azmd80
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Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:45 am

On many magazine, and also on the airbus site, still some times ago, I'we red about new variant of the A 330. What's about a 330 -500/600, with longer range and streched fuselage? Couldn't it fill the gaap in comparison with the new improved version of the B777.
And what about a shortest version, tha could replace A 300 and 310, officilay still in production, but otu of the passeger market?
 
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yyz717
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:51 am

Airbus offered a shrunken 330 dubbed the 330-500 to Singapore Airlines. Similarly, Boeing offered a 777 shrink to Singapore. SQ was not interested in either.

The problem with a further 330 shrink is that it would be a heavy (and hence inefficient) aircraft as an A300/310 replacement. For this reason, shrinks tend not to do well; witness the 747SP, 737-600, MD-87, A318, L1011-500.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:52 am

And what about a shortest version, tha could replace A 300 and 310, officilay still in production

Airbus has been there, tried that, and failed.

Both SQ and LH (the main targets) rejected the proposed A330-500
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QantasA332
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:55 am

There are always rumours about these things, and some are bound to be true. One I'd particularly like to see would be a shorter version A330, somewhere between A320 family and A330-200/300 a/c in terms of PAX capacity and range, for a 767 replacement...

qantasA332
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:00 am

For this reason, shrinks tend not to do well

Airbus has been very successful with two shrinks (A319 and A332)... but they've tried to push their luck twice on each airframe (A318 and A335), and basically failed* both times.


*the A318 at this point, cannot be accurately referred to as a failure.... though its sales have been abysmal considering Airbus' projections.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
azmd80
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:03 am

the 330- 500 was a schrinked version not a stretched one?

bie
 
VSGirl
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:04 am

A number of British charter airlines would like to see a replacement for the Boeing 767 sized aircraft. One of them would be Britannia Airways... Even though Boeing has the B753 Britannia as with some other airlines do not see this as a replacement for the B762...

Kimberly.
 
caribb
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:24 am

The 7E7 is suppose to be the 757/767 replacement.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:27 am

the 330- 500 was a schrinked version not a stretched one?

It was never officially launched, only proposed... but yes, should the airlines have been interested, the A335 would have been smaller than the A332 is now.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
B727-200
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:32 am


As they essentially have the same fuselage cross-section and design, wouldn't a shrunken A330 just be like an A300/A310 with a different wing?

B727-200.

 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:37 am

wouldn't a shrunken A330 just be like an A300/A310 with a different wing

nope, too heavy for the missions they planned it.

That's why the 771 and 771X concepts never worked... same for the relative failure of the 736, A318, M87, 747SP, L15, etc
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
azmd80
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:13 pm

I'we red about a streched version of A330, with a range like 330-300 and a fuselage like 340-500. It could be used on route that doesn't need the range of new 340 500/600 but are very busy.

 
trent900
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:17 am

I'm sure Airbus could quite easily modernize the A300/310 to be a suitable replacement of itself; updated wing, new engines, f-b-w etc, etc. In my opinion the A300 is still a lovely aircraft to fly in.

Trent.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:22 am

There is a A300/A310/757/767 replacement coming. Its currently being called the Boeing 7E7.


CanadianNorth
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trent900
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:30 am

Very true. The 7E7 is going to be a very interesting aircraft.

But could Airbus maybe tweak a new version of the A300 to be just as efficient?

Trent.
 
gigneil
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:07 am

But could Airbus maybe tweak a new version of the A300 to be just as efficient?

They think they could.

N
 
VivaGunners
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:19 am

Trent got reason, Airbus could and should launch
A300 next-generation. Many airlines wouold use that plane, think about LH TG KE JL CI and chinese carriers. That would be the prerfect plane for them all.

Cheers.
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AvObserver
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:51 pm

"But could Airbus maybe tweak a new version of the A300 to be just as efficient? (as the 7E7)" "They think they could."

