F9Widebody
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AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:40 am

Just heard on TV that Reuters is reporting that AF canceled a flight to LAX because of security concerns, haven't been able to find it on the internet though. Anyone have other information?

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United777
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:42 am

It looks like they might be cancelling all flights from Frane to the US according to BBC News!

Farhan Ali
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:51 am

Actually, both AF 068 and AF070 CDG-LAX were cancelled today. AF068 was supposed to leave CDG at 1:25PM LT and AF070 at 7:00PM LT.
AF070 is the flight that continues from LAX to PPT
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:57 am

CDG-ATL 316 operated as usual, and 304 is scheduled to operate...the lone CDG-CVG was cancelled, as was both CDG-LAX
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United777
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:57 am

It's only AF flights to LAX. BBC has just changed it. Earlier they were saying all France-US flights were being cancelled.

Farhan Ali
Seattle, USA
 
F9Widebody
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:01 am

FoxNews is reporting that the flights were cancelled after Air France was contacted by the US embassy in Paris. They are saying two Air France flights to LAX, and an "Air Tahiti" flight (Perhaps AF Codeshare) flying to LAX and then PPT was also cancelled.

[Edited 2003-12-24 20:05:43]
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ssides
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:04 am

Does Air France operate CDG-CVG, or is that a DL codeshare?
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SHUPirate1
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:09 am

CDG-CVG is "served" by Air France as AF382 (operated by Air France) and AF8700 (operated by Delta as flight 43)...AF382 has been cancelled, DL43 is operating approximately an hour behind schedule...
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EA CO AS
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:12 am

So here's a random thought...if they've identified the passengers and/or crewmembers who present a threat to that aircraft, why not just arrest them at CDG and allow the flight to operate as planned?  Big grin

[Edited 2003-12-24 20:20:35]
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GLAguy
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:13 am

Link to this item on Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?storyID=4042525

Not much info though.

Anyone know the circumstances of these cancellations?
 
SAAB340
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:13 am

Only if life were so simple EA CO AS!!!
You know better than that... I hope..
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:17 am

You know better than that... I hope..

Sorry, I neglected to add the big "I'm being a smartass" smiley to the end of my post.
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airjampanam
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:24 am

Here is a fairly comprehensive explanation


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3775771/
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ssides
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:26 am

So here's a random thought...if they've identified the passengers and/or crewmembers who present a threat to that aircraft, why not just arrest them at CDG and allow the flight to operate as planned?

The fact that they've cancelled more than one flight indicates to me that the threat may be a general one, e.g. someone tipped them off that there might be an incident on a CDG-LAX or CDG-CVG flight. If the threat were more specific, that's probably what they would have done.
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F9Widebody
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:26 am

FoxNews is now reporting these flights were targeted by Al-Qaeda, the same flights are now also cancelled tommorrow.
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Flying Belgian
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:27 am

France 2 TV channel reported VERY HIGH SECURITY THREAT on all AF flights from Paris to California.
They were advised directly from the CIA.

Damned Al-Qaeda  Sad  Sad

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maiznblu_757
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:35 am

Air Tahiti flight to LAX cancelled also.
 
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:37 am

the good thing is that through AF and their partners, they are able to reconnect their passengers. However, espically around Christmas, this is a huge inconvinence.

still puzzeled about the Paris-CVG flight.

I think this whole terror alert thing is reall dumb, but when there is enough informatino to cancel a flight, I begin to think that maybe its not so bad.
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ssides
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:41 am

The CDG-CVG flight continues to LAX.

What other US airlines does AF partner with besides DL? Does the new NW/CO alliance help that situation at all? I would assume many LAX-bound passengers would be re-routed through EWR, ATL, IAH, DTW, and MSP.
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artsyman
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:46 am

Do you remember that on 9.11, the world in general was filled with disbelief with what actually happened. This happened because nobody believed it was possible and were extremely surprised. Now whenever the US raises the threat levels, and shares advice, people tend to say that it is all hot air and over reaction. I would love to think that it was, but sadly, I do not.

Sadly with the level of direct specific concern, It is sadly likely that we are about the face another Islamic driven dark day.
 
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Bruce
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:07 am

Cancelling the flights was a mistake. Now the terrorists will be free to go somewhere else.

