lehpron
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Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:53 pm

It seems to me perfectly natural to further stretch the 777 from the current size of the 773ER all the way to the stretch version of the A380 in order to compete with that version; what is that, another 20 feet of constant-fuselage cross-section?

Slap on some 7E7 flavored GE90's (call them GE90-130E) with an increased MTOW of 850,000-lbs, similar range to the previous stretch, strengthen the main landing gears (increase tires from 2x3 to 2x4) and wings (increase spane by 10 feet) with a slightly higher takeoff speed (maybe another 10 knots) resulting in the new Boeing 777-400, which could enter service at the same time as A388.

Any airport or airline that has a 777 would know how to deal with a larger version, a 774 may not require so many changes like with the A380's double-decks.

Good idea, bad idea or useless endevor?

If Boeing took this idea seriously, I'd back them up, it would seem easier and maybe even cheaper than 7E7 project...

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Skibo777
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:00 pm

 
777ER
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:06 pm

It would be half good and half bad. Good reason is Airlines that operate the B777 and have the A380 on order like SQ could cancel the A380 order and order the 774 and only operate the 777s for long haul due to the same flight deck which means that say a pilot is flying the 772ER one day then the next day he could fly the 774 will basically NO new training. Bad reason is, well there is two bad reasons that I can think of: More risk of having a tail strike if the level of attack is too high and there might be problems with the weight of the aircraft EG the same problem that the A346 is having.

The more logical idea is to extend the upper deck of the 744 to the tail and keep the fuslage length as it currently is on the 744 and introduce the same flight deck that is on the 777 then airlines that operate the 777 and have A380s on order can cancel their order and order the new 747
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Korg747
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:34 pm

I think that Boeing should come up with a 4 engine 777 like how the A343/2 and the 332/3 are. Also Boeing should make the 4 engine 777 aircraft have on heck of a long range. Like 12000NM Big grin
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777ER
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:57 pm

I think that Boeing should come up with a 4 engine 777 like how the A343/2 and the 332/3 are.

The A332/3 only have two engines.

Also Boeing should make the 4 engine 777 aircraft have on heck of a long range. Like 12000NM

That would be like around the world 1 1/2 times. Just think of all the DVT casses brought against the airline!.
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baw2198
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:05 pm

I agree with tail strike idea, being that long, the 774 might have to use rwy's that are the same size as DEN's new one ( I think its somewhere near 16000ft).
You might do better with a MD-11 thats stretched and put the GE90-115's on it for fuel economy.
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CanadianNorth
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:13 pm

its a good idea may i point out the following things...

#1. Is it seriously possible to have A380 capacity on 2 engines?
#2. I smell tail strike.
#3. Would the design take the wieght and if so would it be economical?
#4. making a 4 holer would be making an aircraft that isnt a 777.
#5. With the A380 AND the 774, would the airlines really need that many seats at once?



CanadianNorth
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777ER
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:17 pm

#5. With the A380 AND the 774, would the airlines really need that many seats at once?

It would let the airlines choose which aircraft they would like for their fleet
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solnabo
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 9:31 pm

773 is not THAT popular!!*thank god*
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:27 pm

Lehpron - an interesting idea, but perhaps the biggest problem is that a further stretch would make the aircraft very long. As has been mentioned, this would cause a tail-strike problem, though with fly-by-wire, and a computer control system, this could possibly be avoided. However, the extra length could well cause problems with airport handling, particularly as it would put the aircraft outside the much touted 80mx80m box. I would also be concerned about the efficiency of an aircraft that long in respect to the width of its cabin. I believe there is a ratio, above which the aerodynamic efficiency begins to drop off somewhat. I would suspect there would also be issues with the strength of such a long structure...

All of these things are probably overcomable (is that a word?). I think the big nixer would be that Boeing simply doesn't believe there is a market for 500+ seat aircraft. What little market there is, it feels it can serve with the 777-300 and -300ER, and possibly the 747. Unless Boeing decides its market forecasts are wrong, I don't see them racing to stretch the 777 any further.

V/F
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Boeing Nut
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:25 pm

Boeing has toyed around with the idea of stretching the 777 one more time, but I don't think it will happen. IMO, I think the best idea is for a reintroduction of the 747-500/600 with 7E7 technology incorporated into it.

