usairways85
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:47 am

My sister is booking a trip to orlando in late April and was looking for the cheapest fares. First i recommended Jetblue but it would be too much trouble to get to JFK so then i suggested Continental or Song out of EWR. I expected Song to be much cheaper than Continental and man i was wrong.

She is leaving on a Thursday night and comming back Sunday afternoon. Song's 1 person round-trip fare was $605 compaired to Continental's 1 person round-trip fare of a much more economical $310.

So my question, how does Delta call this a LCC component of their airline? For people looking for a flight to MCO from EWR i dont think Song's IFE would entice me to pay an extra $300 for a ticket.

Also why on these specific days are the Song prices much higher than they normally are? Even at JFK the average Song ticket for these days was $260 one-way. After doing some research, i can buy a round-trip ticket for a 4-day trip next week for only $280, yet a round-trip ticket in 4 months is $605.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2856
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:59 am

Song marks their fares to the highest possible fares on quite a few days during extremely busy travel weeks. April has many extremely busy travel days itself. If you click on the "seat map" feature that Song has, you'll see that only around 5 people have booked seats on the plane. So Song doesn't use a first-come first-serve basis. They use more of a "this is an extremely busy day for us so let's make it more expensive" basis. However, if you look at JetBlue from JFK, their fares are around $114 one-way to anywhere in Florida.

I really don't like the fact that Song would do that. Who'd pay over $600 for a rt to Florida if you can get a $230 fare on B6 or $300 on CO? I really feel bad for anyone who booked a flight on Song for $600 - there are MUCH better deals out there.

JetBluefan1
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:14 am

Like jetBlueFan1 said, there is a chance that song is using a "who will pay the highest fare" tactic, while Continental doesnt really have to play that game as much.

Honestly, I was not thrilled with song, have no intention to fly them again after what they did to us (they cancelled our FLL-EWR flight for weather and later we found out they were too lazy to fly the plane in from MCO because there were not over 100 pax on the plane), and certainly dont think they much beat Continental.

Fare aside, Continental offers a much better product.

JBLU
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:05 am

JBLUA320

>>Like jetBlueFan1 said, there is a chance that song is using a "who will pay the highest fare" tactic, while Continental doesnt really have to play that game as much.<<

I don't think so...Every airline plays the "who will pay the highest fare". That, in essence, is the basis of revenue management which was pioneered by the airlines. The bottom line is you want more revenue, perhaps Song does have more high-yield passengers for those flights. The idea is that 100 pasengers paying $600 is better than 150 passengers paying $300. What's more Song may sell the rest 50 seats (otherwise empty) at $150 and make even more money. All airlines specifically target market segments that place a different "value" on each flight. They merely put a number to that value. This 'value' is different for every person. It is a very complex process using historical data, trend analysis and sometimes sheer gut. All they want is a butt in every seat for the price that each and every one is willing to pay!

cheers




[Edited 2004-01-02 22:08:02]
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:57 am

WindowSeat,

I definately do think that CO plays the game as well, I didnt say they dont.. What I said is that Continental probably doesnt have to play it as much as song, because Continental is a little bit more established.


JBLU
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:24 am

Song is really nothing more than Delta in a different livery trying to be JetBlue. I mean, a LCC isn't going to charge $600 RT for a flight from NYC to Florida (a huge travel route). Doesn't JetBlue have a cap on walk up fares, meaning that online bookings are usually always going to be cheaper than walkup?
If Song really wants to market itself as a different airline, IMHO, they need to separate themselves from Delta completely (i.e. no FF miles (even though I love them), no connections etc...) only then could Song truly be classified as a LCC.. Song just really reminds me of Delta Express in a different livery, which is in fact what it is (except for IFE).
In any case, I haven't tried them yet, so maybe the In class service brings them up, but from what I've heard I'm not expecting anything too grandiose. I want to fly them in the future, but I really haven't had an opportunity yet, and when I did (about 2 times from NYC to FLorida), B6 or other airlines were cheaper and more convenient.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:33 am

I flew Song once and frankly, wasn't impressed. It is basically Delta and nothing like JetBlue.

Frankly, fly CO out of EWR if the price is the same. Better airline overall and more convenient schedule.

 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:41 am

By the way the Song product is of a much higher quality than JetBlue from personnel to uniforms to service to inflight meal options. The Delta Sky Miles program brings Song miles above Jet Blue! In addition Song customers can easily connect unchalleneged to Continental Airlines International connections at EWR!

