SHUPirate1
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Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:39 am

Was it to have so few IAH flights every day...I mean, IAH has 5 daily 737's from ORD, 4 737's and an A320 from DEN, and a single A319 from SFO...DTW has 7 737's, a 757 and a CRJ from ORD, 4 CRJ's from IAD, 3 737's from DEN, and nothing from either LAX or SFO...I mean, call me crazy, but it seems to me that two of the nations six largest cities shouldn't be so disrespected as to not be served from each and every one of UA's hubs...and I don't know about DTW, but IAH has two open gates (A14 and A15) right next to the three gates that UA is currently using (A10, A11, and A12)...am I crazy, or is it truly a stupid move on UA's part to be doing this...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
sprxflySWA
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:49 am

Well, how many CO flights are operated form IAH to IAD/BWI/DCA? I am sure it is one reason that UA does not fly to there from IAH. Same goes for NW at DTW. Plus, if they route one through ORD, it increases load factor on both IAH-ORD and ORD-IAD flights.
I am sure there are better reasons, but I bet also they do not have the a/c to do this everywhere.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:55 am

I'm not talking about Thief River Falls, Minnesota here...I'm talking about two of the ten (at least) largest cities in the United States...and if somebody from the Northeast wants to fly to IAH, and has free tickets on United, our only option is through ORD...I do the LGA-ORD-IAH run myself fairly often for my job, and I would much rather fly JFK-IAD-IAH, as JFK is much closer to my house, and ORD at times can be a madhouse...I think IAD-IAH flights, timed to connect with UAX (currently ACA) flights from the northeast, as well as LAX-IAH flights and more than one SFO-IAH flight (each timed to connect with Skywest flights from the northwest) would be more than beneficial to UA...heck, even those other flights to IAH could be flown in RJ's...why not?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
jayspilot
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:13 am

buy a ticket on Continental.. they fly it non stop from EWR (hub to hub) JFK and LGA.. its all part of the game the majors play with their super hubs being so dominated by one airline its hard to fly nonstop to city like houston, or atlanta or detroit from a city other then an airlines hub.. not much point to point..oh well..
 
flyf15
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:19 am

Wow, it does seem like theres a very overlooked market here. You should start an airline that flies nonstop from JFK to IAH.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:22 am

That's the problem with looking at only one facet of the equation... in this case looking at only one airline. There is far more to it than that. One has to look not at the total number of passengers in a market (A to B) but more at the number of "unserved" passengers in a market to see if more service is warranted. In the case of a superhub, chances are the "owner" of the hub is going to be heavily serving those areas anyway complete with connections to the rest of their network.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:37 am

Jayspilot-For one, I don't believe that CO flies JFK-IAH nonstop...I believe even with CO, you have to change in CLE...the only way to fly JFK-IAH nonstop right now is with a bizjet, if I'm not mistaken...

Correction: CO serves JFK-IAH ONCE daily with a 735...

InnocuousFox-I'm not saying that UA should make a focus city out of IAH...but the fact is that UA is getting whipped on the ORD-IAH and DEN-IAH runs, making a token appearance on the SFO-IAH run, and none at all on the LAX-IAH and IAD-IAH runs...UA could at the very least defend their own turf with RJ's on these runs...

[Edited 2004-01-04 02:38:46]
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:52 am

Call me nuts here, but DTW and IAH happen to be, respectively, the 32nd and 35th largest markets for United's Origin and Destination traffic...a little embarrasing for them, if you ask me...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:28 am

If they're getting whipped, then why are they still in the market...stupid United. They should definitely be operating 8-9 763's on that route. I think that with the large O/D traffic that they get from Houston and Detroit, they could easily fill the entire First and Business Class sections on each flight.

While as interesting to see the lists for the largest O/D markets, they can be quite misleading without total numbers vs O/D passengers carried both on the routes and from the respective cities themselves.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
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ramprat74
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:31 am

If you look at the amount of flights by the other carriers at IAH besides CO. They all have a limited schedule out of IAH. For being a city with over 2 million people. It doesn't seem to be alot of local traffic.
 
klwright69
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:52 am

CO's JFK-IAH is going to 2x daily next summer. Looking ahead it looks like it will stay twice daily through the fall.

SHUPirate1, you have have identified why it is so silly to say one airline has better domestic coverage than another, as some like to do in these forums. Each airline has its own strengths and weaknesses in terms of market share and coverage.
 
ORD747CLE
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:54 am

SHUPirate1 - I have asked myself this before, why so few flights? Must be that competition is extremely strong in that market. Heck, look at UA's flights to ATL. Everything is VERY tight because of DL's dominance.

BUT, I look at DL at ORD and they fly multiple flights/day to every one of their hubs.

I'm sure there is a reason and it's quite possibly due to the cut throat competition at IAH.

Ord747Cle
 
wgw2707
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:10 pm

These anomalies within the route network are the result of an airline focusing too heavily on hub operations. It is my belief that an airline, while developing hubs, focus cities and global gateways for most services, should also exploit point-to-point markets when the opportunity presents itself.

-WGW2707
 
UnitedFirst
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:06 pm

Call me nuts here, but DTW and IAH happen to be, respectively, the 32nd and 35th largest markets for United's Origin and Destination traffic...a little embarrasing for them, if you ask me...

As ORD747CLE stated about United in Delta's Atlanta, you cannot forget to consider the fact that while Detroit and Houston are large cities in the United States, with a reasonably large passenger base, these two cities are served by carriers which dominate each respective airport – Northwest at DTW, and Continental at IAH.

It's unreasonable for United to go overboard on operating flights, especially when they have to rely more on O&D traffic because these cities have a massive number of destinations due to airline hubbing.

-Derek
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:10 pm

wgw2707,
you wrote exactly what i was thinking...hopefully ted will try and do some point to point traffic...would be nice to avoid the hubs on some routes that have alot of traffic between the two....las-mid west/east coast...phx-mid west/east coast..bypass den/ord/iad altogether..also look at that little airline(g4)see how they are dropping den-las and focusing more on fnl-las and cos-las.....cos-las for g4 is a cash cow........
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:53 am

You guys are all ignoring SWA at HOU as well. It's more than just Continental in Houston.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
klwright69
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:38 am

Thanks for the reminder. Yes, SWA does indeed serve Houston. Please elaborate on how SWA impacts the markets being discussed. Explain what exactly is being ignored.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:04 am

It would only really affect markets where there is WN service at the other end... e.g. HOU-MDW = IAH-ORD
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
klwright69
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:41 am

Precisely. Southwest doesn't serve markets that SHUPirate was interested in discussing. From IAH, I think Southwest only goes to DAL. And from HOU I don't believe Southwest serves anywhere in California nonstop, and what to Denver?
 
aaway
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RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:12 pm

1 r/t N/S HOU-LAX for WN
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:41 pm

Not stupid: think : SFO-DEN-IAH, or LAX-DEN-IAH, or even LAX-ORD-IAH, see what I'm saying?
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: Does UA Need To Connect The Dots?

Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:02 pm

Pre 9/11, UA flew:
IAD-IAH
LAX-IAH
SFO-AUS
IAD-AUS
no wire hangers!

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