767Lover
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Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:34 am

Absent flight attendants thwart Delta operations

By PAUL KAPLAN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

For hundreds of metro Atlantans, Delta Air Lines will always be synonymous with Christmas Day -- for all the wrong reasons.

Delta had to cancel or delay more than 30 flights Thursday, many of them out of Atlanta, because flight attendants did not show up for work. At least 13 flights out of Atlanta were listed as canceled.

"They're screwing up hundreds of people's vacations," fumed Joel Babbit, an Atlanta public relations executive whose Christmas flight to Puerto Rico was canceled.

Babbit said an airline official told the stranded passengers that not enough flight attendants had arrived to satisfy federal regulations for the Atlanta-to-San Juan run.

Delta personnel at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport were scrambling all day to find alternate flights -- even on other airlines, when necessary -- to move the inconvenienced passengers.

"Right now the flights are moving and we feel that the flight attendant situation is manageable," Delta spokesman Joshua Smith said at midday.

Although it was hard to ignore that the employee no-shows occurred on Christmas Day, Smith said he would not "speculate" about whether the missing flight attendants had chosen their families over the airline's passengers.

"I don't want the flight attendants portrayed as a problem," Smith said. "They are professionals. It's hard to say what the exact reason is."

Smith pointed out that there's been "a terrible case of the flu this season. Hypothetically, we could have an abnormally high number of sickouts."

That would not explain why Delta was the only airline that had major cancellations Thursday, or why much of the problem was in Atlanta, where the flu season has been about average for the nation, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The heightened terror alert was not a factor. "We have no cancellations due to security issues," Smith said.

Stranded passenger Babbit wasn't buying into any theories about the flu.

"I think it's a reflection of the work ethic at Delta," he said.

Delta's incoming chief executive, Gerald Grinstein, was not available for comment, Smith said.

Delta flight attendants are not unionized, so it was not known whether the no-shows were related to a grievance.

In February 2002, Delta's flight attendants voted to remain nonunion. At that time, just 29 percent of them voted to support efforts to unionize by the Association of Flight Attendants.

Delta flight attendant Andrea Taylor, who supports efforts to unionize, said what happened Thursday was not a sickout, but more the result of many flight attendants taking sick leave before the end of the year. Delta flight attendants will receive far fewer sick days in 2004, therefore "any flight attendant who needs a hangnail removed is doing it before 2004," she said.

Smith declined further comment late Thursday.

Delta was able to salvage some flights instead of canceling them by contacting flight attendants who were on call for Christmas Day. Most of them reported to work within two hours, Smith said. The canceled and delayed flights included runs to several major destinations, including Chicago, Charlotte, Orlando, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Mexico City and San Juan.

Passengers on at least one canceled international flight had to stay overnight in Atlanta, but most passengers on other flights were rerouted within 45 minutes, Smith said.

Two flights were canceled for mechanical reasons, Smith said. Delta was working to press planes into duty that otherwise would have had Christmas Day off in order to accommodate passengers from those flights, he said.


 Staff writer Mary Lou Pickel contributed to this article.
 
JC5280
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:55 am

"Delta : We love to fly and it shows"
 
Matt D
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:02 am

Well for what it's worth, maybe this will blow a big hole in Upper Managements pompous mantra of "We Don't Need You, But You Need Us" attitude; that employees are a liability as opposed to an asset.

If some anonymous bean counter decides not to show up one day, business will still go on. But let a few pilots, F/A's, mechanics, or even gate agents not show, then we'll see who really makes or breaks the airline.


Good for them. Sux for the passengers, who get caught in the middle of this.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:18 am

Well I am not surprised! The pay cuts so far at Delta have all been on the backs of the non union workers and that is everyone except the pilots. Also with management and the retention bonus's, this is only the beginning.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:31 am

Luv2fly:

I am not surprised at this turn of events either. So long as DL was operating with management that came up through the ranks in house, it worked well.