Song Routes from JFK-

JFK-LAS
JFK-PBI
JFK-TPA
JFK-MCO
JFK-FLL
JFK-SJU
JFK-ATL

Atlanta, is a destination that Jet Blue was unable to maintain!

Boston to Denver, sales seem to be flat and unproductive..another pull out!

In addition Song services mainline airports such as Los Angeles. They do ot serve the alternate and rather distant Long Beach.

Song will be growing more and more in the year 2004. Look for additional frequencies, routes, and destination additions. Rumored destinations for 2004 include San Francisco, Phoenix, Chicago, and Miami!

Dont forget that Song Offers these routes as well-

BOS-LAS
BOS-PBI
BOS-RSW
BOS-TPA

BDL-PBI
BDL-TPA

LGA-TPA
LGA-PBI

MCO-SJU
MCO-IAD
MCO-EWR
MCO-LAX
MCO-LAS
MCO-LGAMCO-BOS
MCO-BDL

FLL-LGA
FLL-EWR
FLL-LAX
FLL-LAS
FLL-BOS
FLL-BDL


Have you seen the articles in the following magazines that herald Song, its image, its growth, and its service?

Conde Nast Traveller
Harpers Bazaar
Town and Country
W

You see something that most fail to recognize is the fact that the Song crowd is very different from the Jet Blue crowd. Song is marketing the wealthy residents of Soho, people that buy designer fashions, and the Hamptons crowd! In addition at the Song store opening in New York City, people flocked to buy merchandise that has been specially designed for the brand. The fashion-istas in New York, and Los Angeles are all over Song! They love it.. Finally a airline that caters to their needs. Song offers the spacious 757 with leather seats, new digital programming, Kate Spade designed crewmember uniforms, Spa Cuisine... and most of all an up-scale approach to low-cost coast to coast flying!

In reference to Meals-

Breakfast-

Honey Wheat Deli Bagel $3: Available with jam and, of course, cream cheese

Stonyfield Farms Yogurt and Natursource Granola $3: Mountain Crunch Granola and yogurt

Breakfast Sandwich $6: Turkey on whole wheat croissant with cream cheese and mango jam

Lunch and Dinner-

Niman Ranch Roast Beef Fajita Wrap $8: Roast beef with grilled red pepper, organic romaine, sautéed onions, cilantro and organic cheddar cheese. Served in a jalapeno flat bread with a hint of salsa and cumin scented sour cream.

Asian Chicken Salad $7: Ginger marinated sliced chicken breast, romaine, Napa cabbage, shredded carrots, water chestnuts and mandarin oranges. Served with a sesame ginger vinaigrette.

Snacks-

Fruit and Cheese Snack $4: Triangle cut domestic cheddar and Swiss cheese wedges, with red seedless grapes and hearty crackers

Odwalla Super Protein™ Bar $3
Lunchables $3: Meat, cheese, and crackers
Pringles $2: Originals
Mrs. Field's $2: Chocolate chip cookies
Snickers $2: by M&M/Mars
Skittles $2: by M&M/Mars
Natursource $2: Unwind Trail Mix



LHR001
 
usairways85
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:51 am

LHR001: Song does not serve JFK-SJU non-stop. It's JFK-MCO-SJU.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:51 am

Here goes Mr. LONG LIVE SONG again...

Whats your gripe against jetBlue anyway?

JBLU
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2856
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:57 am

Lhr001,

Do you have that message saved on file so you can use it whenever you want to make a battle or something?

JetBluefan1
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:04 am

Jet Blue Fans.....


You dont service Newark....

- Song does!


LHR001

 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:07 am

oOoOoOoOo... I live 30 minutes from Newark, I live 90 from JFK. Big whoop. I take what works..

Quite frankly, the negligable difference in driving time from one place to the other hardly seems enough to jusitfy your immature ranting on how awful jetBlue is and how wonderful song is.

You say, "Long live song because they fly an hour closer to me!"
I say, "Long live jetBlue because they make that extra hour worthwhile."

Please... enough of your posting the entire song website everytime someone shakes the bad stick at song... We obviously all own computers, we can go there if we want. If you have nothing worthwhile to add, save the bandwidth for the people who do.

