RiverVisualNYC
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The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:26 am

With the US goverment detaining, turning around, intercepting with fighters and ordering the cancellation of many international flights in the last week, I think Americans will increasingly opt to stay home and foreigners will opt to spend their vacations (and their money) elsewhere, putting the final nail in the coffin of international tourism at least outbound from and probably also inbound to the USA. This will obviously result in a lack of business for international airlines, as the passenger numbers lost won't be made up by business and other non-discretionary travelers. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 
trident2e
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:27 am

I totally agree. It's a real shame, but recent events have certainly put me off travelling to the USA. As I said in another post here, it's not the threat of terrorism that will keep me and many others away from the USA but the way it is being addressed in the US.
 
united4ever
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:31 am

I beg to differ. The first gulf war did not have a permanent effect, and anyway, aren't the business travellers the real bread and butter for the international airlines serving the USA?

Mike
 
dutchjet
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:40 am

Lets hope that these situations are over quickly = something is up at the moment and we may have a few more difficult days (or even weeks) but I would not expect that US bound flights arriving from European capitals being turned around, cancelled, escorted or so closely scrutinized will become a regular thing.

The good news is that the travelling public, in general, has a short memory span and travel recovers after a specific event. Also, the recent incidents (ie, AF and BA) may have caused inconvenience to some passengers and cost some revenue, but passengers (especially US pax) have some indication that the airline security system is working and there is more to it than asking senior citizens to remove their shoes during the security screening.

Lets hope that the situation calms down as we enter the new year.
 
jcs17
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:49 am

Wow, what a ridiculous post. Where do I begin?

With the US goverment detaining, turning around, intercepting with fighters and ordering the cancellation of many international flights in the last week, I think Americans will increasingly opt to stay home and foreigners will opt to spend their vacations (and their money) elsewhere, putting the final nail in the coffin of international tourism at least outbound from and probably also inbound to the USA

I'm sure that a 747-400 being brought down by terrorists in a major city wouldn't have a huge impact on tourism? I'm sure people would flock to the airport for travel if that was to happen. And oh, the airline industry, if that was to happen would be profitible instantly. I'm sure foreign tourists would love to travel to America after that....and Americans, wow, they'd be hopping on Air France flights to Paris in an instant. Dude, you live in a dream world.

This will obviously result in a lack of business for international airlines, as the passenger numbers lost won't be made up by business and other non-discretionary travelers. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

So if a few extremists blow up a plane, business will get BETTER? Your reasoning is ridiculous.

The terrorists are out there. They are out to kill Americans, and in the process kill the American airline industry. I am glad the government is taking these steps to prevent terrorist attacks using aviation, and if it temporarily puts a dent in tourism...so be it. The REWARD OUTWEIGHS THE RISK

America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
bistro1200
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:53 am

It's as if some countries don't appreciate the concerns that we have in the US, or take such threats seriously. "The way it is being addressed" in the US is that we are ensuring our security as stated in the Constitution. There really isn't an opportunity to have a summit with UBL and tell him to knock it off.

Muslim extremists are attempting to destroy the US by any means they can, we have to defend against that threat. What other way can it "be addressed?"

As a seasoned international traveller since 9/11, I think that a *vast* number of people will come and go into the US with no problems. Keep it in focus here folks: We had 6 Air France cancellations, and 2 British Airways cancellations, all done by their respective governments. Consider the hundreds of Atlantic crossings made each day, and we are talking a miniscule number. If there were no credible threats I think France would tell the US such, although the US told AF if that plane flew on Christmas eve to LAX, they would refuse it entry into US airspace.

