User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Topic Author
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:04 am

If my understanding is right there are currently two vacant US gateways available to BA (CLT and SAN having being dropped by BA in '02 and '03 respectively) under Bermuda II.

If BA does not restart services to these destinations where do people consider it most likely BA (Or even VS) would consider applying to serve? (VS was able to launch services to LAS after BA dropped PIT).

What about SJC or MSY for BA, or FLL for VS?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:23 am

British Airways
***

Rumors have been flying as of late for San Jose, California
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:26 am

San Jose, CA? Isn't that essentially the "third airport" of the SFO area? Does OneWorld have a big presence there, or why would BA fly there?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
graham697
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:59 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:26 am

I think TPA would go daily before they add any new services, as it is improving drastically. Although VS here in TPA would be nice, anyone think it could happen?

On topic, I did hear about San Jose from a BA Pilot on my TPA-LGW flt.


graham at TPA
America's Favorite Airport
Looking forward to the new AA
 
RiverVisualNYC
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:11 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:27 am

Realistically, I think BA will be dropping US destnations before it adds them. Just watch the news. As long as they are a target of Al Qaeda and are subject to random US government-ordered cancellation, detention, and inspection, I don't think there are going to be alot of people clamoring to fly BA (or any airline) between the US and Europe....I say this as a fan of BA and someone with a 6-figure Executive Club mileage balance.
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:28 am

I have also heard London-SJC. It is the third airport, however, AA has a sizeable presence there. I would put my money on SJC.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Topic Author
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:31 am

Hmm, well if BA were to drop further US destinations, what happens when the time is right to restart them? Can VS challenge to operate dropped BA routes/new routes itself? Or does BA hold the rights still even though it's not operating them?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:32 am

Ok, if AA has a big presence there, then it might make sense - and seeing that the SFO flights don't usually suffer from a lack of pax loads, it might make sense... somehow I've just never seen SJC as an airport interesting for flights from Europe - but, then again, I've never been to SJC, so I cannot really judge it...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:37 am

Leskova- I would guess if more flights were added to the Bay Area, they would be added to SFO. It has a few one world airlines (BA, AA, CX) and EI is supposed to start flights in 2004, so nothing to sneeze at there either. I would guess a 3x weekly LGW-SJC if that flight is started, or an additional 3x 744 is SFO gets increased service.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:42 am

Well, I'd probably be less surprised to see those additional 3 744s to SFO...

As to other possibilities: which of the top US international O/D markets does BA not serve yet?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:07 am

San Jose
**

American Airlines serves Tokyo/Narita. One World as of recent has been very interested in the ongoing growth potential of One World hubs and or focus destinations. American Airlines has served Taipei and Paris from San Jose as well!

In addition American Airlines has been determined to have a stronger presence in the Bay Area. American resently aquired several new gates at San Francisco and is looking to expand there as well. Dont forget the West Coast has no connection to London Gatwick with the expception of Las Vegas in Virgin Atlantic!

If British Airways were to drop destinations the top to go would more than likely be Baltimore, and Charlotte.

Furthermore, dont count St. Louis out of the running with a large American Airlines presence be it regional or domestic can still effectively feed at least one daily London flight be it a 763 or 777!


LHR001
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Topic Author
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:15 am

LHR001, Charlotte was dropped in 2002. For the previous year it had been served as an extension of the LHR-Baltimore service after BA transfered a number of US services to LHR from LGW.

I was interested to see in another thread regarding LH's decision to drop PHX that BA may follow suit - surprising given it is upgrading to a 744 from a 777 for the summer season.

SJC would make sense in terms of feed for BA. SFO has good O&D traffic, while PHX has good feed from America West. AA could give BA good feed at SJC if it added a service there.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:30 am

Wasnt there a rumor a while back about American Airlines, Alaska Airlines, and America West joining forces in One World?



LHR001
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Topic Author
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:34 am

BA to Anchorage then?  Wink/being sarcastic
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:55 pm

I was interested to see in another thread regarding LH's decision to drop PHX that BA may follow suit - surprising given it is upgrading to a 744 from a 777 for the summer season.