JBLU

[Edited 2004-01-03 02:09:40]
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:34 am

Long live SONG; SONG is great; LHR001 rules!!!!

Pfft, just kidding....man LHR001 if typing had a personality you'd be the most stuck-up arrogant guy at the keyboard!

Here is a bottom line: This coming from someone (myself) who hasn't flown JetBlue (though i'd like to sometime) or Song (although Delta is one of my preferred airlines for domestic US travel)....

If there was never a JetBlue there WOULD NOT be a SONG!!!! Remember, it was JetBlue, not your beloved SONG that first "glamorized" and gave glitz and spark to the LCC industry which is littered with what amounts to flying busses (don't get me wrong; I like Southwest as well; their success speaks for itself). JetBlue was the one that pioneered the live TV; JetBlue was the one with the nice leather one-class seats with the nice pitch, JetBlue was the one with the $299 walkup fares or whatever the price is...it was JetBlue it wasn't SONG...

Imitation is the HIGHEST form of flattery around. And Delta loves JetBlue. So much that they had to create their own. They put their money where their mouth is and they are hoping it works (personally I think there is more than enough of a market for both JetBlue and SONG, but time will tell....)

Ease up on the LCC's LHR001!! Got news for you: even high-up businessmen in Las Vegas real estate have time "for the little LCCs"
Go Blue!!
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:39 am

Well said, flnovak1. My thoughts exactly.

JBLU
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:42 am

Hi, I'm LHR.. I'm probably some 14 year old kid in the middle of nowhere who pretends that's I'm much older but then posts messages which reveal my true identity. Even better, I know no facts.. HAHAHAHAHA.. I fooled you all!!!!
LOL... What a weirdo, who I guess thinks he's a NYer, but knows nothing of them.
Let me refer you to LHR post #1, but even better, this time with pictures...
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1323311/

Notice how he doesn't respond when people confront him... Sounds like a guy or maybe a kid who's lived in his closet his whole life... :0
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 am

JBLUA320....good to see someone agrees with me on this guy; he knows his stuff but man is he arrogant about it. Anyhow, welcome as the second entry into my respected users list...they need to start a "disrespected users" list...
Go Blue!!
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:56 am

And welcome to mine  Smile

JBLU
 
TransCon1976
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:57 am

Very eloquent flnovak1. Personally, I hope that more people fly in the coming years and all of the airlines are profitable.

LHR001 what IS your deal? Have you ever even flown JetBlue? Even if you buy in to the "One World" concept of the legacy carriers or Delta's painted and slip-covered old 757's and prefer Song, why such a hatred for JetBlue?

Delta Air Lines is a legacy carrier and they have just repainted the same 757's that have been in use for years flying to the same destinations as their mainline product has always serviced.

If you are going to make such rabid statements about JetBlue, you might at least provide us with a personal "horror" story to justify your harsh and immature statement.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2856
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 11:08 am

Fjnovak1,

You are completely right. Without JetBlue, there would be no Song. There would probably be no Ted. B6 recognizes that immitation is the highest form of flattery, and therefore are not offended by Song, and even have a very laid back atmosphere. Did you see how cool they were when ATA made a jab at Oakland because JetBlue flies there?

JetBluefan1
 
CO737800
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:53 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 11:23 am

I would fly CO over Song or JetBlue any day
 
bigb
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:11 pm

Hey CO737800

I'm with ya on that. CO and SWA all the way. Sorry, I'm from Houston.
ETSN Baber, USN
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:43 pm

ATA flies to Oakland??? I knew they found their way to San Jose a while back but I didn't recognize they served Oakland....

I'm assuming from MDW, right?? B738 service?? with 2 or 3 daily n/s flights??

They go against Southwest on that route huh? One has to wonder how they do there... ATA certainly has their business- when i was at MDW this summer they had lots of flights going out of there from all 10 or 12 of their gates...(plus the Connection flights)

[Edited 2004-01-03 09:44:29]
Go Blue!!
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:29 pm

You guys read way to much into stuff.

If Song is marketing $600RT fares on those days, it means they've already sold out the cheaper fares. jetBlue still has cheaper seats available on those days. But that's not always the case. Believe me, when I was flying last-minute transcons, I'd check to see if jetBlue had any cheap seats, and typically, they wouldn't -- having sold them all out. So their transcon prices would be as high ($700+) as everyone else's, if not higher...

