mckennasmall
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 5:00 am

Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:14 am

I find when it comes to middle eastern airlines you either get excellent service or you get horrible service. For example if you travel with PIA you will get ugly and not clean cabins and horrible service.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stuart Lawson


 Sad
but on the other hand you get excellent airlines like Emirates

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Sindermann


That there is economy, for some airlines that is there first class.

What is your opinion

Cheer Mike
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:31 am

Pakistan is not in the Middle East. So PIA could not be considered a middle eastern carrier.

 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:12 am

Middle East Airlines (MEA) is the only airline in the Middle East that I ever plan to fly on again.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Philippe noret

PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
mckennasmall
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 5:00 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:25 am

When I talk about middle eastern airliners, I am talking about the regions near to it like India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Kazikstan and Cypruss. They are not actually middle eastern but follow under my points I have stated
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:36 am

Mckennasmall,

Sri Lank, India, Pakistan are not considered Middle East by any stretch of immagination. I don;t think you can include these countries with the exception of Cyprus given its proximity.

Most of the actual "Middle Eastern" airlines have new fleets. That includes, Emirates, Qatar, Saudia, Gulf Air, Oman Air, MEA, Kuwait, Tunis, Air Maroc and they all offer excellent service and have impeccable safety records.

ALso, many of these airlines offer three-clas service which could never be offered on Air India, or Pakistan...

 
AF022
Posts: 1638
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:44 am

pakistan, india, bangladesh & sri lanka are officially SOUTH ASIA. no one considers them in the middle east.
 
hisham
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:48 am

Mike,
Just general advice. Make sure you have a basic knowledge about the issue you want to discuss. Otherwise people on this forum will trash you. Sri Lanka is not even close to the middle east.

Have you actually been on PIA and Emirates to compare?


"That there is economy, for some airlines that is there first class." That sentence doesn't make any sense. Read it again.

I'm not trying to offend you. But you need to make more effort before you start a topic.

Hisham.
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 9:31 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:04 pm

Yeah dude -- you don't get to decide what countries are in the Middle East. Geography does that.

I mean -- why compare Cyprus with Pakistan??
 
Tlima
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:31 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:42 pm

Comparing the Middle East to South Asia is similar to comparing Southern Europe (France, Italy, Spain etc..) to countries in North Africa. Just because they are somewhat close to each other, they have NOTHING in common!
South Asian countries are completely different in all aspects to countries in the Middle East.

Different races, cultures, languages, skin complexion, foods, history....You name it, it's different and there is NO common bond or similarity whatsoever between the two regions!

It's a shame to see what people know (or don't know) when it comes to world geography....

Cheers,

TLIMA
- Meden Agan -
 
mckennasmall
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 5:00 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:52 pm

I made a mistake. Sorry. I was just trying to show difference in service between high quality and low quality service in SOUTH ASIA and MIDDLE EAST. I have traveled with Emirates and PIA. I am sorry for trouble caused I thought that area was part of middle east. I have already put in suggestion for deletion and will start new forum K.
 
SV777KiloAlpha
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:11 pm

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:47 pm

I have traveled on most of the middle eastern airlines. I would rank them, in relation to the in-flight service, as follows:

1. Emirates
2. Qatar Airways
3. Gulf Air
4. Middle East Airlines
5. Saudi Arabian
6. Kuwait Airways
7. Oman Air
8. Royal Jordanian
9. Egypt Air
10. Syrian

 Big grin
HZ-AKA

PPL since 2006
 
EK345
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:12 pm

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:39 pm

ALso, many of these airlines offer three-clas service which could never be offered on Air India, or Pakistan...-Yegbey01

ummm.... NO!!! man where did you get the idea that Air India could never possibly offer a 3 class service? Just for your info Air India does offer 3 classes of service just like any other carrier. and if you have any doubts still then here is the proof:
http://www.airindia.com/page.asp?pageid=45

EK345
"and miles to go before I sleep..."
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:59 pm

Let's give the guy a break.