If memory serves me correctly, the last DL in house CEO was Hollis Harris. Ron Allen was the first non in house CEO at DL and he virtually destroyed most of the DL loyalty and a great deal of the work ethic that was there. The previous DL CEO, Leo Mullin, was no prize either.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:35 am

PiedmontGirl

Like always you are correct, and I see this as the tip of the iceberg, can anyone say AA Pilots and CHOAS!!!!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
PVD757
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:38 am

I guess the acronym "D oesn't E ver L eave T he A irport" came true!
 
jcs17
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:41 am

Not entirely surprising. Customer service is the LAST priority at Delta.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
toltommy
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:14 am

Ron Allen was an in-house DL CEO. Worked his whole career at DL. Don't know why he thought so differently, and just who convinced him that 7.5 was a good idea. But the man destroyed a good airline. DL's never been the same. He changed it from a family to just another company. They shoulda convinced Hollis to come back after he retired from AC. But I understand he's having a good time playing with his little airline down in PTC... Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:18 am

TOLtommy:

Ron Allen was an in-house DL CEO. Worked his whole career at DL.

Thanks for the information. I never talked to anyone from DL who would claim him, so I figured he came from the outside.  Smile

He did flatly destroy a fine, fine airline.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:49 am

The irony of the entire situation is that if the union had been voted in back in Jan 2002, this sorry state of affairs would not exist today. Regardless what Andrea Taylor says publicly, this was a plain old sickout - official or not. Gee, I wonder if they called Sharon Wibben to fill in - after all she is FA qualified as the propoganda never stopped telling folks.

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
toltommy
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:18 am

Riiiiiight.... Having a union would've solved this problem....

There's never been a sickout at a unionized carrier, has there. Big grin

Oh wait, they were just better organized!

Had a union been voted in in 2002, they likely would still not have a contract. First contracts take a long time to sort out. Only thing that's certain if the DL FA's had voted in the union is that the AFA wouldn't have had to "merge" with the CWA. There would've been more than 10000 new dues paying members to keep the AFA in the black. But hey' if you have to merge, the CWA is a good choice. After all, they've been so effective keeping jobs at US...
 
tbear815
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:30 am

As usual and not surprisingly, PiedmontGirl's thoughts and ethics show through. Sweetheart, you may be retired, but some airline somewhere should recognize your talents and bring you aboard as SVP of Inflight and Customer Service. Sure as hell beats the MBA bean counters!

About a non-union sickout: I don't know, but the organization I work for has a "use it or lose it" policy. They're pretty good about "pre-need" sick days so you don't lose them, but there has to be good relations between management and line personnel. Regretably, I don't see this in many airline management policies. Maybe the execs should be required to work the line (ramp, gate, crew [supernumerary], etc.) every year like a "refresher" so they get a dose of reality.

Theory is great; reality is reality!
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:30 am

if there is any good news it is this:
It was on Chirstmas Day, not statisticly one of the busiest days for travel (espically on long-hauls... which were 2 of the routes, and internationally, which was MEX). Plus, the terror alert helped lesson the crowds somewhat as well. There was space on other flights and not a lot of people to move around! So, it could have been MUCH worse had it happened on another day.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:15 am

It's entertaining to see that people can draw conclusions about a company of 68,000 people (ie - "customer service is their last priority") based on one day's actions by what is most likely a very small but vocal group of flight attendants.

33 flights were impacted on Christmas Day. That's about 5.5% of scheduled ATL departures. 1.5% of system movements. Operations today are normal. Yeah, big sickout. Delta customer service is crap and I'm sure AFA will organize the flight attendants real soon.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
sojourn
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:17 am

Riiiiiight.... Having a union would've solved this problem....

Had a union been voted in in 2002, they likely would still not have a contract. First contracts take a long time to sort out.


correct me if I'm wrong, but if they had voted for a union, until they actually ratified a contract, the status quo would prevail? no?

wouldn't that mean they'd still have the same # of sick days in 2004 as in 2003?

wouldn't that also mean that they'd have their old defined benefit retirement, instead of the new improved (read that as greatly reduced) defined contribution retirement?
pushin' tin
 
MD88Captain
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:24 am

It is quite funny to read these posts about theorizing about unions and sickouts. Here's the actual scoop. DAL is drastically changing medical/sick leave benefits in January. So many FA's chose Christmas for elective medical procedures that will cost them significantly more money next year. They spend Christmas at home, get paid, and save money. This left DAL who was already understaffed on FA's even more shorthanded. Supervisors at the lower levels knew this and warned of a problem but were ignored. Then many, many of the FA's who know they will soon be furloughed called in sick for Christmas. They obviously have a screw the company and screw the customer attitude. This caused a big meltdown as scheduling had to cover something like 300 flights that were under minimum staffing. There were FA's on reserve duty sitting at home awaiting calls from scheduling, but they never were called because the meltdown overwhelmed the schedulers. They physically were unable to assign all the trips in time. In the end 33 flights were cancelled, but it was not some organized protest. It was a self-enduced perfect storm that DAL operations managers were unable to see or deal with.
 