That doesn't mean that jetBlue doesn't offer an inexpensive product. But you CANNOT look at a single day or a single flight for any airline.

Steve
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2856
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sat Jan 03, 2004 11:58 pm

"If Song is marketing $600RT fares on those days, it means they've already sold out the cheaper fares."

No, it does not. Click on the seat map for some of those flights. You'll see only 5 seats booked. I seriously doubt that 5 seats already booked is going to increase the fare to $300 one-way.

"So their transcon prices would be as high ($700+) as everyone else's, if not higher..."

Sorry, but JetBlue's cap one-way fare is $299, around $320 w/taxes. Their cap fare is NOT $700 or anything near that.

"ATA flies to Oakland??? I knew they found their way to San Jose a while back but I didn't recognize they served Oakland...."

No, I didn't mean that. I meant that ATA has a radio commerical in NYC to advertise for their EWR-SFO flights. It says that ATA takes you directly into San Francisco, not Oakland. That extra part, "not Oakland", was to take a jab at JetBlue which only flies to OAK and not SFO. See what I mean?

JetBluefan1


 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:33 am

Sorry, but JetBlue's cap one-way fare is $299, around $320 w/taxes.

Sorry, but it's $399 each way. So yes, $700+ with taxes is an entirely reasonable transcon last minute r/t fare. To confirm that, I just priced OAK-FLL r/t for $768.40 with taxes all in.

Click on the seat map for some of those flights. You'll see only 5 seats booked.

Seatmaps are a poor, poor judge of what a flight is booked to. You need to see what Sabre, for example, shows as inventory. I check EWR-MCO for Sunday, April 4th, and saw:

EWR MCO 0404-0740/0404-1012 DL@2505 Y9 B9 M9 H0 Q0 K0 L0 U0 T0
EWR MCO 0404-1415/0404-1648 DL@2507 Y9 B9 M9 H6 Q6 K0 L0 U0 T0
EWR MCO 0404-1945/0404-2221 DL@2509 Y9 B9 M9 H9 Q9 K0 L0 U0 T0

I believe those are the Song flights. And all three are sold out on the four lowest fare classes. The first flight is sold out on Q and H as well.

Translation: way more than five seats have been sold.

And on other flights, (such as MCO-EWR on 4/8) there is availability in L/U/T so it's not like Song isn't making them available.

Steve
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:44 am

Oh okay, I had misunderstood.... yeah, everybody loves to jab at JetBlue- they are good at what they do and everyone wants a piece of that pie...
Go Blue!!
 
ObiThomas
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 1999 11:08 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:55 am

they [Song] cancelled our FLL-EWR flight for weather and later we found out they were too lazy to fly the plane in from MCO because there were not over 100 pax on the plane

Hmmm...Song did that to me too on IAD-MCO, putting me on an earlier flight and causing me to lose time at work. I was flying on business and hoped to put in a half day at the office before leaving.

But their service was OK and I personally wouldn't rule them out for future travel.
 
capt078
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:52 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 1:08 am

Usairways85: song is a "low-COST carrier" (lcc), which usually has low-fares. song is not a "low-FARE carrier". this category of airline does not exist; their are traditional/legacy carriers, niche carriers, and lcc's. we hear "low-fare" because the lcc's try to bill themselves as that, but as a rule, airlines are classified by their COST structure, not their fare structure. this is an important distinction. the idea here is that lcc's have lower operating costs (read: lower costs-per-available-seat-miles, or casm), and in turn pass these lower costs onto the passengers. this, however, does not mean that lcc's are always the cheapest alternative. anyone booking air travel can often find that the legacy carriers offer cheaper fares than the lcc's. i find that for leisure travel, i rarely fly southwest, jetblue, or air tran, because the advance-purchase fares are less on delta or the likes. however, it is the last-minute "walk-up" fares that make the lcc's "low-fare". walk-up to an airline the day of the flight, and you may pay $1000-2000 each way on a legacy carrier. conversely, the lcc's usually have their highest fares capped at $299 each way. thus, lcc's get pegged low-cost, because the business traveler fares are the low-cost fares.

with your anecdote about song and continental, it's likely that all but the no-advance-purchase fares on song have been booked, while the continental flights have not yet been filled. either way, the $605 round-trip fare on song is the highest fare possible on song (plus taxes, fees, etc.), while the $280 round-trip fare on continental is an advance-purchase or sale fare. continental's walk-up fare on that route would likely be in excess of $1000
 
ATA767
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:33 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:51 pm

JetBlue is a wonderful ariline and a superior product. But you have to realize that B6 has created the base level for airlines like Sond and ATA and even Southwest to build on. For example even SW is thinking of adding IFE and business class. ATA is considering business class and will offer flat fee $5.00 meal choices on most all flights.