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ORDagent
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:29 am

The 777 would simply be too long. Friends of mine were on a LHR-ORD AA 777 flight. For some reason the 2L door would not open. They were going to back the plane up to use the 1L. Then they were told that they could not do that as the tail of the plane would be in the taxiway! So needles to say the 777-400 would not be able to used at ORD T5 which is a very important market for the 777 with AA/UA/KE just to name a few that utilize the 777 here. I'm sure that it would probably be an even bigger problem at airports with even older and tighter space constraints than the 12 year old T5.
 
Santhosh
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:30 am

As they try to increase the length of the aircraft.It might stuff in more people in it,but then will that aircraft be aerodynamically effeciant as the 777-300?I think the current length and the twin large engine config is the best for the aircraft.Any more structural alterations might no make the aircraft as effectiant.

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Korg747
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:00 am

777ER,

"The A332/3 only have two engines."

What I meant with the comment about the A340s and the A330S, Is that they are -almost- using the same Fueslage just different engines and may be wings. I'm sure thats saving Airbus a lot of money by just using one fueslage type and toying with it comparing to the time and money to manufacturer lets say a 747 and then a whole different aircraft(777/767/757) which got nothing in common with the 747 at all...Do you get my point?

"That would be like around the world 1 1/2 times. Just think of all the DVT casses brought against the airline!."

Well a 4 engine 777(stretched alittile bit) with 12000NM could also end the "how many bags and what weight should they have" issues, I mean more cargo or the aircrat can take more weight now of course. Come to think of it, 774 would make an excellent cargo aircraft don't you think?
Please excuse my English!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:41 am

A 777 with more than two engines would be a complete waste of Boeing's time and resources.... not to mention, it would have to be a whole new aircraft; which Boeing has no interest whatsoever in currently due to 7E7 development.
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RiverVisualNYC
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:45 am

Why not stretch it so that the nose is in the origin and the tail is in the destination, and the pax can just walk it, no engines required!
 
Spaceman
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:47 am

Sometimes you really need to know when to quit.
 
futterman
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:52 am

In regards to tailstrikes...

the A346, with a length of 247 feet, is just 4'8" longer than the 773. It may just be me, but the A346 [and all A340 models, for that matter], seem to get off the ground almost instantaneously after the nose wheel is lifted. On Boeing aircraft, it doesn't take much longer but you can definately notice that it takes a bit longer for the main gear to become airborne.

If you stuck an extra 20 feeton the 773, as Lephron suggests, and called it the 777-400, and gave it whatever makes Airbus planes get off the runway, it may just work.

What does make the A340 series seem to pop off the runway?
What the FUTT?
 
VSGirl
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:59 am

I don’t think that Boeing would stretch the 777 any more, but you never know.

It would be good to see the Boeing 777 with two more engines, but that’s just my opinion  Smile

What makes the Airbus A340 'pop' off the runway, that will be the wings and the trust from the engine  Big grin

Happy New Year

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futterman
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:16 am

What makes the Airbus A340 'pop' off the runway, that will be the wings and the trust from the engine  Big grin

shaddap...i knew that lol

is that all, though? seems as if the A340 seems to be able to get off with a really low angle of attack [<--that's the word...AOA.]

i think i'll post this in tech/ops, instead.
What the FUTT?
 
zak
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:26 am

it actually has to do with the AOA(angle of attack) to the wing whilst on the runway. a330 and 340 do have a significantly higher negative AOA on the ground compared with 777 or 747 aircraft. the wing on the airbus has a negative aoa till the nosewheel leaves the ground and then in a very short amount of time the created lift increases thus popping it off the ground.
on the 777 where the aoa on the ground is almost neutral the lift buildup is more gradual which lets the plane leave terra firma in a more linear way in comparison with the airbus types.
these two pictures give a decent comparison of this:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © K.L.YIM
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © K.L.YIM

10=2
 
AvObserver
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:18 am

Lehpron, you've a very active imagination which is not at all a bad thing. An editorial a long while back in Aviation Week advocated this very idea as an alternative to the 747X which Boeing was then touting. The idea was to offer a version with 85% of the capacity of the A380 and try to market it as a twin-engine alternative to the superjumbo. I agree, however, with most opinions here that it's a bad idea due to the danger of tail strike. Boeing could in theory have stretched the 777 more than they did but they wanted to keep a good margin of safety for takeoff rotation. As it is, the -300/300ER use semi-articulated landing gear that keep the wheels on the runway longer at takeoff, something not needed on even the 747. And I think Airbus is pushing their luck a bit with the A346 length, not that they had any choice if they wanted to match 773 capacity. I wouldn't be at all be surprised to hear of an occasional tail strike with that airplane, even though its' FBW software is certainly tweaked to deal with the extra-length. So, no 777-400, Boeing is better off trying to rejuvenate the 747 with 7E7 engines and systems. And as ConcordeBoy pointed out, a 4-engine 777 would have to be so extensively redesigned, it wouldn't make sense; the airplane was created specifically to be only a twin-it's wing was optimized to carry only two engines so it would be efficient in that configuration only. The common A330/340 wing made great economic sense since Airbus wanted to bring both a quad and twin version of the same design to market at the same time-I believe I read it saved them about $1.5 billion (in USD) over coming up with unique-winged versions, however, it entails a slight performance penalty, the reason the A330/340 cruise slightly slower than the 777.