Of the abovementioned, I've flown with Egypt, MEA and Syrian. I've always found MEA's services excellent.
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:17 am

Well the topic as what lies in what region is very subjective...for instance some human decided whats inthe Middle East for us, its not a divine desicion.
True technically Pakistan does not fall in the middle east but Pakistan has alot in common with alot of Middle East...infact it is Pakistan where they draw
the line from M.East to S.Asia.Iran,very much a middle eastern country, borders Pakistan and do you think Iran has nothing in common with Pak??!! There are countless people in Pakistan who trace their roots
back to Iran and not the mention the province of Balochistan which is shared between the two countries.Infact the history and trade of modern day Pakistan has intertwined with the middle east for as long as history is recorded.But the most important fact that unites Pakistan very deeply with alot of middle east is religion and that bond is often stronger then any other....
TLIMA you mentioned that its like comparing Southern Europe to N.Africa..no sir its not nearly as drastic....do you think that the countries in the Middle East itself are all very similar to each other?You think Lebonan and Yemen are very similar to each other or you think Israel and Kuwait share alot in common?I have alot of very close friends from Gulf(Saudi,Kuwait.etc) countries and frankly there is more in common(religion,culture,family values & the like) between them and i(Pakistan) then they have with Lebanon or Tunisia or i have with somone from Srilanka.The national language of Pakistan contains thousands of words of Persian and Arabic,not to mention that it is written in Arabic script also. So to say there is nothing in common,as you mentioned, is very far from the truth specifically in the case of Pakistan....
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:25 am

Hey KHI747,

You are so wrong.....

Language has nothing to do with this. We are talking about "Geography"
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:34 am

Yegbey01 ...can you care to explain how am i wrong and what part of wat i said is wrong?? I said Pakistan is not categorized in the Middle East so that resolves the Geography dispute...im just explaining despite it not being part of M.East what it has in common...so unless you can challenge that i dont understand what you mean to say by "Hey KHI747 you are so wrong"...
 
KGAI
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:35 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:12 am

Mckennasmall, I have to admit seeing so many people dump on a newbie is pretty funny.  Smile

But they mean well (most of the them at least). It's nice to see that you have so much enthusiasm.

Don't let them get you down! But, uh, let's not go starting 20 threads in a day again.
 
Tlima
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:31 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:58 am

KHI747,

I do not want to beat a horse to death but I do not agree with some of your points . Pakistanis, Indians and Sri Lankans are not classified as Semitic or Middle Easterners. They are part of South Asia (Geographically) Just because Pakistan and the Middle East share a common religion for the most part, I still do not agree that Pakistan can be even be remotely considered being part of the Middle East.
Even though I do agree that countries within the Middle East are different like you stated (Yemen and Lebanon or Israel and Kuwait), they have a lot more in common than Yemen and Pakistan. Israel, no matter how different it is from the other countries, is still geographically in the Middle East. Just because it has a different language, it is still part of the region, the Middle East, and that is where the discrepancy lies.
Pakistan and Indonesia have the religion in common, does that mean that can be grouped together for comparison of a geographical area? I would hope not

No offense to anyone, but I know that a Pakistani, Indian or Sri Lankan would be treated very differently if he or she were in let's say, Saudi Arabia, then if another Arab was there.

Religion is perhaps important but it still does not determine who a person is, whereas a person's race does.

TLIMA
- Meden Agan -
 
YYZ4RADD
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:32 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:28 am

South Asians are treated worse than dogs in certain Arab countries. I know because I have seen arabs do it. I am not South Asian. Religion has no bearing on the way u are treated in the middle east.

But the humanity scale in the middle east is as follows.

Superior Being = British, American
Less Superior Being = Other Europeans and Canadians.
Medium Superior Being = "White" Arabs ( Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians) Iranians, Turks and of course Gulf Arabs, Kuwaitis, Emiraties, Saudis and other Gulf Arabs
Inferior Being = Malays, Indonesians, and other orientals.
Worse then Inferior Being = South asians (Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis, Indians, etc)
Worst fo the worst Beings = Africans or anybody Black.

And by the way no Arabs try to justify and oppose what I have said on this forum because I know what I am talking about.

