yanksn4
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A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:12 am


For the last 50 years, Lga and Jfk have handled new york's air traffic. (excluding Ewr) What I am wondering is will there ever be a new airport in New York since these two have aged and in my mind have become outdated.

Maybe tearing down either one to make room for an airport that would handle both traffic?
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:15 am

Dont forget about Stewart and Albany as well as Buffalo
No Vueling No Party
 
yanksn4
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:18 am


alitaliaMD11, when I mean NY, I mean NYC, not upstate NY.
2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
 
Critter_592
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:26 am

JFK...outdated?

And the airspace is already too crowded. The ATC'ers would probably quit if another airport was built up there. I think NYC has the perfect setup with their airports. JFK for mainly international traffic, and LGA for domestic. See how AAL can have their intl traffic at JFK and probably save a little money by fliying their smaller traffic into LGA.

Would the airlines benefit from lets say a combined airport with JFK and LGA traffic? As a controller, imagine 200 arrivals per hour during rush hour!
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:27 am

I wasn't aware BUF was a viable airport for NYC travel, Alitalia. That'd be one hell of a taxi bill!  Laugh out loud

Seriously though, to address Yanksn4's points, I'm not sure how LGA and JFK are outdated. They may both be more than a half-century old but that doesn't mean they are outdated. JFK's in the middle of a modernization process it would seem and my guess would be that LGA wouldn't be too far behind it. You mention clearing land for a new airport, where would you do it? If you cleared JFK you're clearing away quite a large investment that's been recently made. If you cleared LGA you're still bound by the basic structural problems that LGA faces now - a weight-limited runway due to the piers.
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jetbluefan1
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:33 am

IMO, NYC doesn't need any new airports. The US terminal at LGA is fairly new and spacious. JFK has a load of construction - enw AA terminal, perhaps a new B6 terminal behind T5. There really is no need for another airport. JFK isn't crowded at all - T5 is wide open with lots of gate space. If anything, some domestic flights from LaGuardia should be shifted to JFK. LaGuardia has absolutely no more room for expansion - unless the AA cargo ramps are knocked down.

Don't forget that there's also White Plains and Islip - but who'd fly out of those airports when LGA, JFK and EWR are an arm's length away?

JetBluefan1
 
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STT757
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:38 am

JFK is a ghost town for most of the day, and they just spent $9.3 Billion on new terminals, Air Train etc..

Why is it outdated?..

And no there will be no more NYC airports built.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
rjpieces
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:45 am

When JFK, LGA, and EWR become fully saturated there are still lots of airports outside NYC such is Islip and Stewart. A high speed rail could be built to either of those at some point in the future.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
tekelberry
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 4:37 am

Excluding EWR? EWR is considered a NYC airport. When you search for flights to NYC, it includes LGA, JFK, EWR, & HPN. Besides for the fact that NYC doesn't need a new airport, where would a new one fit?
 
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STT757
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 4:51 am

The last serious proposal for a new commercial airport in the NYC area was a Port Authority plan to build a new airport in the great Swamp of New Jersey in Morris County, that was 30 years ago.

After that there was a plan in the Early 1990s to convert McGuire AFB in New Jersey to a large commercial airport for package and cargo carriers such as FedEx, UPS etc should the BRAC commitee go ahead with their plans to close McGuire.

Luckily they reversed themselves and instead of closing McGuire AFB the BRAC committee recommended it be expanded, several units were transfered between 1992 and 1994 to McGuire from places such as Plattsburgh AFB (now closed), Rome/Griffis AFB (now closed) and Barksdale AFB in Lousianna.

McGuire is now home to the Air Mobility Command, it's one of two bases that hosts KC-10s. McGuire has 30 (or so) KC-10s, in addition starting in '04 the McGuire C-141 units will begin transfering to brand new C-17s. The NJANG is also hosted at McGuire, they operate two dozen KC-135Es.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
toltommy
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 5:19 am

You'll probably see it fragment more as time goes on. EWR and JFK will continue to be the major Int'l airports, LGA will continue to be the Business airport. But I think you'll see a lot of leisure traffic move to the peripheral airports. ISP, SWF, HPN for now, TTN and ACY as demand rises in Jersey...
 
prosa
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 5:23 am

The last serious proposal for a new commercial airport in the NYC area was a Port Authority plan to build a new airport in the great Swamp of New Jersey in Morris County, that was 30 years ago.