Upgraded to a 747-400, but no longer daily with no more Wednesday flights. Still an overall capacity boost, however. On lower-yielding routes (and I am guessing the problem with PHX is yield, not loads), it is sometimes better to try to sell more lower-yielding seats in a bigger plane. Hence, why lower yielding destinations get high-density aircraft.
a.
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Topic Author
Posts: 1733
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:58 am

Makes sense. I know BA don't offer First on their PHX flights (Likewise with Denver) - so is this going to change with 744 operation as I thought they were all configured with 14 First seats?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:10 am

I heard a rumour of a EDI-GLA-JFK. I can't see it happening though.
 
as739x
Posts: 5001
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:12 am

Lhr001...what new gates did AA get here? News to me!
Rumor before 9/11 was that BA was looking at a 3rd flight, a 777 that would overnight here cause they were seeking a spot for overnight parking.
Its would be cool to see them swing a 777 into SJC, but I give that a slim chance.
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Guest

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:19 am

I really can't imagine BA filling better than a 763 into SJC to be quite honest. Most of the South Bay is within reasonable catchment of SFO, especially for international travel. Also, AAs presence at SJC really is not that strong these days. Most of the routes make their money on O&D, and a very sizeable portion of the NRT traffic is O&D.
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:56 am

With the economy getting better, I think several potential US destinations are cities that BA has cut recently, ie SAN, or CLT. I am confident we will see SAN back on the routemap by 2005 at the latest, barring another catastrophic downturn in the industry, or the entry of another carrier in the San Diego-Europe market.

Still, I think BA's most likely move will be additional frequency on some routes. We have already seen this on routes to LAX and IAH. As far as totally new cities, perhaps SJC, FLL, MSP, or LAS.

Aaron G.
 
EK345
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 pm

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:27 am

Why did BA drop SAN anyway? Is it a permanent decision or was it due to seasonal drop in traffic? Do you think they will restart the route come Spring and the weather warms up in SoCal???

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:36 am

We think that there is a huge opportunity for BA to fly LGW-MSY. New Orleans is such a huge tourist destination for European travellers, and you cannot discount the "huge" presence of British immigrants in the bayou. I was told by my uncle's sister, who has a friend who works as a baggage handler for F9 that the deal is almost done...its just paperwork at this point. Can you imagine a BA 777, AF 777, and a LH 340 all parked at the gorgeous up-to-date terminal at MSY (later KE and JL will start service to ICN and NRT respectively)? Its going to be pretty.

Signed,
The infamous MSY cult
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:12 pm

We're infamous now? Damn....impressive!  Smile

BA used to fly to MSY in 1982 with an L15...it routed LGW-MSY-MEX three times weekly. I'd love to see them back at some point.


Steve/New Orleans

 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:05 am

British Airways will be out of San Diego till @ least 2005... Just about a month ago they still had 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' listed on the terminal sign over Harbor Drive but, now its gone. If they were coming back to SAN this year, I am sure they would have left it up there.
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:10 am

I hope for MSP to get more flights to Europe, not necessarily BA, but anyone but NW. The only flights from MSP to Europe are operated on NW DC10s. Makes for a lot higher prices, compared to say ORD.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
EK345
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 pm

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:13 am

Last time I was at SAN they still had the British Airways curbside sign (this was I am guessing about 2-3 weeks ago). Anyway it really sucks that BA pulled out of SAN. Guess i'll have to fly up to LA from now on to catch Speedbird!

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:14 am

What sort of people from the UK would fly to SJC? Tourists? All UK tourists go to LA/San Franscisco or some other attraction in California, 'San Jose' sounds latin and most Brits would probably think it's in Spain or Mexico!
In Arsene we trust!!
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:17 am

New Orleans would suffer from the same thing as Orlando, Tampa, and San Diego... Low yields... As of late British Airways has not been all to happy with the lack of revenue on its services to and from Orlando and Tampa. San Diego suffered from a low yiled, as is Phoenis suffering from low yield.