tbear815
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:33 am

MD88Captain -

Exactly my basic point. The art and science of treating employees fairly and decently doesn't take a degree in brain surgery or rocket physics. It all comes down to being pro-active rather than reactive iin management styles. As you said, supervisors at LOWER levels saw this coming. Closer to the front line, yet not being recognized. Endemic to the overall management picture in our great country. But where is the change going to start?
 
n102daman
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:21 am

Well I don't think that this is a Union / Non-Union issue. I do think that it is a management issue that needs some sorting out. But it starts at the top and has got to trickle down. Hopefully things will change as we have been told. I think that Grindstein has some good ideas starting with improving Employee morale. Delta has prided itself on being non union and that is one of the things that has saved it from a lot of problems. I think that you will find a lot more people that work for the airline that are satisfied with the company than not (but maybe I am a bit clueless). We all know that the Airline industry is in trouble and Delta is Losing money. We will never have the days back when the DELTA FAMILY took a voluntary paycut to purchase its airline a 767. Or to take cuts in pay and hours to save the airline money to avoid layoffs. Unfortunately the Delta organization is so large now that the climate and culture has changed over the years. That is not to say that most Delta people aren't proud of their airline and glad that they have a job with a company that has a good reputation. The comments that have been made about Delta and Customer service being the last thing they care about is far from the truth. Customer service comes on a personal level and from each individual agent. That is where it needs to start. Just wanted to put my two cents in. Customer service should be a priority for not only Delta but for all airlines. Seems to me that a lot of the US airlines are lacking in it a bit. We sure could use a few lessons from some of the European Air Carriers.

Again Just My Two Cents Worth

"Fly Widget Fly"
"Service and Hospitality from the Heart." (C. E. Woolman, Delta airlines first CEO and founder.)
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:30 am

(but maybe I am a bit clueless).

No you're not clueless. Your post is spot on and you have earned my respect.


MD88Captain... thank you as well.

I'm glad there have been some balanced posts here.

[Edited 2003-12-27 01:31:53]
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:32 am

MD88:

You hit the nail on the head. In fact my parents were at the doc's office and my mother struck up a conversation with a DL flight attendant. She was having surgery on both wrists before the end of the year, due to insurance changes. She said MANY of her co-workers were doing the same. Sounds like DL created their own problem. And it is not just a DL problem...
 
iflyatldl
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:37 am

When I started at DL, it was like a big family and you were treated as such. When I left DL several years later, it was still like family- Just a DYSFUNCTIONAL one!  Big grin
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
elwood64151
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:39 am

I think this is a bad time to call-in sick en-masse. Right now, there are lots of flight crew personnel who would love to have a job at any airline. A non-union group organizing a sick-out would be a bad idea.

I think that the FAs at DL are smart enough to figure that one out!

On one hand, management should have seen something like this coming. At NJ, we weren't allowed to take vacation during Christmas and New Year's week in 2000 and 2001. I imagine that at non-union DL, there was likely a similar policy.

OTOH, those FAs who were scheduled to work should have showed up to work! I doubt any of them would have liked it much if their hair stylist or doctor just decided not to show up to work one day, inconveniencing their customers.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
WindowSeat
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:50 am


>>>Customer service should be a priority for not only Delta but for all airlines. Seems to me that a lot of the US airlines are lacking in it a bit.<<<

Not quite. The definition of quality customer service has changed over the past couple of years. With the economy tightening everyone's pockets, customers these days will fight for $10 or $20. Trust me, I deal with that everyday. They will do anything to get out of their commitment to pay. They have also simply become a much more demanding lot. The customers know they have the upper hand right now and companies will bend over backwards to accommodate them. This puts tremendous pressure on the line staff who deal with customers everyday, including gate agents, F/As and reservations staff and customer service staff. Work is just not fun anymore. It is a very serious problem hurting employee morale beyond your imagination.