I sort of recall a plan to build a new commercial airport - called a "jetport" - somewhere in southern Connecticut. It was around the late 1960's or early 1970's IIRC.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
flyguy1
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 6:15 am

STT:
JFK will handle over 30 million passengers this year, and most likely have the most passengers of all 3 NYC area airports. I would not call this a "ghost town".
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
rjpieces
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 6:21 am

He is just a EWR supporter looking for mean JFK labels  Smile

What he means though is that JFK is pretty quiet during from about 10AM-2PM. From 3PM on, all of the European flights start arriving and it becomes packed.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 6:22 am

The NYC area multiple-airport model works quite well as it is, because the region is so big, and home to so many people, no one really is all that far from an airport. EWR services the NJ and Rockland suburbs west of the city, and people that live in Manhattan and Staten Island, LGA is closest to Manhattan and convenient to those living in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx, JFK serves all those areas plus the Long Island suburbs to the east, and then of course there is HPN for those north of the city, in the Westchester and Connecticut suburbs.
 
ramerinianair
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 6:29 am

There is no Room. If you were to tear down a NY airport, where would all the air traffic from that airport go. JFK is very busy and we all know how bad the ques for take-off at LGA can be. The only solution is to either build an airport ferther away from NYC or temporarily move most of the LGA traffic to EWR and JFK for a while so you can fill more land in by Flushing Bay. There would be more land and therefore more room for expansion. The only problem is that they better re-build the airport in record time because when peak-time hits NYC, Air Travel with only 1 airport and EWR will be very, very bad.
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dutchjet
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 6:32 am

There have been many plans over the years......including dedicated Cargo Airports allowing JFK/EWR/LGA to only serve passenger flights....obviously was not practical and never happened.

LGA has been improved and JFK and EWR expanded, so there is not a great need for another airport.......thanks to Southwest, Islip is now getting service after being ignored for years, White Plains has seen some expansion although enviornmental and neighbor issues (real expensive suburbs that have no interest in jets flying over their lawns and swimming pools!) prevent real growth, and Stewart in Newburgh is the big hope. When Stewart opened its pax terminal in the early 1990s, several carriers moved in big time (AA had mainline jet service [727-100, -200] service 3 times per day to RDU (it was a hub then) and ORD, I believe that DL had 2 or 3 mainline flights to ATL, one airline (that no longer exists, cant remember who, had Florida service) etc. Most of that service died out - the airport never really caught on, it is about 75 miles north of NYC, but curiously it was also ignored by those living in NYC's northern suburbs. Maybe its time to give SWF another try, a low-cost carrier could make it work I think.
 
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STT757
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:04 am

Besides T-6 and maybe T8/9 JFK is indeed a "ghost town" during the day, especially T-4 and T-1.

By that I mean since there's almost no Domestic traffic save B6 and AA the rest of the airport is only really active during the Early-late Evening hours during International Departure banks.

"JFK will handle over 30 million passengers this year, and most likely have the most passengers of all 3 NYC area airports"

This is true but they will serve only a couple thousand more passengers this year than EWR, also EWR handles more aircraft movements than JFK.

Meaning more flights from EWR, but bigger planes from JFK.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:30 am

"so you can fill more land in by Flushing Bay"

No way!

The NIMBY's got a Federal Court to block attempts to build the "West Way" because of some fish that lives underneath the old Central Rail Road Piers on the West Side, filling in Flushing bay is not realistic in a City like NY.

If Heathrow can handle nearly twice as many passengers a year as JFK with one less runway then there is plenty of room for expansion, even Newark airport has land where two more runways could be built.

Before they would ever build a new airport they would build another runway or two at both EWR and JFK for a fraction of the cost of building an entirely new airport, LGA is in too tight a corner between Rikers Island and nearby neighborhoods to ever be expanded.

Besides the NIMBYs surrounding the airport you have the Mets who already have to tolerate the noise and the US Open, and forget about trying to aquire Rikers Island for expansion.

You think trying to build a new runway is hard, try re-locating the largest "jail" in the World. The only places where Rikers could be relocated would be Governor's Island (does not fit redevelopment plans) or Staten Island, and Staten Island would riot and finally succeed from the City if they tried to move the City's jail to the bourough who for decades had to put up with the "city's" garbage.

At JFK another runway could be built where the East cargo buildings are located to the East of 13L, the mostly older cargo buildings could easily be relocated to the West Side of the Airport.

At EWR another 9,000 ft runway could be built on vacant land between the NEC and Rts 1 and 9, the only real obstacle is the Anheisure Bush brewery which would have to be moved. Also 22 L could easily be moved across the Turnpike on land now occupied by Conrail Shared Assets and used as a yard, the Port Newark Rail yard could easily be relocated and the "new" 22L could be far enough from 22R to allow for simultanous landings and take offs.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
deltairlines
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RE: A New Airport In NY?

Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:46 am

I think the existing airside facilities are fine for New York right now and for the years to come. I think that it is the landside parts of these airports that would be able to increase capacity. I don't know how much it would cost, but if a train was built from LGA to JFK, then I think that passenger capacity could rise since you could have a situation where passengers can transfer between the two airports for connecting flights. For example, a DL passenger would be able to fly for example CAE-LGA(transfer to train to JFK)/JFK-ATH. Currently, this trip takes quite a while with having to recheck everything, take a cab between the airports, etc. If it could be done so that the passenger just has to check in at CAE and everything is set (no need to reclaim luggage at NYC), then connecting traffic would undoubtedly rise. There is the potential for this to happen between JFK and EWR already, as the JFK AirTrain supposedly could work on the LIRR rails. All they would need to do is strap some pantographs on those trains (they need electric trains to go through the Hudson Tubes) and they could do an easy JFK-EWR ride. This is where I think the most growth potential lies in the New York region...any ideas/comments/critiques would be appreciated.

Jeff

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