I really think this sends a message to everyone, that the US is maintaining the security of its airspace and air travel, as well as showing that security is a serious issue. I would tend to believe that better security lends itself to enhancing customer demand. Look at El Al as an example, as they are much more of a target and yet they continue to fly with nary an incident.
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
trident2e
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:55 am

Jcs17 - none of the other posters under this thread resorted to personal attack, so why did yours? Having a different opinion to others is a good thing if it encourages debate, but surely others have the right to express their views without being accused of being ridiculous.
 
jcs17
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:56 am

The "Death of Discretionary International Travel?" People in countries where a visa is not needed to enter the US can board a plane on a moments notice and travel here.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
jcs17
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:57 am

Trident2E, because his reasoning was absurd--and there was no personal attack. The post was harsh, but it was harsh on the arguement he made.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
777236ER
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:08 am

People in countries where a visa is not needed to enter the US can board a plane on a moments notice and travel here.

Unless your name is on The List.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
airtrainer
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:12 am

This is my own opinion but I don't fear to fly to the US. I've flown 3 times since the tragedy, felt very safe and enjoyed my flights (2 with UA, 1 with AF). I really love going there and hope it wont be the last time.
Bistro1200, you said that the cancellations were made by british and french goverments, but what could they have done with US goverment saying that they would not allow the planes to entry the US airspace ?

Jef
Life is short : eat dessert first !
 
MD88Captain
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:00 am

The planes are full, full, full. They can't all be on business.
 
artsyman
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:57 am

Maybe look at the larger picture here. Everyday there are literally tens of thousands of flights landing in the US every single day, and you think that 2 or 3 of them having a little extra security check counts for squat ?

Jeremy
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:37 am

Thanks all for your responses. It's easy to tell some of you are more political and less rational than others. The topic is related to business, not about the relative merits of one nation's security procedures vs. another, or Airbus vs. Boeing, or Bush vs. Dean or whatever. I happen to think security is a good thing, but I also happen to think most people don't like being detained for 3 hours after a 7 hour flight, or turned around in midair, or threatened by fighter jets for no clearly explicable reason. And they certainly don't want to experience this sort of thing if they have a choice NOT to. In other words, Americans would rather vacation domestically without this sort of hassle, and Europeans would rather holiday in the Med and such than come to the US and be treated as suspicious. The change in the pattern of discretionary travel has alot of business implications, including how many flights are scheduled, what type of aircraft are used, how many employees are needed, how much profit can be made, etc. It also has a spillover effect to other businesses, for example here in NYC tourist spending is down almost 20% at hotels, restaurants, gift shops, etc because of the lack of international visitors. So I'd like to hear more if you can keep the feedback fact-based and business oriented, and not political.
 
ual747den
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:45 am

People will not stop coming to the U.S., Americans will not stop traveling, and successful business people have no other choice than to do business in the U.S. your wrong im right end of story!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:54 am

I know the way the US Gov't is handling the ongoing terror situation isn't pretty, but does anyone with real knowledge of the threat and the industry see another way to handle these things? Something effective from an anti-terror standpoint, but less harsh to travellers and the industry?

We (Americans) want to be safe, but we need the tourism and commerce (not to mention strenghening ties with our friends from other nations) that international travel bring.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:55 am

As for those of you who think business travel is necessary...I work in the business travel sector and have observed firsthand the cancellation of several meetings and conferences in the last few years, many in fact replaced by videoconferencing, which aside from the security issue also saves money. Alot of what used to require physically bringing people together can now be done on the internet, whether it's a brainstorming session or technical diagnostics or whatever. There is increasingly little in the business world that requires bringing people face to face, especially as Americans get more comfortable with technology and cost-savings becomes the primary goal of the business world. Bottom line is I don't see business travel saving the US travel industry when the discretionary traveler opts to stay home.

[Edited 2004-01-02 22:57:53]
 
ObiThomas
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:05 am

I myself am proceeding with my international vacation plans next week. I will be flying from IAD on Lufthansa on Jan 9th. I worked hard to afford my vacation, and I'm reasonably confident of Lufthansa's security measures. Why cancel?

[Edited 2004-01-02 23:13:39]
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:18 am

Obi- Good for you, get out there and enjoy your trip to Europe, and when you get back be sure to tell all your friends that you traveled overseas and the worst thing that happened to you was the weakness of the dollar!!!
 