My company is very similar to an airline and is in a service industry; as management it is an uphill task for us to bring back the "magic" that once kept us all close as family.

just my two cents worth...

cheers
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
WindowSeat
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:59 am


Yes the sick days is a problem too. In my company, left over sick days were paid off at the end of the year and everyone loved to receive their nice little "bonus". They would come to work, rain or shine, in good health or otherwise. This year they changed that to a "use it or lose it" policy. I have had the largest number of sick call outs in December, particularly the holiday season and honestly, I can't blame them either. We alerted corporate to this problem when the policy was first introduced, but we too were ignored. The operation is severely hurting right now and I just can't wait for the year to be over.

cheers
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:01 am

VERY well put Window Seat... An employee can only take so much, before they snap! Whether it is verbal, mental, or just get to the point that they just do not, or cannot care any longer. It is a VERY serious problem affecting MANY companies, and airlines right now. If someone dipped into your finance's and said, I will take that 15% back, what would you do?? How would you feel? Would you show up for work over the holiday's, even though that company said, you do not DESERVE holiday pay anymore, and don't expect anything from us, just be here.. Food for thought..
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:08 am

TBear815:

Thank you ever so much! Those are lovely words and lovely thoughts -- they are very much appreciated.  Smile
 
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yyz717
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:12 am

DL should demand doctor's notes from those sick FA's. Any that refuse, should be fired or disciplined. Assuming this is within the scope of the union contracts.

Anyway, these DL FA's should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.....they are not hurting upper mgmt, they are simply hurting the passengers.

Hopefully, those stranded DL passengers will make a collective or individual vow never to fly DL again until these FA's are disciplined.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
WindowSeat
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:14 am

AA777MIA,

Further to what you said, there was an interesting article a year ago in a Hospitality related magazine about a Front Desk Agent at a five-star hotel who jumped over the counter and physically assaulted a guest. The article was aptly titled "The straw that broke the camel's back". I'll check if I have it archived somewhere and give more details.

cheers

I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:20 am

YYZ717:

While I understand what you are saying, let me try and put things in perspective. "Picture it" You are a flight attendant (DL, CO, NW, any airline), and you have flown for 20 plus years.. You have knee, back, wrist, whatever problems.. Most have wrist or foot problems. Wrist from the heavy trays or stupid carts, and foot for being on your feet, and women wearing heels.. The company says to you during benefits enrollement, that we are changing your benefits in Jan, and certain procedures will not be covered or cost you more. Would you elect to have the surgery or procedures done before or after YOUR benfits change?... Food for thought...
 
Matt D
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:21 am

It's an unfortunate side effect in todays very nasty job market (not just the airlines) where the customers get caught in the middle. Unfortunately, sometimes hurting the customer is the only way to get your points across. I'm not saying it's right, but as noted above, something's got to give. Worker dissatisfaction and hatred (not just resentment, but actual hatred) of corporate greed is at an all time high. People are sick and tired and have had it with being expected to do the work of three people-assuming they even still have a job, wondreing how long their job will last, seeing their jobs shipped overseas, or to machines. making a fraction of the money they made 5 years ago, while the people with small brains, who don't even really put in an honest days work, continue to vote themselves obscene salaries and bonuses-sometimes 8 digits worth!

And then to add insult to injury-stockholders and CEO's are whining that "profits are down".

well no shit. The whole friggin' country is broke. Because they were squeezed out. Literally.

People are fed up. A worker/management revolution is coming. Soon.
 
Guest

RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:21 am

Sounds like poor planning on the part of DL management... I must say I support the flight attendants...

I flew on Christmas day (not at Delta though..) and found it one of the easiest days of the year... perhaps I just did not have high loads
 
WindowSeat
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:27 am

Yyz717,

Your post seemed to me like that of a typical bean counter, but then I looked up your profile and indeed you are one.

Anyway, these DL FA's should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.....they are not hurting upper mgmt, they are simply hurting the passengers.

You talk about the upper management and the passengers, at what point do you talk about the F/As? The reasons have been explained in earlier posts, and some by the F/As themselves. This a problem that could have been avoided, had the "upper Management" paid attention to the line supervisors. It could have been avoided if there was a mechanism in place to ensure a smooth transition from one benefits package to another. Be proactive, not reactive.

DL should demand doctor's notes from those sick FA's. Any that refuse, should be fired or disciplined.

And where is that going to get you? Employee morale will reach new lows and cause more problems in the long run. While these flight attendants knowingly or unknowlingly chose the same day to call out, they were probably well within their allowed days off quota. Measure like these will only get the Delta F/As to vote yes on the union issue.