I realize it was a general threat but still, you could examine the manifest and pick out certain pax or random searches and if there was anyone on those flights who was going to do bad they would get them.

If they nailed it down to a certain airline and destination i would have been easy for authorities to go thru 300 people and find the bad one.

Just think, if someone wanted to board a paris - LA flight an blow it up, and the flight was cancelled, those pax are being put on other flights so now who knows where that bad person will end up. maybe over YOUR town!

But yeah, I agree with Jeremy (artsyman) we have not seen the end of air terrorism. We just keep putting it off.
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Flying Belgian
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:08 am

It seems to me, that Al-Qaeda really tries to target California.

The most recent security threats were all targeting SFO, LA, ...

Maybe they want to show they can hit both US coasts. Sad, very sad.




FB
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:15 am

If they nailed it down to a certain airline and destination i would have been easy for authorities to go thru 300 people and find the bad one.

They actually did this, at least according to what I heard. They cancelled the flights suddenly and without notice after they had gone through the passengers waiting to board and mustered them for known terrorists.

What would you have suggested they do - allow them to board, take control of the aircraft resulting in it being subsequently shot down or worse?

Dave
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Flying Belgian
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:18 am

Les vols concernés au départ de Paris sont l'AF068 et l'AF070 le 24 décembre, et le AF068 le 25 décembre. Les vols concernés au départ de Los Angeles sont l'AF069 le 24 décembre et l'AF071 et l'AF069 le 25 décembre, a-t-elle ajouté.

Which means:

AF 068/070 CDG-LAX on 24th dec are cancelled.
AF 069 frm LAX to CDG is cancelled on 24th dec.
AF 069/071 frm LAX to CDG are cancelled on 25th dec.

This was quoted by French Minister of Defence Michelle Alliot-Marie.
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artsyman
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:21 am

Personally I think the threat is of a shoot down, not an on board bomb. I think they should have kept the cancelation private, and scoured the areas around LAX looking for nutjobs

Jeremy
 
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:25 am

From Air Tahiti Nui website:

As of 12:10pm PST all Air Tahiti Nui flights systemwide are operating as scheduled for Dec 24 & 25. Due to increased security passengers should check in for all flights 3 1/2 hours prior to scheduled departure. Please refer to the "HOT TIPS for Holiday Travel" Item on this section of the website for suggestions regarding security, baggage and check in times.

- dated today.

TN cite 'manpower shortages' as the cause of problems at LAX.

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UAL747
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:25 am

I was thinking of the plane being shot down from the ground rather than a bomb on board as well. Can you imagine the anxiety those people are going through who were to fly on that plane are going through? Especially when they are finally on to their destinations.

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clickhappy
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:29 am

Al-Qaeda? Do you mean THIS Al-Qaeda?
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:29 am

Hopefully the French government realizes that the effort to not support the US in the war, although probably appreciated by the terrorist groups, doesn't mean that they will not be a target, or used as a tool.
 
cba
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:32 am

Yes, they should have cancelled them due to mechanical problems or some other excuse. They don't need to go telling everyone in the world that they cancelled those specific flights because of security concerns.
 
expex
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:37 am

Cba -

I understand where your coming from but as an airline employee I can tell you suspicions would be raised if every flight you operated between two city pairs was cancelled for mx.

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longhaulheavy
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:46 am

Reuters now reporting that al Qaeda infiltrated Air France, not just targeted the flights. Yikes. Somehow, this is not surprising, especially considering the religion and homeland of many who work for Air France in Paris.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:47 am

@Maiznblu 757:

Make a clear distinction between the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan. Don't come with such brainless judgements. France never pretended to be out of threat.
Learn to think.

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electraBob
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:56 am

Folks, I just checked my December American Express Sky Guide --

The CDG-CVG AF Flight #382 Lv CDG 1015a Ar CVG 125p ---
does not operate Dec 24

Unless my sky-guide is wrong, this flight was not supposed to operate today.
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StarAC17
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:57 am

Hopefully the French government realizes that the effort to not support the US in the war, although probably appreciated by the terrorist groups, doesn't mean that they will not be a target, or used as a tool.

It has still yet to be proven that Iraq has any terrorist links or was involved in 9/11. The French only opposed the Iraq war not the war on terrorism.
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OPNLguy
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:00 am

>>>It is sadly likely that we are about the face another Islamic driven dark day.

