akjetBlue
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LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:22 am

Anyone know if LGA ever had a 747 or C5?
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futterman
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:28 am

LGA does get heavies, but the only jet with two/three engines that comes around here (or HAS EVER come around here) is the BAe Avro. haha a 747...

i have prophesized the low level flyby of the AN225 or a 747 over runway 22, though  Big grin.
What the FUTT?
 
akjetBlue
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:30 am

Other than the Jetstar and ARJ, I cant think of any other 4 engine a/c that have ever ops into LGA. Maybe the 7 and 8 in the day?
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iflyatldl
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:32 am

Don't quote me on this, but they had this topic on a month or so and I think I remember reading someone had seen it once. I think the thread is "Could a 747 land at LGA?"  Smile
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EA CO AS
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:32 am

The running joke is that any 747 landing at LGA will have to be turned into a diner.  Big thumbs up
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iflyatldl
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:35 am

I've heard that too! Big grin
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akjetBlue
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:37 am

Thanks atldl...I am still new to this, so I didnt look before I asked.  Sad
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mirrodie
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:38 am

They have had a few 747's diverted from JFK.

THis usually happens when I am flying Canarsie approach to 13R and have to go around.

































I am A senior Capt on Qantas Virtual Airlines. And it happens all the time when I fly  Wink/being sarcastic


SEriously though, I am not sure. IM me and I can tell you where to go for perhaps more information.
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:56 am

hey

the biggest scheduled planes that LGA gets is a Delta 767-400. I no that United used to opperate there DC-10s from LGA to O'Hare, My dad flew out of LGA to O'Hare on a DC-10. Actully the biggest planes that ever opperated LGA was the CLIPPER!!
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rjpieces
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RE: ISP WN's New Terminal In Islip, NY

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:25 am

Alitalia MD-11 is right....the biggest LGA gets now is Delta 767-400s and ATAs 757-300s......In the past there have been DC-10s and L-1011s.
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USAFHummer
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:31 am

I recall seeing a photo of a PIA 747 at LGA because of a diversion recently (as in the past 6 months or so)

Greg
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STT757
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:37 am

I think LGA only got the DC-10 10 series, not the 30 series. I think the 30 series was too heavy, not sure though.

A 747 could theoretically (sp?) land and take off on LGA's 7,000 ft runways, 747s often land on EWR's runway 11/29 on windy days. EWR's runway 11/29 is shorter than LGA's at 6,800 ft x 150ft, I've seen 747s land there within the last year.

11/29 was a favorite of the old PeoplExpress because it's right in front of where the old North Terminal used to sit, PE flew 747s from 11/29 all the time.

The only thing preventing 747s from using LGA are the runway ends which are actually piers (can't take the weight), and the gate area which was/ is too small for even a 767 let only a 747.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jetstar
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:42 am

I doubt that any 747 has ever landed at LGA, even as a diversion.

Airports in close proximity to LGA capable of handling 747's besides JFK are Newark, Stuart Intl. and Suffolk Airport.

The last 2000 or so feet of runways 31 and 4 are built out on concrete piers into Flushing Bay and I don't think they can handle the weight of a 747.

The only way a 747 would land at LGA would be in a dire emergency where they had to get on the ground as soon as possible.
 
iflyatldl
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:24 am

Akjetblue:
Not to worry...My search does'nt work at times, so no biggie! It happens ! I've done a couple of repeats myself! Welcome to airliners.net!  Big thumbs up
Happy Holidays!
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
cicadajet
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:37 am

Singapore Air, many many 747s fly to EWR.

USHummer..the PIA shot at LGA was a fake..never happened.

There is a credible person who remembers his dad telling him that Pan Am brought a 747 to LGA during the initial "tour" back in '70 or whenever it was.

I doubt this ever happened, and no one seems able to confirm it, but if it ever happened at all, that would have been it.

Tom
 
cicadajet
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:38 am

Also, to the best of my knowledge, no 707s or DC-8s or Convair jets ever landed at LGA either; though I would love to find out otherwise and stand corrected on that.
 
iflyatldl
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:44 am

Hey Akjetblue:
Your thread is not a total repeat! You also asked about the C5...No-one to my knowledge asked that before!  Smile
Happy Holidays dude!
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LGA777
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:08 am

As a long time employee at LGA (Since 1985) I can verify no 747 has ever
landed at LGA, nor 777, 330/340. There used to be lots of DC-10's, L-1011's,
A-300's an once and hopefully again an Airbus Beluga !



LGA777
 
iflyatldl
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:45 am

I do remember as a kid when RFK was assasinated, they brought back one of the Air Force One series-a 707 to LGA for his funeral- I was only ten at the time, but I remember watching the funeral with my dad on TV and they brought him back to LGA for the trian ride to Massachusetts and my dad was amazed thet they went into LGA with a 707. And how my dad knew LGA! But, that was at least thirty-five years ago, so.......I've also heard that when Idlewild opened, they could divert to LGA with the jets, depending on certain things: weight, etc. They just couldn't take-off with a full payload. The terminal at LGA just wasn't set up for the jets ! This was right after the jets were introduced. I always thought my dad was wrong about that(the RFK thing) but, if so, one of the few times if is indeed the case.  Smile
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:08 pm

Didn't the Airbus A300 Super Guppy fly there within the past year or so bringing in a rudder for a crippled A320?
 