Although I believe this particular DL's problem is a symptom of a far deeper rooted syndrome, it can only come out of this spiral if both staff and management are both receptive to each other in these crucial times. So, the only real question is, who wants to go first?

cheers

I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:30 am

"Picture it" You are a flight attendant (DL, CO, NW, any airline), and you have flown for 20 plus years.. You have knee, back, wrist, whatever problems.. Most have wrist or foot problems. Wrist from the heavy trays or stupid carts, and foot for being on your feet, and women wearing heels.. The company says to you during benefits enrollement, that we are changing your benefits in Jan, and certain procedures will not be covered or cost you more. Would you elect to have the surgery or procedures done before or after YOUR benfits change?... Food for thought...

Firstly, no one is forcing anyone to be an FA. Secondly, it is immoral (if not illegal) to call in sick when you are not sick. Thirdly, all the majors are in serious financial difficulties due in large part to labour costs...everyone has to sacrifice. Fourthly, you do NOT mess with innocent people's Christmas plans. Fifthly, if you have a beef with work rules etc....then file a grievance.

I must say I support the flight attendants...

Then tell it to the (former?) DL customers who had to send Xmas in ATL airport. Moreover, what comes around goes around...maybe you personally will get a Christmas completely ruined one day due to lazy unionized workers.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:34 am

Who says that they are not sick? If they are having surgery before their benefits change, "THEY ARE SICK".. You cannot fly with stiches, at least AA does not allow it, I would assume that most airlines are the same... And by the way, DL is a NON UNION airline. There is a SMALL portion of their pilots that are union, but everyone else is NON UNION..
 
Matt D
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:34 am

Oh but it's ok (read: moral) to throw a thousand people out of work, and then pocket the savings? (read: laid off peoples salaries going towards your $3 million yacht)

If you speak for the bean counters (and it sounds like you do), you better look in the mirror before attempting to walk the moral high ground. Many companies don't even use the term "sick" days anymore, because they know that many people are not really sick when they call in "sick". They call them "personal" days.

Hey, if you're entitled to take them, then why not?
 
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yyz717
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:35 am

You talk about the upper management and the passengers, at what point do you talk about the F/As?

There is a grievance process for the FA's. They chose to literally RUIN people's Christmas plans. Shame on these selfish pig-headed FA's.


DL should demand doctor's notes from those sick FA's. Any that refuse, should be fired or disciplined.

And where is that going to get you?


It will be a message to the FA employee base that customers' Christmas plans are not to be ruined deliberately, and that there is a mutually agreed to grievance process.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:37 am

Yyz717:

Then tell it to the (former?) DL customers who had to send Xmas in ATL airport. Moreover, what comes around goes around...maybe you personally will get a Christmas completely ruined one day due to lazy unionized workers

Errrrr.........Delta's flight attendants are non union.

Delta Air Lines used to be legendary for its outstanding treatment of its employees. Now it has simply become notorious.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:41 am

Atta girl, was waiting for you to chime in Piedmont Girl!!
 
elwood64151
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:42 am

I have to disagree with a lot of people on this forum. I know that's not unusual...

In any event, it's not just management's fault, nor is it just the employee's fault. Both groups should have worked together to take care of this problem before it got out of hand. The FAs knew they were going to be out. Management knew that benefits were changing.

Management should have set up a system where people could get these elective surgeries done without using sickdays (after all, benefits were changing).

The FAs should have said, "Look, I don't care if I'm scheduled to work. This is the only time I can have this surgery done. It can't be done next year. And I'm getting it done. Find someone else to work for me."
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
AA777MIA
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:30 am

RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:46 am

In a perfect world, I AGREE with you! Unfortunately (and I cannot speak for other companies), but at mine, it is not that easy. If you cannot be at work, it is either a sick call, or a miss trip. PERIOD.. It is not an excused surgery, etc.. I do not know this for a fact, but was told the other day, that they actually took away a fathers right to be there when his child is born as an excused absence. Again, not sure if this is fact, but would not discount it... This is the type of crap that is erroding the morale..
 
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yyz717
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:47 am

Elwood, I agree with you completely. There is definitely fault on both sides.