Korg747, a seriously doubt the world needs a 12,000 nm range airplane, the A345 is a niche market airplane while the 772LR has only sold a few airframes as of yet.

And Solnabo, you appear lately to be bucking to be the de facto sucessor to the late (in this forum, anyway) and unlamented Hkgspotter1, "Troll Extraordinare", as I call him. You might want to consider posting more intelligent comments instead of mindless cheap shots like the example here. We all know you have an anti-Boeing agenda which is fine in itself, however some of your recent posts paint you as an obnoxious adolescent, not the 36-45 year old bracket your profile claims. Maybe you don't care about a respect rating but being compared to Hong Kong based Darryl is certainly no complement. Just a little friendly advice, Mr. Hermanson
 
gigneil
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:27 am

12000nm is hardly around the world and half again, for whoever said that.

N
 
lehpron
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:56 am

About the tailstrikes, I knew it could happen that is why I suggested an increase in wing area coupled with an increase in rotation speed, this should elliminate the need to a high AoA. By the time the plane's wing develop enough lift to gradually raise the plane until there is enough clearance, then the plane would pitch up, sort of like an MD-80.

In addition to the issue of tailstrikes, would the same problem not occur with A388?

As someone suggested, this plane might have to use a large runway, unless it was able to accelerate fast enough to use relatively shorter runways. In addition to increasing weight, that was the purpose or idea I had in mind with increasing the engine thrust -- not like Concorde, but faster than usual.

What is it now with 773ER, a one quarter-gravity of lateral acceleration? Give 774 a one third-gravity of lateral acceleration.

Another idea may be to consider with larger engines, have them merge into the wing so that some thrust can become blown off the flaps like the C-17, reducing ground roll distance for takeoff and landing altogether.

I don't think a 4-holer 777 would be a good idea, I see the wings breaking at the gate!

Speaking of gates, aren't longer planes positioned closer to the heart of an airport as opposed to the ends of the terminals to prevent them from having their tail stick out so far into the taxiway?
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nudelhirsch
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:59 am

Easier: gilve a 773 to LH and they out their coach seat pitch in it...You will see, how more pax can be stuffed in a regular, unchanged, 777 body than a 380 would swallow... Laugh out loud
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Korg747
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:05 am

Nudelhirsch,
My friend it's already been done!.....the Japanese carries do have 773s with over 500 seats.

Lehpron
"I don't think a 4-holer 777 would be a good idea, I see the wings breaking at the gate!"

It doesn't have to be 4 GE-115S or 4 TRENT800 Or 4 pws4000. what ever the 7E7 has would be a good start. besides, Boeing would have to redesign the wings anyway to take the weight.
Please excuse my English!
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:18 am

My friend it's already been done!.....the Japanese carries do have 773s with over 500 seats

Holy cow...than LHs 380 will probably be the first airliners carrying over 1.000...

I got the point with the AOA, but the 346 is pretty much stretched compared to their 200 or 300s...
Or taking the 767...the 400 offers a bit of length too...so, would it really be so tight on the 777 with the AOA that it would become impossible?

And the 340s have a record with several tail strikes, so they might haave done something wrong...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
sv11
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:06 am

I wonder if Boeing can put a second deck in the 777. They seem to have put crew rest areas (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/feature/osu.html). Looking at the 777 cross section I think a second deck with 3 across economy seating in the middle may be possible?

sv11
 
AvObserver
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:40 am

"Looking at the 777 cross section I think a second deck with 3 across economy seating in the middle may be possible?"