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STT757
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:11 pm

"Singapore Air, many many 747s fly to EWR. "

Yeah EWR gets plenty of 747s, EWR has three runways..

11,000 ft

9,900 ft

6,800 ft

All capable of handling 747s no problem, the 6,800 ft runway even handles 747s as mentioned.

LGA is unique because the ends of the runways are built on piers which precludes "heavy" aircraft like the 777 or 747, also the gates and concourses are not capable of handling such large aircraft.
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Big777jet
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:20 pm

Cicadajet mentioned "There is a credible person who remembers his dad telling him that Pan Am brought a 747 to LGA during the initial "tour" back in '70 or whenever it was."

Wow, I was remembered when I was young kid first time to LGA between 1973 to 1974. I saw something Pan Am 747SP at LGA. I did not know anything about LGA has short runways. I was trying to flash back my mind in the past to picture of Pan Am 747SP at LGA. Maybe I was wrong. But I'm sure I saw it. Oh Man! Has anyone heard or seen Pan Am have landed at LGA in 1970's?

Big777jet

 
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STT757
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:32 pm

Well if a C-130 could land on an aircraft carrier (Enterprise?) then it's possible a 747 could land at LGA.
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bigphilnyc
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:48 pm

First, I'm excited that someone remembered my joke thread about the PIA 747 diversion.

Here is the picture I made of it:



Then MikePhotos (Mike McLaughlin) claimed his shot from inside the terminal of this:



As for the PanAm 747, I've heard this rumor too, and it is a popular one. I happened to sit down and interview LGA Gneral Manager Warren Kroeppel recently for a magazine article and asked him about it.

He said he never heard such a thing, and that it is highly doubtful.

I'll stand by him and say no, a 747 probably has never come into LGA.

The Delta 767-400 is the largest plane to every operate LGA.

The piers of the LGA runways create several problems, regardless of runway length. So much to the point that the A300 was forbidden to fly into LGA after a while becuase the narrow wheel base on the plane put so much concetrated pressure on the runways.

Yes, the Airbus Beluga did fly into LGA once as well, as confirmed by the LGA GM during the interview also.

If you have other questions, maybe I can help some.

Phil Derner Jr.
 
timz
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 707?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:45 am

Yeah, it would be nice to know what airliners were allowed into LGA over the years. In the 1950s there were no 1049s or DC-7-- but in the 60s EA/TW did bring 1049C/Gs in (but no scheduled DC-7s AFAIK). DC-10s are allowed there now, so is there any rule prohibiting Travolta landing there in his 707?

707s were scheduled into MKC's 7000-ft runway, even JT3C-powered 707-120s. But never into LGA AFAIK.
 
futterman
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:56 am

As stated before, in the very early years of LGA, the Clippers 'O the Sea were everywhere. La Guardia was without the piers at the time, and had very little ground traffic. Hence, the first terminal at LGA was the MAT--Marine Air Terminal. The name still stands today, but now it serves the Delta Shuttle line of non-aquatic 737s (as opposed to the aquatic 737s? lol)

These Clippers actually flew trans Atlantic, so in the early years, LGA was really an internation airport.
What the FUTT?
 
timz
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:00 am

It wasn't only the B314s that flew transatlantic out of LGA. BOAC-PAA-TWA were all there until 1949 or so. BOAC and PAA B377s had to use Idlewild, but maybe TWA didn't move to IDL right away. Most (maybe all) their domestic flights came into LGA in 1950-51, so they'd have liked to keep their Europe flights there too.

The MAT didn't open before LGA's land terminal. did it?
 
csavel
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:43 am

According to the Convair 880 restoration site, the 880 they are restoring "in 1962 it set another record, which it still holds today, from LaGuardia Airport in New York City to Ft. Lauderdale, Florida in 1 hour and 43 minutes gate-to-gate."

SO I guess at least one four holer (other than the BEA/Avro) visited LGA, although I am still wondering if this is true. Since I took it off of an enthusiast WS, the statement has more cred.

http://www.convair880.com/880_convair880_history.htm
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cicadajet
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:46 am

Wow.. thats interesting about the Convair jet at LGA.. I wouldn't doubt it, its just that it appeared there is little documentation of them ever having done so. So then, we have unconfirmed report of Convair 880, and the Air Force 707, and still the Pan Am 747 rumor.

As to the Connies, they were there at LGA in the 50s. The DC-7 was surely rare at LGA, but it was there... check out this vintage shot from Art Brett"


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Art Brett



Those two sat there for quite a while in the early 70s, I can remember seeing them from the observation deck.