In time, these moves by the competition will eat away at B6's market share unless they move into EWR and LGA to help with convenience. JFK is really that much more difficult to get to and with other airlines offering more of what B6 offers the buzz will fade (unless B6 also changes).

I love B6 anyway and will use them whenever possible. They have great Karma around them.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3958
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:34 pm

Lhr001-
'JFK-ATL

Atlanta, is a destination that Jet Blue was unable to maintain!'

I dont believe JetBlue ever flew JFK-ATL, they from ATL-LGB/OAK, so you cant say they failed on a market they never embarked on, correct?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
usairways85
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:37 pm

Thanks for all the replys...and this was not supposed to be Song Vs. Jetblue, which airline is better.

Capt078: I understand what you are saying but i looked up the seats available for the 3 Song flights on April 22. The earliest is indeed probably 80% full, the midday flight is only 20% full and the late flight is around 40% full. So i can understand why the early flight is at an expensive fare, but still don't understand why the later 2 flights that aren't even 50% booked yet are still just as much as the flight that is already 80% booked. Also the typically methodology for traveling to florida is to fly there in the morning and fly back in the afternoon. My sister wants to leave for florida at 8pm. I would think that since most people don't want to take a late flight to florida that the fares would be cheaper. while the fares for the early flight would be higher because people want to get to florida early in the day and just pay the money anyway, since in some cases it is better than paying for a hotel room that you don't even get to until late afternoon or night.
 
capt078
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:52 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:06 pm

USairways85: i cannot say why the fares are so high without the seats being filled. i will tell you that it is possible these seats are "sold" but not confirmed, as in they have been purchased but not specifically assigned. after several hundred flights on delta, i have become familiar with their "pseudo" seat selection process, whereby i select a seat when i book, or to receive an email confirmation saying "check-in required" or something like that rather than a seat assignment. it is also possible that the lower fare seats have not yet been "opened" for sale. this is a rising trend in the airline business, particularly among less expensive carriers.

i disagree with your assumption that the majority of florida traffic flies to florida in the morning. on the contrary, as i traffic signifcantly between boston and fort lauderdale (miami and west palm beach included), i have always found the evening flights to be more crowded. florida is obviously a leisure market, and traditionally flights to leisure destinations are in higher demand when they depart later in the day, read after work. conversely, it is the business destination that lures the morning traveler, hoping to leave early and arrive in time for the scheduled meeting.
 
capt078
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:52 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:08 pm

sorry for the above grammar mistakes, i meant to edit my message not post it.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:26 pm

The earliest is indeed probably 80% full, the midday flight is only 20% full and the late flight is around 40% full.

Where are you getting these numbers?

April 22nd, 2004, EWR-MCO:
2505: Y9 B0 M0 H0 Q0 K0 L0 U0 T0
2507: Y9 B0 M0 H0 Q0 K0 L0 U0 T0
2509: Y9 B0 M0 H0 Q0 K0 L0 U0 T0

That's not 20% or 40% sold. Again, I stress, YOU CANNOT USE SEATMAPS AS AN ACCURATE INDICATOR OF LOAD.

Check out http://flyaow.com/classamex.htm and use it in the 'one way' more to find specific flights and see what inventory is available. THAT is an accurate way to determine what's for sale on a flight.

Steve
 
usairways85
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:54 am

Capt078: Really, my family has always left for florida in the morning. I understand the situation where people leave right after work but then you get to florida around 9 or 10 at night and still need to pay for the hotel that night.

Why aren't the seat maps an accurate measure? Does Delta just pick random seats and make them reserved or something.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2856
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:26 am

"Sorry, but it's $399 each way"

No, it's not on non-stop flights. It is $299...$294 when booking online. It's $349 if you take a connection. The highest possible JetBlue fare is $599 one-way from LGB-SJU when the flights are almost sold out.

