Paddy
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The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:47 am

I know this is highly speculative and depends on the many possible outcomes of the current situation in Iraq, but who do you all think will be the first carriers to serve Baghdad, other than Iraqi? What might some possible routes be? Will we ever see any nonstops to the USA? Maybe JFK-Baghdad someday? Or DTW-Baghdad? Feel free to theorize as much as necessary  Nuts
 
yegbey01
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:19 am

Well,

You could easily fly to Baghdad from most Midle Eatsern cities. AMM, DAM, BEY, DXB, AUH, DOH, BAH .....as well, as FRA, LHR, CDG, AMS, IST.

At this point, these routes would do extremely well.

I don't understand why would any american carrier want to fly all the way to Baghdad. The market is certainly there, but other than the symbolic meaniong of operating flights to Baghdad from the US, in terms of profitability airlines need to make a buck (unless all flights are subsidised by the government)
 
airxliban
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:41 am

Lebanese businessmen taking advantage of the situation in iraq are said to outnumber the US troops...the fastest way to get to baghdad from beirut would be to fly into Amman and drive from there.

I could see beirut being amongst the first cities in the middle east with a need for air service to Iraq.

Eventually there will be flights to the USA from Iraq. But the situation there will have to improve considerably. I can just see it now: American Airlines would like to announce the departure of flight 9623 to Bagg-dad. Then you see an AA triple seven at ex-Saddam International.

The future of baghdad airport will obviously depend on the future of Iraq and the role that the US takes in its reconstruction.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
AlitaliaORD
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:26 pm

actually, Northwest has already submitted a request it would like to fly to Baghdad, i remember hearing the story on a radio station here in Chicago, it would fly from DTW to AMS then continue to Baghdad.
Joy To The World, All The Boys and Girls, Joy to the Fishes in the Deep Blue Sea, Joy to You and Me
 
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STT757
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:43 pm

Iraqi Airways when they are "up to speed" with their operations will eventually have a flight to JFK and possibly IAD and DTW, via LHR or another European destination.

First things first for the "New" Iraqi Airways..

Get operations going to.. (within the next 12-24 months)

Amman, Cairo, Doha, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Riyadh, Jeddah, Kuwait City, Tehran (?..), Beirut, Istanbul.

Then expand to (within the next 24-48 months)

Mumbai, Dehli, London Heathrow, Paris Charles De Gaulle, Frankfurt, Rome, Madrid, Geneva, Zurich, Moscow

Then.. (within the next 3-5 years)

NY JFK, Washington Dulles, Toronto, Detroit, Los Angeles (?.)

Finally Asia within 7 years

China, Jakarta, Japan?..

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:11 pm

Here's a photo which probably shows most of the Iraqi Airways fleet, there are probably a few others in Basra, Mosul or even outside the Country.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=123190

If they can get these aircraft going they would be in pretty good shape, none have any major structural damage. They just need to have their engines put back on and they need a good cleaning inside and out, Im sure they can find plenty of spare parts in the boneyards for the 727s and the 737-200.

They can probably even find parts for the 747-SP, which would be perfect to restore flights to London.

The 5 727s can be utilized on flights to Amman, Cairo, Doha, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Riyadh, Jeddah, Kuwait City, Beirut, Istanbul.

The 737-200 can be used for flights from Baghdad to Basra and Mosul.

There are plenty of stored 727s and 737-200s that are sitting in the boneyards that can be brought out to add addtional lift when things start taking off, they can worry about more modern 737NGs or A320s later.

The Iraqi Airways Ilyushins also are in relatively good shape, perfect to launch a cargo operation to Europe etc..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
nycfuturepilot
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:20 pm

I know that Richard Branson (owner of Virgin) announced last spring that he wanted schedualed service to Baghdad. I dont know if he still wants it.
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
carduelis
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:39 pm

Just another subject that's been discussed to death . . .

British Airways has rights to operate from London to Baghdad, just as it did previously for over 60 years before the Gulf situation.