UAL747
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:22 am

I will be flying on CO 12 IAH-CDG on the 8th of Jan. I'm not cancelling my plans.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
ObiThomas
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:28 am

I'm going on to India, just passing through Frankfurt, but thanks for the encouragement, and yes the dollar is weak against the Indian Rupee too. Ouch!
 
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PA110
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:33 am

RiverVisualNYC,
Your question is definitely worth discussion, contrary to Jcs17's complete and unwarranted overreaction. In several discussions with Asian carriers, I've found that they've got an enourmous dropoff in inbound traffic to the USA because travelers from several southeast Asian countries are not getting visas approved, even within the new longer approval times. Other travelers are finding the process so onerous, they simply are not bothering and picking other destinations. This has an economic impact on both the carriers and our own tourism industry. While the world situation and political realities demand higher levels of security and vigilance, I just think it could be better handled.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:42 am

PA110-
Thanks for getting the point and adding some good info to the discussion. With the focus on European airlines the Asian situation seems to be under-discussed here. I think the net effect is that foreigners that don't have to come to the US won't, plain and simple. Would be nice to quantify that in dollars and jobs to be lost if at all possible. I can tell you I am invovled with destination management here in NYC and we just lost a Greek corporate incentive group to another destination (India) because of the perceived security hassle. I've also read that Brazil is considering fingerprinting and photographing American visitors as retaliation for the US practice that will soon be implemented. Seems to me like the 99%+ of potential foreign visitors who are not terrorists are increasingly insulted by the attitude, if not the actual policies, and they will choose to spend their time and money elsewhere in places where they are made to feel welcome and where their business is appreciated. They will also not be quick to return to the US when and if we ever get off of the Orange alert.
 
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PA110
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:50 am

If the trend continues, I suspect that the bean counters at most airlines will start to quantify the losses on US inbound markets. I'm sure that it doesn't just affect SQ and CX, the carriers with whom I spoke. UA also relies just as much on inbound sales as it does outbound. Sometimes we Americans forget that US carriers also actively solicit inbound business from overseas residents, and it isn't just the outbound American passenger occupying all those seats.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
WindowSeat
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:06 am



RiverVisualNYC, touché!

Well said. Believe it or not, the security measures are hurting business and it is showing already. I am not going to debate whether the security measures are right or wrong. They probably have to do what they have to do. But you have made an excellent case, that the discretionary traveller to the United States will take their money somewhere else due to this perceived security hassle. People with sharp reactions to your post are just not ready to accept the fact that the security alert has its effects on discretionary air travel.

Our hotel company lost a lot of business from a Swiss company which is a regular at our property (all business travellers). They have postponed a lot of visits if not cancelled them altogether. What that means for us is we're not busy as we were supposed to be, and what does that mean for our front line hourly staff?? They aren't getting enough work hours as they otherwise would.

Seems to me like the 99%+ of potential foreign visitors who are not terrorists are increasingly insulted by the attitude, if not the actual policies, and they will choose to spend their time and money elsewhere in places where they are made to feel welcome and where their business is appreciated.

Absolutely true. My friend's parents have refused to come to the US ever again. They are world travellers who have travelled five continents over the past two decades. My friend and his family will be vacationing 'down under' this year which was originally scheduled to be California.

cheers

p.s. I am keeping my trips. To London this month and to India in February.


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:08 am

PA110
Do you think there are going to be the same kinds of cancellations, diversions, detentions, and fighter-shadowing of Pacific flights as well? The focus seems to be on Europe exclusively right now, although I can't think of any particular reason why it should be. Anyway, sounds like we are in for another leg down in the tourism industry...
 
WindowSeat
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:10 am

PA110:

Sometimes we Americans forget that US carriers also actively solicit inbound business from overseas residents, and it isn't just the outbound American passenger occupying all those seats.

You should see the aggresive campaign by United in the UK. Several hard hitting television and print ads soliciting a lot of inbound travel. Even Billboards in London Underground tube stations. They were really good ads too!

cheers

I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:19 am

WindowSeat- Are you in NJ? I am in NYC, where visitor spending is down like 18%, although the number of visitors is up...What gives? Despite the weak dollar, we are getting less foreign visitors who tend to stay in upscale hotels and dine in fine restaurants, and more day-trippers who come by bus or car from other parts of the northeast and who spend practically nothing here, as well as more budget-conscious domestic tourists who want to stay in a cheap hotel and eat at Applebee's or McDonald's.