However, the FA's that called in sick KNEW that flights would be cancelled. They KNEW they will ruin customers' xmas plans. This act was a serious escalation of tensions & tactics aimed right at the customer over xmas. This is unconscionable.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:49 am

Ellwood,
Then the boss would say: " Dear girl, if you don´t come to work you´ll stay at home forever! There´ll be plenty of other F/A-ß´s looking for job!"

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:51 am

Piedmontgirl:
Once again, well said! Thanks for hitting one for the team! Oh, I belive the scheduling part (heads burried in the sand), but kind of deja vu in many ways from the pilots strike in 2000. They saw it coming and were not pro-active in responding to it.  Smile Sadly, pax had react. Customer service indeed lacking. Sad
Have a great evening!
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
Matt D
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:54 am

AA777MIA:

Bingo.....excellent example. Some nameless bean counter doesn't have the spine or the gonads to NOT knock you for leaving to witness the birth of your child. Yet you goddammed know as well as I do that same said bean counter wouldn't DREAM of missing the birth of his child, much less sans pay. If anyone would dare suggest that to HIM, he'll stand there and pound his chest...."Executive priviledge"...."I have an MBA"......"I'm more important than you."

Name your poison.

Like I said, this whole attitude of "We don't need you, but you need us" pomposity flowing down from the top is going to reach a climax soon if things don't start changing. And friends, it's going to get ugly.

I don't mind anyone preaching the moral high ground, but if you're going to throw stones, ya better not live in a glass house.
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
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RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:58 am

The FAs should have said, "Look, I don't care if I'm scheduled to work. This is the only time I can have this surgery done
*****

If any of you believe that this has anything to do with surgery and not just that is the xmas holidays, then you are delusional. First issue here is that Benefits were allocated ages ago, not in the last few weeks, secondly it would seem an odd time to book your surgery on xmas day. Third, you cannot just get a surgery overnight unless it is an emergency, therefore if it was surgery, then they would have known for weeks if not months, it wasnt a last minute issue. Lastly, why not call in sick as opposed to just not showing up, any one that just didn't bother to turn up doesn't deserve to have a job, and I hope they are fired.

At Continental, any sick calls during the holiday period needs to be backed up with a sick note. There is also a raffle for Superbowl tickets for those employees that do not call in sick during the holidays.

[Edited 2003-12-27 02:59:58]
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:59 am

What a bunch of lazy jerks. When they applied for the job, they were told they'd most likely have to work weekends and holidays sometime in the career.......

co
 
PiedmontGirl
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:39 am

RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:59 am

Yyz717:

However, the FA's that called in sick KNEW that flights would be cancelled. They KNEW they will ruin customers' xmas plans. This act was a serious escalation of tensions & tactics aimed right at the customer over xmas. This is unconscionable.

How did they KNOW the flights would be cancelled?

MD11Engineer:

Then the boss would say: " Dear girl, if you don´t come to work you´ll stay at home forever! There´ll be plenty of other F/A-ß´s looking for job!"

I am wondering here if some of the F/As who had surgery didn't wait until the end of the year so they could use all of the sick days for this year and the ones next year to heal up. Some kinds of surgery on wrists and feet take longer to heal than they have sick days. They have fewer days next year and knew there would be no hope of being healed up before the sick days ran out. So, they decided to use them all at once.





 
AA777MIA
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:30 am

RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:00 am

Benefits enrollment occurs in the fall usually... So what there is 3-4 months to sked the surgery, and recovery...
 
elwood64151
Posts: 2410
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 10:22 am

RE: Absent Flight Attendants Thwart Delta Ops On XMas

Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:05 am

Jan:

You're right. But if 30 or 40 FAs do it, then the manager would have to work something out.

Matt D:

I take it you've worked for a lot of very bad managers. The reality is, most managers will work with employees on something like a child's birth or a surgery. Those people are leaders. The people you describe are bueraucrats. There is a major difference.

Like I said, this whole attitude of "We don't need you, but you need us" pomposity flowing down from the top is going to reach a climax soon if things don't start changing.

If the people at the Business School I'm attending are going to be the future managers, then there will be a change. A lot of people are seeing what's happening to their parents, and they don't like it, and they want to help change it, while still making a helluva lot of money as managers.

By the way, a lot of the beneifts we now consider "sacred" are fairly new inventions. Paid sick days and company health-care plans are all creations of the latter-half of the 20th century, not in-alienable rights guaranteed to all.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.

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