But the airplane crew is willing to crouch or squat a bit when moving about the rest area; the passengers wouldn't be so tolerant. Though they probably could squeeze (the operative word) passenger seating into part of the 777's upper crown, access would be inconvenient and headroom above extremely limited, worse I'd think than the cramped EMB-145 RJ I was on recently. Not a good idea, it would take the concept of 'cozy' to a whole new level.

 
sv11
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:49 pm

if you look at the 777 cross section on boeing's web site, there appears to be adequate space over the center section to may be put 3 seats there. the center ceiling could be lowered a bit also (the ceilings on top of the side seats are lower). If the height of the current aisle was lowered, there could be space to put another aisle in a deck above the current aisles. I am not sure it will be cramped.

sv11
 
Thrust
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:09 pm

Don't see why not. Boeing certainly should focus on the 777, considering it is one of the most efficient and flexible jetliners of its time. Still, I think a more alternative answer to the A380 is a stretched 747 with 7E7 technology, or with the immensely powerful 777 engines. Hang two of the GE90s on each wing, and Boeing could make the 747 over twice as big as the A380. Over 400,000 pounds of total thrust is unmatchable power. Course, fuel efficiency might be a problem.
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planemaker
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:14 pm

Just a note to some of the fantasizers, every change has a ramification on the rest of the design. For example:

If, as mentioned in the above post, you hang 4 GE90s on a 747 you are going to have to increase the ground clearance (not to mention beefing up wing) which means lengthening the gear legs, which makes them heavier so then you have to beef up the structure, and the heavier the airplane the less range it has, etc.

So, before posting some new design feature you thought up, think about how it would affect the aircraft.
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Jet-lagged
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:13 am

SV11.

That's a neat idea. Put beds up there for high paying first or business class passengers, and perhaps they won't mind the stooping. I wouldn't. Much of the space in the new flat bed seating is wasted (except for psychological space), so reduce the amount of pitch and let each of those flyers have a bed. I guess it must be a no cabin service area.

I don't think you could lower the ceiling in the main cabin though - those passengers would feel cramped.



 
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RayChuang
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:36 am

I don't think Boeing will want to stretch the 777 any more.

Two reasons: 1) structural integrity of such a long fuselage and 2) it would exceed 80 meters in length, which means it wouldn't fit in the 80 x 80 "box" that is the new standard for large airplane gates with jetwalks.
 
lehpron
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:00 pm

"Two reasons: 1) structural integrity of such a long fuselage and 2) it would exceed 80 meters in length, which means it wouldn't fit in the 80 x 80 "box" that is the new standard for large airplane gates with jetwalks."

What kind of stretch are you thinking of? An additional 20 feet onto the 773 would keep it just less than 80m easily, unless you want to cry about a few centimeters. In terms of structure, why is the A388 even planned? Consider this: could 7E7 be built 15 years ago? More than likely no, because the technology was either not practical or viable yet, the 777 was built on what was available. Maybe the idea of a 774 maybe closer to a future 7E7-superstretch version, or a totally new airplane, new it terms of time.

IMO, whatever comes out of the 7E7 program will only impact the industry as much as the 737 has, per se not per class. Emphasizing on the latter: The 737 has created an integration of standardization of the small jet enterprise, the 7E7 will do the same thing for large planes in the next 20 years -- so what is left?

With this idea of an additional variant to the 777, I am only adding to what I see as a problem. What may be a business goldmine, continually tweaking every new machine to get it more and better than the previous, puts an artificial constraint on the technological revolution. The eventual oversimplification will kill the aviation industry within a hundred years, maybe that is over dramatic; I will give it 68 years from now.

I guarantee to you guys that before the industry disintegrates, Boeing would have enjoyed at least 35 years of success from a future line of medium sized planes (combination of what will come out of to 7E7 and the experience of 737) that have become so efficient that they can be used for both short haul as well as globally long haul flights and so quiet and have the oddest advancements that they will be able to operate out of the smallest of airfields.

Of course, so will Airbus; that is unless they change their routine…in the meantime, I think a 777-400 would be a terrifically simple competitor when it becomes needed.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
KGAI
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:41 am

Um, folks, some simple facts and math:

Lengths:
747
231ft 10in (70.7m)

777-300
242ft 4in (73.9m)

A340-600
246ft 11in (75.3m)

A380
239ft 3in (73m)

A380 capacity: 550
777-300 capacity: 370

550-370 = 180 seats

180 seats / 9 seats per row = 20 rows needed (An Emirates 773 has 48 rows)

at a conservative 31 inches per row, that's 20*31=320 inches, or 52 feet

52+242 = 294ft

A 777 would need more like 20 more METERS rather than 20 FEET to match an A380.
 