Artsyman,

With all due respect, I have to take polite exception with that statement.

Quite simply, it paints -all- people of the Islamic faith with the same broad brush, and ignores the fact that the vast majority of them are just as peace-loving as you or I, and that a minority of militants are out there within that faith causing the problem.

As an example, imagine timothy McVeigh, the guy they captured right after the Oklahoma City Federal Building was bombed. I don't know what his faith was, but assume he was a ______ (fill-in with Baptist, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Buddist, whatever). The next time any attack was expected, anyone discussing another Baptist, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Buddist-driven dark day. would have likewise been "punishing" the 99.999% of the peace-loving folks for the actions of the .0001%.

Whether it's an Islamic extremist, or a Baptist, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Buddist extremeist, our disdain, ire, disgust, and defensiveness should be directed specifically at the extremist nature of the individuals involved, and not -all- the members of the general group they might be in, or related to.

I thought twice about posting this, as I didn't want this thread to stray anymore off-topic than it already has, but the spirit of the season (whichever season one is celebrating) led me to believe that we all need to focus on our commonalities, rather than our differences, and stress peaceful solutions over violent ones.

May Peace be with us all this season...

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ssides
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:02 am

Yes, they should have cancelled them due to mechanical problems or some other excuse. They don't need to go telling everyone in the world that they cancelled those specific flights because of security concerns.

The way rumors fly today through our diligent press, I doubt this would have been believed. The cancellation of all LAX-bound flights from CDG for two days only for mechanical reasons surely would have raised some flags.
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FLAIRPORT
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:15 am

the CDG-CVG flight does not operate on Wednesday for AF, however, they codeshare with DL. Vica Versa for tomorrow.
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PiedmontGirl
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:18 am

According to the following article, the is good evidence that Air France has, in fact, been infiltrated by al Qaeda.

Courtesy of the MSNBC.com site:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ID/3775771/

It's a fairly long article.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:36 am

Without any specific information, sounds like more French-bashing by the Bush Administration. Why is it safe for US airlines to fly out of CDG today (including AA which let on Richard Reid there), and why is it safe for AF to operate its flights to JFK and EWR today, but it's not safe for AF to operate these flights to LAX? To say that Air France has been infiltrated by Al Qaeda because they employ Muslims is like saying the US govt. has been infiltrated by Halliburton because it employs Dick Cheney, there has to be something more specific than that!!!
 
sr117
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:37 am

From the MSNBC article PiedmontGirl posted...

"The U.S. official said Washington was trying to get other flights grounded, one or more of which may be connected to Air Mexico. “There is no way yet to determine when the worst of this will pass,” he said."

I am assuming they mean AeroMexico, if so then it's strange indeed, targeting a mexican plane, what do we have to do in any of this?

 
F9Widebody
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:38 am

So if they wanted to "French Bash", why did they only cancel flights to LAX? Also, why did they cancel an Air Tahiti flight?

[Edited 2003-12-24 22:40:15]
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Benjamin
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:38 am

As an example, imagine timothy McVeigh, the guy they captured right after the Oklahoma City Federal Building was bombed. I don't know what his faith was, but assume he was a ______ (fill-in with Baptist, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Buddhist, whatever). The next time any attack was expected, anyone discussing another Baptist, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Buddhist-driven dark day. would have likewise been "punishing" the 99.999% of the peace-loving folks for the actions of the .0001%.

Typical babble. Finding one example does not disprove a general trend. Learn statistics. In fact, learn math. Answer this one simple question: Of the X number of terrorist acts committed in the modern world, which religion are the majority of people committing these acts? And in the name of what religion do they commit these acts?

Is it "Baptist, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Buddhist, whatever" as you say? No, surprise, surprise, it's Islam. Don't let your political correctness get in the way of the facts. Sorry to say, the facts prove you wrong.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:45 am

Funny how despite all the beating up on foreigners going on in here, 100% of the aircraft-used-as-missiles to date have been US airliners on US domestic flights. Just because the Wackenhut guys swapped their jackets for those bearing the logo of the TSA, it doesn't mean that hijackings can only happen abroad now. Europe has lived and dealt with the threat of terrorism for far longer than America has, and upgraded its airport security after the Lockerbie bombing to a level higher than the United States maintained until many years later, i.e. 9/11/01. It's time to stop all the nationalistic and racist BS and realize that security is EVERYONE's responsiblility, and you can't be 100% safe.
 