I seriously doubt they really think this, though they may be saying it to deflect Boeing claims for the 7E7. As with the A332 to the long-range 7E7 Stretch, it'll be tons heavier than the 7E7 Short-Range. Giving it advanced engines will help but not enough. Replacing much of its' existing alloy structure with composites, as well as redoing the wing will help a lot more but be such a major redesign, it would probably be more cost-effective to go to a brand new airplane that could truly compete on even terms with the 7E7. I don't know why this argument of 'tweaking' existing variants always comes up; as with Boeing's lame claims for its' aborted 747X vs. the all-new A380, no existing A300/330 can be as efficient as the 7E7 if THAT airplane meets Boeing claims. They may get closer with new engines but not a match. It's typical manufacturer's counter-marketing claims, that's all. I'm sure Airbus WILL field an all-new, largely composite-bodied competitor to replace the A300/310 and perhaps also the A332 in markets targeted by the 7E7 as soon as they can, after the A380 overhead is behind them. The recent Aviation Week article, "Boeing Bets On Long Haul", said Airbus's next goal is to develop a successor to the A300-600R in the 300 seat category to enter service no earlier than 2012. Though Airbus says no A330 replacement is coming, I'm not sure I buy that. To admit that would devalue the current aircraft in the market. Believe me, Airbus won't waste time and money on a half-hearted effort.

 
azmd80
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:18 pm

I fly one times on a TAP A310 from LIS to SAL, and one times LH from FRA to Berlin, I don't remember which airport.
I find this planes very confortable and not "old". I think is very similar (not only the fuselage that is the same, but also the sound, the interior, seat, comfort at all) to new 330 series.
It's anly lack in PVT but many airlines doesn't put it on economy class on new planes too.
I think it can be a grat task to improve and modernze this aircraft. The prodiction line is still opened, so it could be also not too expansive.
 
LHR001
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:29 pm

Having been a crew member and worked on the A310, A300, and 777... Hands down the A310 is the best! The size is perfect for short hops or low-demand long haul services. If I recall correctly Aerolineas Argentinas used the A310 nonstop from EZE-JFK back in the late 1990's. Royal Jordanian used it from New York to Amsteram and many other airlines as well have found the aircraft to be efficient and very cost effective. The design makes for a splendid First and Business class cabin. The 777 is very nice and spacious... However, it is very, very expensive in comparisson to the current A340 and A330 variants being offered. Dont forget that non of the U.S. airlines have made use of the 777-300 as well! This variant seems to be only effective in the Middle East and Asia!


LHR001
 
dutchjet
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:40 pm

The A330-500 shrink project, to replace the A300/310, was actually several projects; first, a simple shrink of the A332 was offered - that proposal was quickly rejected by LH as the result was a super long range aircraft and LH was far more interested in a large capacity aircraft to fly between FRA and MUN. Next, the A330 cockpit was merged with the A300, and of course some systems updated to the new A330 standard (there were other issues, nothing is that simple) but SQ was totally underwhelmed by the result. A final approach was a slightly shortened A332 fuselage with a new wing (based on the older A300 design) and new engines....according to rumor, this proposal almost got off the ground but its timing was wrong as the airline industry was already suffering its major downturn and SQ had already extended its 777 program to replace A310s.

Airbus will come up with something at some point to bridge the gap between the A321 and the A332, especially for shorter haul markets, as this segment may become important as pax numbers rise and frequency cannot be increased due to airport slot limitations. I still think that the solution will be a wide-body type......Boeing's very good and very economical 753, which should have done better in the market place and could have replaced older large airliners on shorter-haul routes, was not successful due to its single aisle, long fuselage layout....passengers (especially those in Asia) prefer high capacity aircraft to be widebody and there was much concern about the time it takes to unload/load a narrow body airliner.
 
azmd80
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RE: Airbus 330 New Variant

Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:57 pm

Todaj on JP4, an italian aviation magazine, I've red that there are rumors from Airbus to launch the A30X or A305 program.
It schuld be an improved version (fly by Wire, composite , new engine ) of the 300- 310 and not a short 330.

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