AMM744
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:44 pm

I reckon that the 747 will get a revamp, IHA 747X as planned way back in 1997.

Boeing are just playing a waiting game to see how the A380 pans out, the 747 could still turn out to be their their trump card and they would be foolish to write it off just yet.

Both 7E7 and 777 technology can easily be applied to any stretched 747. The shape, design and flexibility of this classic airframe cannot be matched - period.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 7:18 am

How would you board a streched 773? It would take forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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airways6max
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 7:31 am

A better idea, if Boeing wants to provide a competitor to the A380 would be to take the basic 777 design, or adapt the 7E7 design, make it two stories and add two more engines and call it the 787 or 797.
 
dw747400
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:27 am

As mentioned above, in order to put a 777-300 into the same seating class as the A380, you would need an aircraft that is approaching 300 feet in length. A simple 20 foot plug will not do. A 20 foot stretch to the 773 might be a good 744 replacement, but it couldn't compete directly with the A380 (though it could potentially take orders away from the A380 if it meets an airlines need better than the larger aircraft since Airbus has no 747-sized plane right now).

A second stretch, while cheaper than an all new design, would be a much larger undertaking than the 777-300 was.

The wing on the 773ER is pretty much maxed out-a 774 would probably require root extensions at the very least. A root extension would also involve a costly re-design of the center body section.

At a takeoff weight in the neighborhood of 850 to 900,000 pounds, the gear would obviously need strengthening. Also, it would probably be necessary to lengthen the gear. Gear redesign is another major modification, as the wheel wells and thus all the center body components would need to be re-arranged to allow the new gear to fit. This probably would be less of a challenge than usual because the center body section would already be undergoing modification, but it still wouldn't be cheap/easy. Keep in mind that the cost and complexity of redesigning the 707s landing gear to allow a stretch was a major factor in launching the 747.

As fuselage length increases, so does the amount of structure needed to support it. A long, thin fuselage could end up being very heavy and reduce the performance of the aircraft.

As far as adding two more engines, that is extremely unlikely. Not only does it serve no real purpose except to run up the operating costs, but the redesign costs would be substantial- quite possibly 50% of an entirely new design.

Overall, though I doubt we will see a 777-400, I can't conclusively count it out. If Boeing decides to phase out the 747 rather than try and revamp it, they may look to the 777 to reach deeper into the large plane market.

I do not see any future for a four engined 777, and doubt that Boeing will be building a 4 engine plane under 700,000 pounds in the near future unless there is a major change in propulsion technology.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
sv11
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:37 am

I don't think Boeing will go head to head with the A380-the market is too small for both. Remember the costly Douglas/Lockheed battle over the not big 300 seat market with the DC-10/L-1011. I think that Boeing will look at a 450 seat 747X or 777. The 747X would be a possibility but would airlines be interested in another generation of the 747? Boeing may be able to do a double stretch of the 777 (they did it with the 767 and have the knowledge from Douglas aircraft who seem to know how to stretch the DC-8/DC-9/MD-80). Of course GE would have to develop a higher thrust engine. I still think an upper deck can be added in the middle on the 777 without cramped space etc. Looking at the 777 cross section on Boeing's website there is almost same space below the ceiling of the middle section as above the ceiling.

sv11
 
dw747400
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 10:16 am

Sv,

Its a good idea, but keep in mind that the space over the cabin is not only arguably too small, but also full of equipment. I don't have a technical diagram handy, but there are a number of wire bundles, ducts, and other items that run through the area above the cabin. This is in addition to any structure that is up there. When Boeing put in the crew rest areas, they moved around a lot of stuff on the "upper deck". I don't know if they would be able to squeeze out enough space to make an area that Pax would be willing to sit in.

Additionally, it may be necessary to install windows, which would further complicate the structure, and you would need to develop an evacuation plan for the upper deck-- likely involving the addition of several doors.

Had the 777 been designed from the start for this, it might of been possible.

I'd be curious what diagram your looking at that makes the ceiling area look so big, as the ones I've found on Boeing.com show the above-ceiling space to be much smaller than the cabin.

CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
sv11
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RE: Can The 777 Be Stretched Further Once More?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 12:34 pm

Dw747400,
If you go to this webpage http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/777technical.html and click on Technical Specs and then Interiors and then Cross Sections you can see the diagram. I don't know if this diagram is accurate or not and I don't know what stuff is up there above the middle seats. I am just pointing out that there appears to be space there (in blue) above the middle seats.

sv11