LHR001
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:18 am

Quick Bermuda-II overview:
  • There can only be 29 city/gateways to LON
  • Only 12 of them have permanent LHR status
  • They [in most cases] can only be flown bye 1 carrier from each country, unless pax #s exceed a given threshold
  • LGW gateways can be switched to LHR if an LHR-approved carrier is the sole operator and can exceed a certain pax threshold in a 2yr-period

    ********


    with that in mind.....



    (CLT and SAN having being dropped by BA in '02 and '03 respectively)

    CLT is still an active Bermuda2 gateway. No one is currently utilizing SAN and STL.


    What about SJC

    No ammendment needed: SJC is a co-terminal with SFO for LON service, but not LHR service, as per Bermuda-II



    Although VS here in TPA would be nice, anyone think it could happen?


    Not with TPA's current USA-LON flow it can't.



    As far as totally new cities, perhaps SJC, FLL, MSP

    No British carrier my fly LON-MSP, just as no USA carrier may fly LAS-LON.
  • Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    Trvlr
    Posts: 4251
    Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

    RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

    Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:19 am

    Arsenal@LHR: I think BA doesn't really care if British tourists are unfamiliar with San Jose. The airline cares much more about business traffic on a route like this, and I'm certain that most businesspeople with experience in the Bay Area know where San Jose is!!

    Aaron G.
     
    kzba
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:27 pm

    RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

    Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:59 am

    San Jose has been courting BA a great deal these past few months, but we are not really looking to introduce new long haul cities right now. Truthfully, its quite the opposite as some cities yields are at their worst ever. The best that North America will see is an increase in frequency to certain cities, i.e. LAX, MEX, YYZ for the summer season.
     
    DeltaSFO
    Posts: 2407
    Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

    RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

    Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:04 am

    In addition American Airlines has been determined to have a stronger presence in the Bay Area. American resently aquired several new gates at San Francisco and is looking to expand there as well.

    Wrong as usual, Lhr001. AA has not acquired any new gates in SFO.
    It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
     
    LambertMan
    Posts: 1696
    Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

    RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

    Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:06 am

    Lhr wrote,
    New Orleans would suffer from the same thing as Orlando, Tampa, and San Diego... Low yields... As of late British Airways has not been all to happy with the lack of revenue on its services to and from Orlando and Tampa. San Diego suffered from a low yiled, as is Phoenis suffering from low yield.

    I thought TPA got increased to 5x weekly, and didn't PHX get a service upgrade to the 744? Correct me if I am wrong.
     
    kzba
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:27 pm

    RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

    Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:36 am

    TPA does have 5x weekly (except for Mon and Wed). PHX will be upgraded to a 744 for the upcoming summer season but lose service on Wednesdays. However, both cities yields are below expectations.
     
    ConcordeBoy
    Posts: 16852
    Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

    RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

    Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:43 am

    Be interesting to see if BA ever gets anything smaller than a 772ER for LGW-USA runs... doesn't appear likely in the near-term, particularly since they finally broadened their relationship with AA into codesharing.
    Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    rutankrd
    Posts: 2587
    Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

    RE: Potential BA US Destinations?

    Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:29 pm

    Thick question as I know the answer myself but some mortals reading these points aren't Masters of Economics.
    Yeald = $/£/€ per passenger right ?
    So for instance on a typical Transatlantic flight with say 40/F 80/C 200/ steerage
    The revenue from the F and C passengers would more than out weigh that generated by prolls in the back !
    So in fact you can potentially generate more cash by actually selling 1 F to as many as 10 steerage or say 3-4 Club to one stearage !
    BA response to use B772 with fewer Steerage seats and slightly increase Club and have same number of First as B744 .
    Suffice to say fewer passengers paying higher fare premiums mean lighter weight which can then be added to the very lucrative cargo uplift. Use a
    more fuel efficent aircraft= higher cash income = Potentially greater return/Profit right !
    With careful pricing its actually profitable to fly with the steerage and first cabins half empty so long as premium/club and cargo holds are full !
    Therefore BA reported declines in passenger numbers is actually the airlines policy.
    This similarrly applies in Europe with the swicth to A319/320 over B752 with the capacity cuts being at the back of the aircraft again.tThe cargo issue doesn't hold true here however so the economies must be tighter also BA don't offer a true First within Europe.