What the officials won't admit is NYC is losing its stature as a major international city destination (eg like London, Tokyo, Dubai, etc) and becoming more of a budget domestic tourist destination (like Orlando or Las Vegas)....The economic implication is huge for those of us who live and do business in NYC, since we are stuck with a premium cost structure (taxes, rent, labor, insurance, etc) but with a customer base that refuses to pay a premium for anything here.
 
Snoopy
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:29 am

The original poster got quite a lot of flak, which in my opinion was completely unjustified. I made a similar point in another thread as a result of changing my own travel habits. I won't comment on whether I think the US security services are doing a good job because in this respect it is irrelevant. The only factor is that the chances off being inconvenienced when flying to the US are far greater now than they were even just one year ago. If I do not absolutely have to go the US, I won't bother. If I can route through Canada, meet my business partners in Toronto or Vancouver instead of in Boston, New York or the West Coast, well I will. If I can use a video-conference rather than making the trip, I will.

UAL747DEN comments: "People will not stop coming to the U.S., Americans will not stop traveling, and successful business people have no other choice than to do business in the U.S. your wrong im right end of story!"

All I have to say is "get real". I don't know just who you are and what position you hold. But if you are in the airline business and that is your attitude, the US airline industry has a long way to go before it stands the chance of a recovery.

The whole trend of travel was going towards making things easier. Easier check-in, easier immigration, easier this, easier that. And now the whole machinery has gone into reverse and we have taken a 25-30 year step back. Travelers have been used to the good life, it is not something they will give up easily. We are programmed to seek the path of least resistance and travelers will change their travel habits accordingly.
 
kellmark
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Trave

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:37 am

There is a completely different attitude toward flight security by the Europeans. In November I was on a domestic flight in Europe on an MD80 and the cockpit door was open for nearly the entire flight. Anyone could have walked into it. I also later found out from a good source that this same airline does not scan their bags on international flights.

In October, I was in another European country on a domestic flight on a B737-700 and there simply was not a security checkpoint. Passengers simply checked in and boarded the flight straightaway. It reminded me of the old days in the US when anybody could walk out on the concourse and onto the airplane.

Either one of these flights could easily have been hijacked and used as a weapon.

This is why the measures are being taken for US bound flights. Even though international flights do have some sort of security, as long as the attitude towards security is what it is in Europe what can you expect the Americans to think?

Put me on a flight that has much better security, rather than the ones I flew on above. Îf it takes a few cancellations and costs a little business, so what. The alternative is far worse.

 
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PA110
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:38 am

RiverVisualNYC,
Sorry it took so long to respond... was reading one of the many anti/pro flight attendent threads going on at the moment... boy, some people really have some venom to spread today!!!

I read that TG was refusing to comply with US gov't requests to post arm guards on its US bound flights. It remains to be seen if the US gov't will hold to its threat to bar foreign carriers that don't to comply. '

However as to your question, I honestly don't know. It would seem that current intelligence is pointing toward European activity and something going on with some Mexican flights. My fear is that it will only be a matter of time before it spreads to other areas of the world.

One observation that might be ripe for a separate thread is how do airlines cope with escalating cost of security, and how to cope with vastly increased levels of security as a potential permanent part of the industry.

Have a great day. I'm outta here for a week's vacation.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:43 am

Kellmark- Names please for the airports and airlines in question? Since you felt like telling us the type of aircraft, surely you can tell us the rest. I have flown extensively in Western Europe in the last couple of years and have not seen a cockpit door left open for more than a split second (eg FA entering to serve crew or crew exiting to use the lav), and have not been in any airport that didn't have passenger inspection similar to that in a US airport. I have been in airports in the UK, Iceland, Italy, Switzerland, Spain, France, and Luxembourg, so I am wondering where exactly you have seen this?