They are just waiting for the OK on safety.
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
AirGAbon
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:16 pm

US airlines are afraid of flying to Lagos (LOS), Nigeria, beacuse of insecurity... So imagine in Baghdad...
They will wait for a long time !!
 
VSGirl
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:27 pm

Its true, British Airways will, as soon as it’s safe, operate flights to Baghdad.

Maybe with a Boeing 767 or maybe bigger  Smile

Happy New Year

Kimberly.
 
Mohan
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:15 pm

When I was in Baghdad befor the War this year. There was an Iraqi Airways office on Sadoon Street. This office had been turned into a business centre for making international calls

They had a route map and what was surprising to note on it was that Iraqi Airways used to fly to Rio ............

If you remember capture of Saddam International airport....the 747sp was destroyed so were couple of other Iraqi Air ways aircraft. There are a couple of 727's parked @ Queen Alia Intl, Airport Amman.

Gulf Air is scheduled to fly to Basrah Shortly

17 airlines including LOT, Royal Jordanian, EK etc have been given clearence to fly to BGW

Currently only CPA (Coallition Provisional Authority) is operating daily flights to Amman (1000USD return) and you can fly with them only if you are hooked up

DHL was operating till a bit ago...

RJ could any day start flights (4 times a week on the 320) as they did previously prior to the war

I heard somewhere that there was an Iraqi Airways order for Airbus & Gulf War happenned ...any one has info on that....some advance was paid


They will surely need a new fleet........all boeing obviously all their planes have been stripped inside for parts
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:55 pm

United airlines has also stated that they too would like to fly to Baghdad under a codeshare flight with Lufthansa.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
Guest

RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:03 pm

German LTU wanted to fly to Kabul but crews denied flying. I can imagine that it's more dangerous flying to Bagdad than Kabul right now.

By the way: Jeff, what are you talking about God and Jesus? That's part of your statement or just christian philosophy? Let's pray to allah too then?
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:27 pm

As this is to some 66% a rather political thread I 'rob' it and take it to http://forums.arabia.com to continue the discussion there.
 
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STT757
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:35 am

"the 747sp was destroyed"

Iraqi Airways has two 747Sp's, this one at Baghdad International is in good condition. All that is needed is to have the engines put back and a thorough washing inside and out, the photos are from July 2003.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=123195

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=123194

The other 747Sp is supposedly stored in Amman, from what I could research.

I found one listing of Iraqi Airways owning a couple 747-200s, can anyone confirm this?..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
BN747
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:13 am

wow...talk about crusty! That thing is gonna need a swimming pool of Mr. Clean to get all that grit and grime outta that thing!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:18 am

Expect a parade of private jets belonging to the US corporations that will get all the no bid/restricted bid contracts to 'rebuild' Iraq. Will be a great place to spot G-Vs of the Fortune 500, if you can convince the 18 year old Okie security guard that your Nikon is not a rocket launcher. While there, be sure to check out the duty free, but excuse the lack of goods for sale, it was apparently looted by the invading US troops.
 
BN747
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:53 am

Baghdad Intl will become the FRA of the Middle East. Now that the US is in....they ain't leaving. The Airport will mirror FRA -- a USAF military air force base on one-side and commercial ops on the other. Iraqi will be resurrected and plenty of assistance from either the US gov't or them prodding AA or someone to lend a fleet assist. The future Iraqi fleet is currently in a US desrt somewhere. Once it takes form it'll become the one largest airlines from the region. 777s (off the line or ex-UAs from someone), 744s,76s and 737s sorry..but their will be no buses in the carriers future! Within 5-10 years they'll become the region's economic powerhouse. JFK,DTW and IAD should be 1st up for intercontinental svcs.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:10 am

I think that before too long Baghdad International will be a very busy airport. There are airplanes parked in the the desert with a lot of life left in them that could be the basis for a fleet.

