouldn't exist without the prior existence of the Caravelle and also the BAC-111 in the market.

Jobs for everyone in all nations, and a Merry Christmas to all!
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:08 pm

Every time Airbus does or achieve something, the American rival always discredit them. It seems so difficult for some American companies admitting that they are behind. First it's deliveries matter now it's delivering what is important, bla bla bla. Boeing seems like the Big Three during the 80's, they loved bashing Japanese car companies and blamed them of receiving government subsidiaries. Before they know it, the Japanese are eating them alive...

Stop the pathetic arrorgance and get yourself together.
________________________________________________________________

Dio;
Both companies act the same way, just look at Airbus comments in regards to the 7E7, both companies take pot shots at each other all of the time.

In answer to Boeing's question, what is the big deal? Bragging rights!
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AvObserver
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:38 pm

Excellent post AA737-823 and I agree with all of your points except the one about the 777 vs. the A340; although the 777 still has more total sales, the A340, best represented by the -600 and -500, has handily outsold it recently. But the 777 and Boeing as a whole can come back if they start making the right moves, as it lately appears they are doing. I'm sorry if you find my 'underdog' description unfortunate but for the present, it's accurate. I was merely commenting on the PR trap Boeing has itself in now since it has long contended deliveries are more important than orders. Of course, both makers spew the same PR barbs at each other and Airbus's public dismissal of the 7E7 challenge to the A330-200 is just another example on the other foot. I won't address the subsidies issue here but Boeing helped get itself into its' current malaise with some myopic market assessment and other policies during the Condit era. It now must try to dig itself out of this hole and it has its' work cut out for it. But there's every reason to believe it can do it as long as it abandons its' recent habits. If it makes you feel better, I think the 7E7 will positively flatten the A332; no contest in that market segment. Merry Christmas to you (and everyone else), too.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:48 pm

Airbus has beaten Boeing. Airbus builds great airplanes but more importantly they make better deals on airplanes then Boeing.... That's why Airbus delivered more airplanes. At my airline our Airbus's have the highest dispatch reliability....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
sandiaman
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:42 pm

One well-known airline analyst suggested that aircraft "backlog" is a better measure of health because it reflects airline orders over a longer period as well as future deliveries (last I read, Airbus had a larger backlog).

Regardless, it's difficult to reduce the concept of "who's number one" to a single metric.

And what's it all worth?...you don't hear Toyota bragging about being number one. They dominate....quietly.

-M
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:07 pm

Its not worth anything after Boeing loses its #1 spot. Nothing wrong with #2 Airbus was there for a long time, now its Boeings turn at #2 .
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Sabena 690
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With SIA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:15 pm

Seriously, folks. Airbus makes good planes.
Seriously, folks. Boeing makes good planes.

WHO CARES who sells more? Competition makes both strive to improve and produce better products.


Couldn't have said it better...

Frederic
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Airbus Delivers 300th Plane, Beats Boeing With

Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:35 pm




Back to the original thread...


Personally, I think it will be interesting to see if the A345 can change the A340 fortunes with SQ.

Undoubtedly the A345 is an excellent liner and currently the best in the world in its class. However, the 772LR will soon be a reality and SQ has invested heavily in the triple-seven family. It will be hard for them not to buy the Boeing Global Ranger!

Economics suggest that an entire 777 family may be the smarter buy, regardless of whether the 772LR or the A345 is the better individual performer. After all, that's what AI banks on with their "families" of airliners.

But SQ are well know for dumping their entire previous fleets for new performers. Maybe it's time for the A345 and A346 given that SQ has a new flag-ship on the horizon - the A380!

Time will tell.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone, I'm off to the Marlborough Sounds on Boxing Day. Last post for the year.

Regards
MH


come visit the south pacific