Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 2:21 pm

AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:20 am

Just wondering if American Airlines might go for the Big Embraer jet for a new 100-seater.Given that Amr is a big Embraer customer,I'm wondering if Embraer might offer them a good deal to purchases them.They would have good fleet experience with their other Embraer's, not to mention their low cost competiors are looking at them too.Working at AA,I've heard a lot of talk about this might occuring from pilots and mechanics.Wondering if anyone out there as heard simaliar talk or if this would seem like a logical choice. Thanks

RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:28 am

I guess I didn't consider this before... could be a mainline replacement for the F100s eventually; though it would get complicated, given than the seating on the F100 is hardly conducive to putting in a domestic first class, and that all AAs current Embraer pilots are Eagle; moving them into mainline would make the unions shit a brick.
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RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:39 am

Yeah, this would be great idea for AA will replace of F-100 to new EMB-190 anytime soon and who cares?
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AA CFO Resignation...

Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:47 am

Carty talked about it. I doubt it will happen unless Eagle gets them.TC
FL450, M.85
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RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:49 am

Why couldn't F100 pilots be trained for the EMB? If they were mainline planes, they would be flown by mainline pilots. No one knows what AA is going to do for its 100 seater right now. Maybe some better financed 717s or smaller 737s will come around for them.

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RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:57 am

I've also heard that AA may be replacing the little Fokkers with the EMB-190. However, this would require that the Fokker crews go through extensive and costly training on a whole new aircraft. It would be far cheaper to have ERJ pilots from Eagle trained in the 190's and put on mainline, but as Sjc>sfo had mentioned, this may cause union problems. To me, the logical thing to do would be to have the 190's operated by Eagle and have the once mainline routes flown by the Fokker now operated by Eagle in the 190's. Although I do realize that technically the 190 is not a regional jet, so I don't know how this would play into the scheme of things. Anyway, just my two cents.
Right rudder....Right rudder...Come on, more right rudder....Right rudder......Aw forget it, I quit!!
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RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:58 am

AA had some 717s when they bought TWA and then returned them...
makes ya wonder...

Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
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RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:24 pm

I would be very surprised if AA bought the EMB-190's. I could see them getting 737-700's, which would have slightly fewer seats than Alaska's -700's. Then pilots could fly both -800's and the -700's. AA could get the 717's, but then you have the commonality issue.

My prediction...and it's only MY opinion...is that AA (mainline) will opt for a smaller 737 model.

AA Eagle...now we're talking something totally different. ER-190's or CRJ-900's would be fine with me.
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RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:29 pm

AA had some 717s when they bought TWA and then returned them...
makes ya wonder...

No, not really. Many times over and over again on this site, we've explained that the TW birds were returned because of the poor lease rates.
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RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:23 pm

My gut feeling is that most mainline flying in the US of less then 120 or so seats is on the way out. 717's or E-190's would probably be flown by Eagle if management can get it past the unions. If they can't get the Unions to agree there would simply be no 100 seaters in the AA fleet
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RE: AA E-190's

Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:26 pm

I don't see it happening unless the two pilot unions are finally able to merge and have the transition in place like CO does. There wouldn't be any scope or arguing as to who would operate these planes. Until that happens, mainline will never let these planes become AE and AA management will not let it happen because they do not want to pay mainline wages for the crews.

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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:03 am

There are no E-190's in AA's fleet plan at least in the forseeable future.

TWA 717's were gone due to high lease rates
F-100's are on the way out due to overcapacity, high operating costs, an impending costly maintenance to comply to an AD for the RR Tay engines

AA isn't looking to add a new fleet type just yet. No new mainline deliveries until mid-2006. They will operate 25 CRJ-700's under Eagle. In the meantime, the 28 stored former TWA MD-80's will be pulled from the desert as capacity warrents.

Like all airlines, and in good business sense, AA has explored the E-190's. The only problem being the E-190's are not a good fit into AA's hub operations. Along with the numerous labor issues, and costs associated with adding another fleet type. The E-190's have little or no commonality to the original Jungle Jets.
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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:15 am

This thread has been discussed in many different forms. F100s are being pulled, and either replaced with more frequent Eagle service, or less frequent MD80's and/or 737s. AA does not need to replace the F100s, in point of fact replacing them would fly in the face of getting rid of them, especially if you replace them with a new cockpit.

The F100s are going away to 1)further slim capacity AND 2)continue the trend towards fleet commonality. It makes no sense for the F100s to be replaced by a new aircraft. The replacements for the F100s are the return of good business sense, the continuation of capacity caps and the more efficient use of the remaining fleet. Besides the fact that making 190s mainline would grind Eagle operations to a hault, and that is certainly not needed right now.
See you up front!
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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:33 am

Also, you should note the the TWA 717's lease rates sucked because TWA's credit sucked thanks to (how many bankruptcies?!)
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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:37 am

I wonder how far in the future are Embraer's 170 and 190 production lines booked?

"No new mainline deliveries until mid-2006" sounds like a match...

RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:20 am

Don't know what it means, but there are pictures of EMB-170 and -190 on the walls in various AA Eagle offices at Dallas.....
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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:23 am

Uh, have you guys not seen the CRJ-700? They are flown by eagle pilots but this plane does a good job between the CRJ-700 and the MD-80 (obviously mainline pilots) to not need a replacement for the F100. Dont expect a replacement for the F100 because its not comming. When AA gets new airplanes again you will be seeing the 738 and a few more 777's before they go with anything different.
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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:31 am

Flygirlhels, Embraer parked a truck containing a mockup of the 170 cabin in front of CP5 once a couple of years ago, in what was probably a futile attempt to sell planes to AA. They handed out lots of promotional materials, including posters, etc.--one of which I actually stuck on the wall of my own cubicle there--so they may very well be left over from that, or other similar sales campaigns.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:56 am

A friend of mine is an AA pilot, and according to him, AA has been looking at the big Embrears for mainline.

The original plan was to replace the F100s with 737-600s, but the -600 is not well suited for the routes that the F100 flies.

The reason that AA returned the 717 was that it didn't need 2 aircraft types that seated 100 passengers. That had been the plan prior to September 11th. Unfortunately, the downturn in the airline business has pushed AA to retire the Fokkers early. They had been slated for retirement around 2010.

The 717 makes sense, since MD-80 pilots could also fly the 717. But, the oldest MD-80s turn 21 years old in 2004. AA will starting planning its gradual retirement, probably within 5 to 7 years. The logical replacement is the 737-700. That would make the 717 a small fleet, just like the Fokker.

Since Eagle flies the smaller Embrears, the large ones are possible. I still think AA might convince Boeing to do some redesigning of the -600, to make it better suited for short to medium-haul flights.
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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:25 am

I thought previous flying experience doesn't really help much in flying the new EMB 170 and 190.
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RE: AA E-190's

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:53 pm

It's true, the Embraer 170/190 don't have much in common with the 135/140/145. So there wouldn't really be any significant commonality benefits in terms of training, spare parts, etc.

What it would come down to is operating costs--specifically, whether they are low enough for the 190 to be operated profitably by AA mainline. The current situation is sort of a Catch-22: AA mainline pilots will not allow Eagle to fly anything larger than the CRJ-700 in the foreseeable future, and even those are restricted in number, but at the same time, it's difficult to operate 100-seaters economically at mainline pay rates. And AA is not alone--the other majors are in the same boat, which is why we don't see a lot of new 100-seaters being ordered in the U.S. at the moment.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire

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