 
airbrasil
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:41 am

Iraqi Airwyas used to fly to Rio de Janeiro GIG on Sunday from baghdad-lisbon-Rio.. I remember seen the 707 and some times 747-200 in Rio all day, as the acft arrived in the morning and would leave at night.. DanielIraqi Airwyas used to fly to Rio de Janeiro GIG on Sunday from baghdad-lisbon-Rio.. I remember seen the 707 and some times 747-200 in Rio all day, as the acft arrived in the morning and would leave at night.. Daniel


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel R Carneiro



 
Cessnapimp
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:57 am

As trivial as it sounds, the paint job on the 747 of the above photo is absolutely fantastic. Nice waves on the fuselage, nice colour that stands out but being nonetheless serious at the same time. Très "Jet-Set". Seems like this operation was once, not so long ago a proud outfit. True shame for Iraquis that had commerce and good lives going before sanctions and the war with Iran ruined almost everything. Not to mention the total brain drain of the closing of a once well respected university in Baghdad.

Shame... hope it all changes soon!
 
cha747
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:04 pm

Did Pan Am ever fly to Baghdad? Or TWA? If so, then perhaps DL or AA respectively would be natural segues into returning US aircraft to Baghdad. Perhaps DL from CDG and AA from LHR???

As far as Iraqi Airways is concerned...I wouldn't expect it to be a powerhouse...just your typical gulf carrier. And if the US taxpayer has to foot the bill to repair Iraqi Airways, I'll be thoroughly disgusted...especially when UA and other domestic carriers are retiring a/c and employees.

Just my two cents  Wink/being sarcastic
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
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STT757
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:47 pm

Here's three Iraqi Airways 727-200s at Amman, these plus the five at Baghdad International all look to be in relatively good condition and can be returned to service.


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hans Kruger



Eight 727-200s is a good start, that would allow flights to Amman, Cairo, Doha, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Riyadh, Jeddah, Kuwait City, Beirut, Istanbul, Athens etc..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ouboy79
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:26 pm

Air Transport Int'l (part of BAX Global) received approval a few months ago to fly to Baghdad 3 times per week from the States. The flights will leave from TOL and make a fuel stop in AMS. No idea on the start up date.
 
airmale
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:06 am

LTU did operate Dusseldorf-Kabul for sometime before quitting due to security concerns.

IA would also serve destinations in Pakistan and India, as they used to in the past.
.....up there with the best!
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:26 am

StefanDotDe,

I just try and spread some joy to people.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
airworthy
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:38 am

I read on the CPA website that Iraqi Airways should be up and running shortly. They are setting up the ILS systems now, and they will receive weather and ATC from the US military, and then switch over to an all Iraqi ATC system in the future.
 
Paddy
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RE: The Future Of Baghdad International

Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:48 am

BN747:
Baghdad Intl will become the FRA of the Middle East. Now that the US is in....they ain't leaving. The Airport will mirror FRA -- a USAF military air force base on one-side and commercial ops on the other. Iraqi will be resurrected and plenty of assistance from either the US gov't or them prodding AA or someone to lend a fleet assist. The future Iraqi fleet is currently in a US desrt somewhere. Once it takes form it'll become the one largest airlines from the region. 777s (off the line or ex-UAs from someone), 744s,76s and 737s sorry..but their will be no buses in the carriers future! Within 5-10 years they'll become the region's economic powerhouse. JFK,DTW and IAD should be 1st up for intercontinental svcs.

Wow, that's quite an optimistic prediction. It makes quite a few assumptions too. Given the way things are going over there right now, I don't see any airport in Iraq turning into anything like FRA anytime soon. Also, I certainly hope we don't establish a permanent airforce base there. The sooner our military is out of Iraq the better. It would almost be better for Iraq to turn into another Iran than for the US to impose a permanent military presence there. Ok, that's a bit of an exaggeration to make a point, but the last thing we need is to force the Iraqi people to become a western nation too quickly. We don't need to give anymore credence to the Arab world's partially accurate image of the USA as a neo-colonialist empire. I too would love to see Iraq join the western world but not by imposing military force on them any longer than is necessary.

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