My father was a diplomat for a unspecifed country and I have lived in the middle east a very long time and have met all kinds of arabs from the Bedouin to the Shaikhs of the Utaiba tribes (those Saudis know who these are), the Shaikhs of Dhofar (Oman / Yemen), etc.

This is not a racist post or offensive. I am sure many of those who lived in the middle east will agree.

In the middle east even Salaries are treated give according to this scale. You can two doctors with the same qualifications who studied at the same university but if u r passport is different then u r pay is different and so are the benefits u get with the job. This is a fact.

Even the laws are different. If are person with a western passport breaks the law and their embassies and country of origin makes as little as a squeak then they are released without punishment. But if you are from a lesser country and u break the law, heaven forbid if they will let u out of the country alive even if you country makes a appeal to the UN Human rights tribunal.

The only thing is the so called Superior Beings are now treating the Arabs in the same manner they used to treat all others inferiors, and humiliating them in every step of the way. Such is the way of the Almighty, praise the lord !!!

People who dont belive me, ask any South Asian or East Asian or African what I am talkling about and judge for yourself.

I think there is a saying in the Islamic religion, it goes as follows. If a people dont change thier ways and obey the laws of God, then he will bring another people to do his bidding. Its what happening to the Arabs now.

YYZ4RADD
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:36 am

Hey YYZ4RADD,

The Indian culture is a based on a very hierarchical system. This is why Indians, Pakistanis and the rest get trated like such in the Gulf.

I used to work in Dubai. Don't blame the Arabs. Blame the Indian culture.
 
KGAI
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:35 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:21 pm

I can back YYZ4RADD up on what he said.
I used to live in Bahrain, and we had a family friend who flew 767s for Gulf Air. He had an Indian passenger fall ill with appendicitis on his plane. He landed the plane at, IIRC, Abu Dhabi.

The local immigration officials barred the Indian from entering the country. The pilots argued with them for hours, while the man laid out in the airport, screaming, and eventually died after a couple hours.
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:12 pm

Even though this is not related to aviation but it's a good topic to discuss about. What YYZ4RADD says are mostly true. But I wouldn't agree that Arabs are now being punished for what they've done in the past.
As far as I know, things like this are not usually planned and reflect a certain trend in different cultures.

In my daily life, I try to give my full respect to people from the Indian subcontinent. I see a lot of Indians, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans in my daily practice and treat them equal with every other person, be them Lebanese or Europeans. It really hurts me to see sometimes people harassing Indians for no reason.
Also, your classification is well worked too.

You also have to agree with Yegbey though, Arabs are not the only ones to blame for it. Some of it probably comes from the previous colonial powers in those regions. For example, they keep referring to me as "Sir" in every other sentence, the origins of which sounds British.

Best regards.
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:28 pm

It depends from where you look at it, for example if you just take the Asian continent then, Pakistan and south Asia are not in the GEO/POLITICAL MIDDLE EAST, but if you look at Asia from the west and divide the continent in east/middle east/far east, then Pakistan and the other south as well as central Asian countries do fall in the not Geo/Politically identified region which can be called Middle East or Middle Asia to be precise.

Since there is a middle east than what is EAST? eastern Europe or all of Europe? that would be the case for those in America's so who descided to divide the regions into these categories?

Officially the middle east region extends from Iran to Egypt in some cases Libya and includes some other African countries, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco how ever do not fall into the middle east region in any way, the "middle east" has becoem synonomous with Arabs and their culture so thats why people including Iranian's and Turks who have somewhat Arab characteristics in them are included in the region as are Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco, which I will repeat again are not middle eastern, theyr'e Arab but North African or West African.

Please not that despite its close links with the middle east region but a European lifestyle Cyprus is considered European, though its not, Israel with its some whatt European lifestyle is vying for EU membership and some countries in Europe are actuually promoting this idea, so if Lebanon was non Arab do you think they would have carved a larger niche for Europe along with Cyprus and Israel?, infact had Turkey been non-muslim I'm sure the middle east map would have been quite different, making it limited to purely Arab/Muslim states.

So Mckennasmall you're right in a way because you saw Pakistan form that angle, i.e Middle Asia, but Pakistan is not middle eastern as such.