Now here's a wild rumor from a seasoned NYC spotter who ought to know..

That an IL-62 was at LGA in 2001 or 2002. Thats so incredible for several obvious reasons..if not impossible. I would've thought a Tu-154 perhaps..but even that would be extraordinary.

Great thing about airports though..you have runways..and where you have runways many unusual visiters are "possible".

Other unusual visiters in relatively recent years..the Swissair DC-4 on the promotional tour, and an Egyptair 767 running out of fuel.

Tom
 
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RayChuang
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:42 am

You can forget about flying the 747 in and out of LGA for two reasons:

1. The runways are too short for safe 747 takeoffs and landings.

2. The concrete piers that hold up the runway extensions out into the water are not strong enough to handle the weight of the 747.

Indeed, if people remember the original 1965 AA request for a medium-range widebody airliner, the plane had to be relatively small so it could operate out of LGA's relatively short runways. That original AA specification was finally fulfilled by the Boeing 767-200 design of 1978.
 
jcxp15
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:45 am

RayChuang:

It's not the runways are too short (i.e. I think SXM's runway is shorter or the same size), it all about the weight. If there were no piers, and the runway was on land, a 747 would have no problem landing there.
Also, the gate areas can not handle 747's...
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:13 am

The GM of LGA said the IL62 rumor seemed false, although he wasnt too sure. Didnt make sense to him.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
AA717driver
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AA CFO Resignation...

Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:36 am

Yes, a 747 once landed on runway 4 at LGA. In fact, it's still there--AT THE BOTTOM OF FLUSHING BAY! Big grin I think one set of approach lights for 22 are mounted on the vertical stab... Big grin TC

P.S.--The runways are long enough to get in and out. If you can get a L10 in and out, you can do a 747. It's the pier issue.
FL450, M.85
 
timz
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RE: LGA First Terminal

Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:17 am

"Hence, the first terminal at LGA was the MAT--Marine Air Terminal."

Arend says the land terminal opened 12/39, the MAT 3/40.
 
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STT757
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:35 am

"The runways are too short for safe 747 takeoffs and landings"

As mentioned LGA's runways are 7,000ft x 150 ft which is plenty for 747s to safely operate to and from, 747s often operate from EWR's runway 11/29 which is shorter than LGA's at 6,800 ft x 150ft.

The pier issue and the confined gate area/ramp are the two key issues.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:10 am

When I was a kid, I often flew Eastern L-1011s or A300s from LGA, but I don't recall ever seeing a 747 there, and in fact you cannot find a pic of this in the somewhat comprehensive a.net database. I guess by default this means the largest aircraft ever to visit LGA was an L-1011 or DC-10...I believe the runways have not been extended since 1964, when the main terminal was built and several enhancements were made to the airport to accomodate 727s and the rush of visitors expected for the World's Fair that was held that year in Flushing Meadows Park.
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:04 am

The largest aircraft into LGA was/is the 767-400....which is bigger than the L-1011 and DC-10.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
cicadajet
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:19 am

Which begs the question.. does a half pax loaded, moderately fueled 767-400 outwiegh a near empty pax and low fuel 747 on LGAs tender & fragile pier? Does anyone know?

The story, again, which I do not take as gospel, was that PAN AM brought in a 747 on the initial tour. I lean towards this having never happened...

However, this has nothing to do with regular 747 operations, in and out of LGA. Its got nothing to do with remembering for those that weren't there at the time. I wasn't there, so I can't "remember" it either, (if it ever happened.)

I watched a VIP 707 at EWR about 10 years ago make like an ATR in the amount of runway it took.

Tom

 
cicadajet
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:27 am

RiverVisual, if we went by the Database, we'd have to assume the concorde never landed in New Jersey at EWR or at Bangor Maine... events that happened numerous times in recent years...

We're speculating about something that may have happened *once* 30 plus years ago.

Tom
 
bigphilnyc
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:30 am

I think another question would be is can a 747 land on runway 31 or 4 and stop before even getting near the pier? Isn't that LAHSO? How mcuh of the runway is pier, then subtract. Can a 747 do it?

Eh, I doubt it.
Phil Derner Jr.
 
timz
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:42 am

Runway 31 was 5900+ ft before the pier-- so theoretically possible for a 747.

Turns out TWA moved their transatlantic flights from LGA to IDL in 4/51.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:52 am

I guess it would depend on how heavy the aircraft is upon landing. A lightly loaded 74 could come to a stop before reaching the pier section of the runway. I've seen Air Force One land on our runway 1/19 and pull off the runway at the 2000ft. marker, meaning it came to a stop after using 5000ft.(or less) of runway. Talk about impressive!


Steve/New Orleans
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: LGA Ever Get A 747?

Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:21 pm

Muskegon Michigan had a UPS 747 for an airshow once. 6500ft... But a freighter is much more versatile than a regular 747.. There are no seats etc...


LGA has had 767-400's, L1011's, AA/UA DC10s.

I am honestly shocked that DL doesnt operate 777's into LGA.

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