The highest (online) fares for JetBlue are:

$105 - JFK-BUF, SYR, BVT
$109 - JFK-ROC, LGB-LAS
$114 - LGB-OAK
$144 - LGB-SLC
$244 - JFK-FLL, MCO, TPA, RSW, PBI, MSY, DEN, SLC, IAD-FLL, BOS-FLL, MCO, TPA, DEN
$294 - JFK-LGB, SEA, ONT, OAK, SAN, LAS, SJU..LGB-IAD, OAK-IAD, LGB-BOS, FLL

These are only the non-stops, however.

JetBluefan1
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 am

While some say....if it wasn't for B6 there would be no song or TED, well guess again,..if it wasn't for SOUTHWEST there would be NO B6!!!! Thats right...no I am not working Southwest or have anything to do with them I have only flown them on two seperate occasions I usually fly AA and TWA(not any more).

But Southwest is THE TRUE LOW COST CARRIER AND TRUE LOW-COST STARTER!!!!! Southwest started the chain reaction...(no offense to PSA it was them that started Southwest as well.....)


all Jetblue did was take what Southwest had and EXPANDED IT by adding IFE and food etc etc...

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2856
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:24 am

Atrude777,

You are somewhat right. Since Southwest bought Morris Air, JetBlue was formed. Morris Air was run by David Neelman, the present CEO of JetBlue. If Southwest hadn't bought Morris Air, then it would still probably exist today yet be a lot different than JetBlue (ex: no IFE, no leather seats, 737's).

HOWEVER, Southwest DID buy Morris Air which lead to the creation of JetBlue. This is a fact: JetBlue stole market share from Delta Express. Once JetBlue came along, nobody wanted to fly Delta Express anymore. For that reason, Delta started Song - to GAIN BACK its market share. Song is also to help Delta stabilize. The launching of Song had nothing to do directly with Southwest.

Now the launching of Ted is due to Frontier, not JetBlue. It's also due to 9/11 when United started losing billions. If there was no 9/11, then there would be no Ted and perhaps no Song. However, that's not the case.

JetBluefan1
 
mjszanto
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:08 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:41 am

I don't think these "wealthy residents of Soho" are going to make Song profitable or competitive for heavily debt laden Delta.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:48 pm

jetbluefan1- Thanks for adding onto my words, your on my respected user list.


moving on--i agree with what he said if WN hadn't bought Morris Air who knows where B6 would be. another thought if WN hadn't fired Neelman...........:D bet they are kicking themselves....lol

I stand corrected about TED I can see why now thks for correcting me, yes I agree F9 added to the creation of TED, and Sept 11th played a part of it however thats probably another topic, another day.


Going with SONG- if that was the case of adding SONG to gain back market share why did they not add the IFE to 732, or upgrade the aircrafts to 738(As I thought they were going to do.) Iv flown Delta Express myself 4 times out of BNA and they were JUST like WN just a different airline. However the price was better on WN and service....but that was pre-9/11.

Alex.
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:45 pm

No, it's not on non-stop flights. It is $299.

hence, on transcons, as I pointed out, it's quite possible for it to be $399/$394 each way...again, demonstrating my intial point as being correct.

You can argue fine print all you like, but the fact is, when I made my statement that jetBlue had $700+ for last minute transcons, that was 100% correct (and remains that way) despite your claims that it wasn't possible.

Steve
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:27 am

I just got a quote from Song for a FULL walk up fare leaving on 8Apr(thur) and returning on 11Apr(sun). Both flights full. The full Y fare adds up to $595, evening up with $297 each way, within Song's pricing guarantee. There is no fare that would equate to any higher than that $595, according to the nice lady on the phone, so how you got that original fare is beyond even Song. Wait a week later and you can get an "M" fare on Song for $400 even. Just evening out the playing field.

Personally, I have flown Song and love it.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: CO Vs Song At EWR

Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:40 am

"This is a fact: JetBlue stole market share from Delta Express. Once JetBlue came along, nobody wanted to fly Delta Express anymore. For that reason, Delta started Song - to GAIN BACK its market share. Song is also to help Delta stabilize."

Oh my GOD, what a bunch of crap? FACT: Delta Express was already in the process of being ceased because of the newest Delta pilot contract which increased the DLX pilot pay to a point where it was no longer profitable. There is your fact. If you are going to post facts, Jetbluefan1, a key thing to remember is to make sure your facts are correct and in this case they are blatantly false.

I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.

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