Benjamin
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:58 am

It's time to stop all the nationalistic and racist BS and realize that security is EVERYONE's responsiblility, and you can't be 100% safe

What are you TALKING about?? What nationalistic, racist comments have been said in this thread? I love how certain people LOVE to throw out the "R" word even when it is completely inapplicable. It's great. The people that claim to be the most open-minded and "progressive" are the ones that think about the "R" word more than anyone else.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:58 am

>>>Typical babble. Finding one example does not disprove a general trend. Learn statistics. In fact, learn math. Answer this one simple question: Of the X number of terrorist acts committed in the modern world, which religion are the majority of people committing these acts? And in the name of what religion do they commit these acts?

Sorry Benjamin, you've missed the point.

It matters not whether there have been 10 terrorist acts by Islamic fundamentalist/extremists, or 100. It also matters not whether there are more attacks by Islamic fundamentalists/extremists compared with the fundamentalists/extremists from other religions.

The point remains that holding the 99.999% of a group (or whatever precise statistical percentage it actually is) responsible for the actions of the .0001% (who also have concurrent political motivations) is just flat wrong.

Have a nice holiday....


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:03 am

I'm talking about the branding of Muslims as terrorists by people who probably have never met a Muslim. You are the same people that 40 years ago probably thought all African-Americans were criminals. Generalizations about people based on their race or religion is racism.
 
jcs17
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:03 am

As an example, imagine timothy McVeigh, the guy they captured right after the Oklahoma City Federal Building was bombed. I don't know what his faith was, but assume he was a ______ (fill-in with Baptist, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Buddhist, whatever). The next time any attack was expected, anyone discussing another Baptist, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Buddhist-driven dark day. would have likewise been "punishing" the 99.999% of the peace-loving folks for the actions of the .0001%.

Wrong. NO ONE in America or Christinaity supported what Timothy McVeigh did except for a small militia or two. The sad fact is that many in the Islamic community, including leading clerics, do pray for the deaths of Americans, and the deaths of "infidels." You saw the footage after 9/11 in Palestine and Syria, people were jumping around in the streets and cheering. To large portion of the Middle East, America "deserved" 9/11. A decent percentage of Muslims may condemn these attacks, but they have NEVER done anything to stop them from happening. They shed their tear, say that "Islam opposes this," but I have yet to see moderate Muslims going to war against Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorist cells.

Without any specific information, sounds like more French-bashing by the Bush Administration. Why is it safe for US airlines to fly out of CDG today (including AA which let on Richard Reid there), and why is it safe for AF to operate its flights to JFK and EWR today, but it's not safe for AF to operate these flights to LAX? To say that Air France has been infiltrated by Al Qaeda because they employ Muslims is like saying the US govt. has been infiltrated by Halliburton because it employs Dick Cheney, there has to be something more specific than that!!!

What a baseless statement. It has been stated through several independent news agencies that the US had specific threat information about these flights, especially AF068. To blame this on the Bush administration and say that they were "bashing the French" just shows your pure unadulterated ignorance. What if the Bush administration had allowed the flight to takeoff and something happened, I guarantee you that you would be pointing the finger at the Bush administration.
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OPNLguy
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:09 am

>>>Wrong. NO ONE in America or Christinaity supported what Timothy McVeigh did except for a small militia or two.

I never said anyone did. Go back and read my earlier post -carefully-. All I said was -assume- McVeigh was a _____ (fill-in the blank with the religion of your choice, etc. etc.).


RiverVisualNYC said:
>>>Generalizations about people based on their race or religion is racism.

Bingo!

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: AF Cancels Flight CDG-LAX For Security Reasons

Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:10 am

Josh-nice to be called ignorant by a sub-20 year old Texan, have you ever been out of the US or for that matter, out of Texas? You were what, like 10 when McVeigh bombed the Murrah building? People like him had and continue to have plenty of support in America, from Christian white-power extremists. So ok, you say there is specific evidence about AF flight 68, what is it? That's what everyone here would like to know, except those that blindly trust the administration.

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