[Edited 2004-01-03 00:44:10]
 
WindowSeat
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:46 am

Yes, I'm in NJ, and your comments about this whole business affecting us are valid. There has been a marked shift in the dynamics of the visitors to this area. Numbers may be up, but I suspect they are domestic travellers. International travel to NYC has declined drastically and the weak dollar won't do anything to bring it back.

The high-yield tourists that we are seeking are price insensitive, but are very sensitive to the increased problems and security hassles of coming to the US. One of our sister hotel properties in London is making pots of money from rich middle-eastern families (and, please, not everyone from the middle-east is a terrorist) occupying entire floors at a time. Some of these wealthy families who would routinely spend tons of money on Fifth Avenue, are now spending it in the West End, Kensington or Mayfair. There has recently been a major influx of Japanese travellers into London who are spending top money to mop up any remaining rooms left.

I'm not willing to speculate whether our numbers will rebound and when, so, some career move planning for me is in order. How much more of a direct effect can it be?

cheers




[Edited 2004-01-03 00:50:01]
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:01 am

WindowSeat- Good point, I think once people of the sort you mention decide not to come here, they will never come back. This is sadly a one-way trend. I probably know your hotels because in the past I've done alot in London and the Middle East, not to mention New Jersey!! Feel free to drop me a note sometime if you want to discuss....RV
 
wingman
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:02 am

Unlike many people on this forum, I prefer to make mistakes in the name of prevention and in some cases risk the charcaterization of "overreaction" before allowing another 9-11 to happen. It's as if these very poeple have no memories whatsoever, and also no idea of the staggering cost that terrorism costs, both in human and financial terms. If you don't like traveling to the US then please stay in your own wondrous nation. If it's a choice between preventing another 9-11 or somehow bruising your fragile ego as a super stud international traveler who expects his nad sack to be tongued upon entry, then please return your ticket and go somewhere else. How about Canada? It looks like the US, it talks like the US and guess what, they have legal reefer!!! The museums may not be Amsterdam quality but the bud and skiing are first rate mate...and no one checks you upon entry! Some people around here sound like they've had too much reefer lately. Osama's a bitch poeple and you better get used to it because this is the way it's going to be for the rest of our lives. Blame Bush all you want, the simple truth is that Osama and his little band of mass murderers planned the attack and all of its subsequent aggravation...UNDER CLINTON! Can you dig it man? Don't bogart that joint!
 
Kohflot
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:03 am

Guess what? There will always be people in this world that want to kill Americans. There always have been, there always will. So does this mean we will perpetually see flights delayed and cancelled at a whim (with evidence or not)?
Ask why..
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:11 am

Wingman
This is not a political forum, we are discussing business here, and as I have seen the more enlightened posters sharing some personal knowledge and experience, I would add that I was in the first WTC attack of 1993, working on the 63rd floor for Dean Witter Reynolds, and was 5 miles from it on 9/11. Despite my firsthand experience of terrorism, which many of you are lacking, I don't think we need to resort to political or racist name calling to have a discussion about the impact of perceived terror threats and precautions on business. Since your idol George W recently threw a bone to his Texas cattle buddies and proclaimed American beef safe to eat, why don't you go have a steak and chill out.

[Edited 2004-01-03 01:13:29]
 
WindowSeat
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:20 am


RiverVisualNYC:

This is sadly a one-way trend.

True...

I will probably start looking other jobs soon!

cheers



I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
wingman
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:23 am

You're a couple of tacos shy of a full combo platter Rivervis. One, not a signle political or racist comment exists in my above post. Two, I'm no fan of GW's but am still one of Bill's. Three, NYC is my hometown so any time you want to compare "grief notes" just let me know. My post is directed squarely at those who will use any chance they get to label the US a police state and say they no longer wnat to come here. I think I speak for most Americans when I say "then don't come", and I know I speak for myself at least when I call into question your basic comprehension skills.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:28 am

LOL let's see, what are potential jobs for former airline and travel industry employees?

manufacturing? no that's in china now....

programming/tech support/call center? that's all going to india.....

sales? sure, there are plenty of commission-only, "eat what you kill" no-
benefits sales jobs...

retail? great, that college degree is surely worth $5 an hour...

other service industries? of course, if you want to flip burgers or change bedpans...

i've got it, let's all join the military, as that's the only place you can get benefits, travel for work, and have any job security....



