deltaffindfw
Posts: 1388
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:09 pm

 
727LOVER
Posts: 6683
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:12 pm

I've never fully understood this story. Why does ACA want to NOT be affiliated w/ UAL anymore?  Confused
Love Trumps Hate
 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:13 pm

probably just as well - let ACA move forward with their launch of Independence Air and allow UA to continue working with Mesa to backfill the UX operation out of IAD.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:14 pm

Well, looks like Independence Air is going to happen. Coming from someone who lives in a potential Independence Air destination, here's hoping they provide a quality LCC service that will stick around and catch on here in the Southeast and serve some of the markets AirTran has ignored.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Danny
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Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:15 pm

They will buy ACA cheaper after it goes bankrupt Big grin
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:26 pm

`Love the smell of napalm in the morning....'
There is some talk that ACA may now start Indy Air -and- even possibly still do some UAex service after renegotiaiton.. Best of both worlds for them.

[Edited 2003-12-23 15:27:46]
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
AirDude66
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:48 pm

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:33 pm

looks like UA was behind the takeover after all.

 
potomac
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:34 pm

i heard heard something similar, voodoo, a while back, about Indy doing its own thing while also still serving as a UX carrier. frankly, i think it would be better for both parties to have a clean break. UA doesnt need to add any more confusion to its mainline, TED, intl, and UX product offerings, and Indy needs market distinction to hit the ground running.
 
N6376M
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:37 pm

I've never fully understood this story. Why does ACA want to NOT be affiliated w/ UAL anymore?

My understanding is that UAL tried to cram through some significant changes to the contract they had with ACA using option that the bankrupcy proceeding gave them to get out of existing contractual obligations. ACA said that the changes proposed by UAL were unacceptable and that they would be willing to just terminate the agreement if UAL chose to exercise its rights.

-76M
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:37 pm

it also means UA will probably lose a big chunk of their total Express fleet. While IAD may be propped up by bringing in other carriers, those planes are coming out of UA's other hubs or from RJ growth that UA desperately needed to become RJ competitive w/ AA, CO, and DL.

It does smell very much of UA's participation in Mesa's takeover attempt. I don't think ACA will just roll over and forgive UA w/o costs of some kind.
 
potomac
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:06 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:49 pm

dont forget that UA was paying a fixed fee to ACA for each flight it operated, regardless of passenger load and ontime performance. in many ways it was not a profitable arrangement for UA.

UA certainly won't be able to completely and immediately fill the void of service and aircraft left when ACA breaks away. logically the new UX will start out with replacement service in markets driven by demand and profitability, though i'd imagine that they may not be able to - and probably will even choose not to - restore the same service.

a successful UX operation at IAD isn't necessarily defined as being the same operation that ACA ran. a sort of clean slate to determine service may be a good thing.
 
worldtraveler
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:59 pm

agree, Potomac. its the backfill issue that everyone seems to miss. there are also very few RJ's at LAX or SFO. AA has a few but isn't putting anymore there because they are needed elsewhere. DL and CO have plenty they could use but aren't. AS has done the best job of developing new routes from California hubs w/ RJ's; if anyone else decided to join them, UA would be in a world of hurt. Meanwhile, AA and DL are adding RJ's to every viable point in the midwest.
 
bistro1200
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:13 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:27 am

The type of contract UA was seeking with ACA is the same "cookie-cutter" type arrangement that UA has with Skywest, Mesa, and Air Wisconsin. Why ACA balked at the same style of contract that the other three accepted is interesting, it is a large gamble on their part and CRJs don't have the low costs that 737s + A320s do.

I don't think that UA was "behind" the Mesa bid, if they were it would be public info by now since the bankruptcy proceedings pretty much make every action subject to court approval, especially one of this size. It is convienient, sure, for them but I don't think UA is swimming in resources to back a takeover bid. The non-binding MOU was in place to show that UA would utilize them if Mesa were able to get ACA. This would be the basis for private finance companies to underwrite financing to buy ACA by Mesa.

As a Mesa shareholder, I am glad to see the stock up about 4% today on the news!
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:46 am

Very few RJs at LAX or SFO?

There is a little birdie by the name of SkyWest who does a significant amount of RJ flying on the west coast...

There are 90 CRJ takeoffs and landings every day at SFO.

There are more than that at LAX.
no wire hangers!
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
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RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:06 am

UA would have done better either way. With ACA as a UAX carrier under new management that could improve its performance under a contract that pays them for performance. Or as an independent ACA is whistling past the graveyard not acknowleging that the only reputation they have in the frequent flyer world is crummy, and they are going to compete with UA and Wn in the WAS area. They won't last long. They will eventually be sold to someone.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:21 am

Flagship,
Have a look at CO and DL's hubs and you'll see how RJ's can be used. The few RJ's which UA has deployed at SFO/LAX are turboprop or mainline replacements. UA has done very little network growth using RJ's and they still have a large turboprop operation in California. Contrast that w/ DL and CO who have very few turboprops left and have used RJ's to open new, long routes which passengers use because they are nonstop.
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:28 am

SFO/LAX are in the same position as MIA... settled on the extreme edge of the country, and only suitable for international and North-South connections.

There's not a lot of new RJ spoke routes that can be done (althought a few are in the pipeline, like SFO-COS)... With the exception of international connections, there is not a lot of connectivity out of LAX and SFO that can't be done via DEN. There simply isn't that much traffic between Durango, CO and Japan, for instance.

You can never expect SFO or LAX to have the amount of RJ service that mid-continental hubs have.

RJs are also impractical on the short, super frequent intra-california sectors where most UAX EMB-120s reside.
no wire hangers!
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:29 am

BTW, I know full well about the whoritization of RJs by DL and CO... I'm a CO Gold and detest connecting through Houston...

One thing that is a plus about LAX and SFO, they have much more RJ service relative to MIA.
no wire hangers!
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3894
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:46 am

Praise the Lord! ACA should be allowed to try its bold experiment, and they were right to raise antitrust concerns in their lawsuit against Mesa. Today's Rochester Democrat and Chronicle had an editorial praising Sen. Schumer and Rep. Walsh for calling for an antitrust investigation into Mesa's bid. UA and its Star partner US Airways have a big vested interest in stopping Indy Air. Rochester and many other East Coast markets could benefit greatly if Independence Air succeeds.

Now we'll see whether Skeen & Co. can produce. The operational and ground issues UAPHLCS and others have mentioned are not insubstantial. The Rochester airport confirmed in the paper today that ACA has approached them about getting their own gate space independent of UA. So it sounds like ACA is laying groundwork for their own operation. But they've got lots of work to do before late spring.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
worldtraveler
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:48 am

Flag,
your logic would say EWR shouldn't have much RJ svc but it does, even considering the denser population on the e. coast. DL uses RJ's on from LGA, JFK, and BOS for both connecting and point to point missions. Also, DL and CO have many RJ routes from CVG and CLE that are shorter than some of the United Express EMB California routes.
You are right about MIA - again AA hasn't been forced to put RJ's there but will (and are) as their facility and fleet allow.
notice that turboprops are more accepted in pleasant weather operations. RJ's are preferred when getting out of dodge and above the weather is a priority.
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: Mesa Cancels Bid For ACA

Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:41 am

Or as an independent ACA is whistling past the graveyard not acknowleging that the only reputation they have in the frequent flyer world is crummy, and they are going to compete with UA and Wn in the WAS area. They won't last long.

Does this mean you've recently sold your ACA shares? Pretty harsh words for someone who still sees a potential financial benefit from the company..
Ask why..