 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:31 am

Wingman-
Kohflot, Trident, WindowSeat, Snoopy,PA110 and others make some good points here about a business that affects the livelihood of many of us in a less than ideal economy, don't diminish that without anything to add yourself aside from the usual tirade.
Sorry about my poor comprehension, maybe it was due to all the words that you spelled improperly. Your profile says you are from SFO, so sorry for not realizing that your arrogance stems from being a New Yorker. I am glad that as a financial consultant you can keep collecting your fees and not have to worry about doing business with foreigners, but I do. So let me wish you as much luck as you wished me here in NYC, which is to say, none at all.

[Edited 2004-01-03 01:48:04]

[Edited 2004-01-03 01:49:32]
 
mog
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RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:04 pm

I don't think the drop in International travel (as different from American travel) had anything to do with 9/11, or with the subsequent cancellation of flights over the last few weeks.

Airplanes have been falling out of the skies regularly. Sometimes of their own volition, and sometimes courtesy humans. It is just that when airplanes fell over American cities, with television there in full living colour to blitz our senses with re-runs, that it takes on a larger than life picture.

Too bad, too sad, risk is inherent even to the hermit sitting inside a cave away from it all. And only those who take risks get ahead.

If anything, business worldwide seems to be going up. And business travel, too.

Maybe the value for money paradigm is impacting the 18% drop in New York's specific economy, I for one find prices in new York amongst the most unreasonable anywhere in the world, and would not hesitate to call some of the levels worse than gouging.

And we haven't even got started on how the tipping epidemic is one reason fewer people travel to the US now.

Easy to blame the 9/11 bogyeman. Why don't Americans realise that the bogeyman has now gone past, it is time to clean up the act?
 
Guest

RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:02 pm

...Easy to blame the 9/11 bogyeman. Why don't Americans realise that the bogeyman has now gone past, it is time to clean up the act?

Mog,
Did you think of all that yourself, of did you lift it from somebody elses' post on this or another website?
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:07 pm

No, his cavalier attitude toward 9/11 sounds like something he might have gotten from IndianGuy.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: The Death Of Discretionary International Travel

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:48 pm


"Airplanes have been falling out of the skies regularly"

Really???? Where and what airlines???

"Sometimes of their own volition, and sometimes courtesy humans"

So the plane just drops out of the sky because the onboard computer says it doesn't want to fly anymore???? Courtesy humans, thats a nice name for terrorists. Do they serve tea and biscuits while they hijack???

"It is just that when airplanes fell over American cities, with television there in full living colour to blitz our senses with re-runs, that it takes on a larger than life picture."

I didn't think they fell. I was under the impression that some lunatic piloted them into the towers. The TV was there in full living colour was it??? Funny about that, I'd never of thought that since NBC, ABC, CBS and probably half of Americas TV was based there that there would be a TV camera to record it.

"And we haven't even got started on how the tipping epidemic is one reason fewer people travel to the US now."

So people aren't going to travel to the US because of tipping??? What study from India State University says that???

For my two cents on the topic, if we have a general movement in air travel to the low cost, no frills model, why isn't it reasonable to expect that people will cut their discretionary spending at their destinations as well??? I'm sure there is research out there showing the spending per capita of the tourists that are coming to the cities. If you attract the budget concious travellor on your LCC airlines or even on the mainline carriers with discount fares to fill the planes, then they are going to be budget concious at their destinations as well.

I dont think this is the death of discretionary international travel, rather the US carriers will have to adjust to the fact that not as many people will fly there and those that do will be paying less than what was the norm. Recovery will come as confidence is restored and this will happen once all the new security measures are down pat and people get used to them. Once they are 2nd nature, just like carrying your passport, the tourists will come back and spend money.

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