YYZ4RAD is so right, and I myself am feeling a hint of arrogance and pride from the middle eastern/Arab members here who are posing themselves as superior to other's, i.e Pakistani's and South Asian's, maybe "brotherhood" based on religious bonds is passe for you all, should we aslo see things that way, abandon the Palestinain cause, which has alway's been considered an "Arab issue" by the middle eastern countries and establish ties with Israel to our benefit, India did that, and Israel would love it too, any ways let me remind you of the prophets(peace be upon him) saying "No Arab is greater than non-Arab, and no non-Arab is greater than an Arab, you are all equal and brothers in Islam".

.....up there with the best!
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:20 am

Disagree with most of what has been said.

Indians/SriLankas.... whom I have worked with in Dubai, seem to consider themselves as a lower class of the society.

Even among themselves, there seems to be classes of hierarchy.

You don't see that among Arabs or any other soceities working in the Gulf.

 
KGAI
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:35 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:40 am

"Disagree with most of what has been said.

Indians/SriLankas.... whom I have worked with in Dubai, seem to consider themselves as a lower class of the society.

Even among themselves, there seems to be classes of hierarchy.

You don't see that among Arabs or any other soceities working in the Gulf."



Yes, Indians/Pakistanis/Sri Lankans/Bangledeshis can have a lot of class awareness, and the Indians and Pakistanis you see in the Gulf are mostly laborers from the lower class. I've noticed that Indians in the US are totally different.

But I disagree with the notion that Indians perceiving themselves as lower class leads to non-Indians treating them that way. That attitude pre-existed in the host countries.
Of course, being submissive re-enforces the behavior, but I don't think it's the cause.
 
YYZ4RADD
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:32 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:48 am

Methinks Yegbey01 is an Arab who tries to shift the blame on the others. I have nothing personal against you friend, just pointing out the obvious. This is exactly what is happening in the middle east as I tried to point out earlier.

When the disenchanted in the Middle East try to complain, somehow or the other the blame is shifted on them. I am not a South Asian but how people are treated.

There is to a degree blame must fall on those for having the colonial attitude, I would say only 25% of the blame should fall on them, not all the blame.

I live in Canada, you dont see Indian and Pakistanis treated the same way. In fact in the USA most Indian / Pakistanis are respected a lot for their education. The same goes for other people's such as Malays, and other races the Arabs consider as inferior.

Denial, haughtiness and arrogance will not achieve anything but a proper discussion with differing points of view will.
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:56 am

Hey YYZ4RADD,

why do you try to deny actual facts???? Even in India, labourers in their own country are treated like shit.

My colleagues used to tell me, "we are Indians so we have to accept getting paid less than candians..(even though they were more qualified and even though when the bosses were British..) That is the reality in all the Gulf. If they accept being treated as such, there's no one to blame but themselves.

Like I said, it's a something within their own culture. You can call colonialisim or whatever you like. And I also agree with that "Sir" thing too. I felt terrible many many times when people keep calling you "Sir" for no freeking reason.

 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:29 am

And what perverted delight are you getting out of the real facts of south Asian culture Yegbey01? I dont see yopu condemning it, instead your attitude is smacking or arrogance and a superority, with a "they deserve it" undertone.
.....up there with the best!
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:38 am

Airmale,
All I am saying, is that Arabs are not to be blamed for this.

YYZ4RADD is trying to paint an entirely different picture by comparing third world countries to North America.

It's not a "they deserve it undertone", it's something they have to change by themselves. But that change has to happen in their own countries. The sad thing is that they brought their very same culture to the Gulf (not North America) and that's the reason why you see that kind of prejudice in places like Dubai, or Qatar or Bahrain....


That is my point!
 
KGAI
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:35 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:03 am

Yegbey01

You worked with Indians/SriLankas in Dubai, for what, 1 week?!?

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Yes, Indians are class conscious, but ALSO Arabs discriminate. Those are not exclusive facts, and nor is it at all clear that one leads to the other. How is it logical that Indians being submissive automatically leads to people discriminating against them?


Your reasoning is the same as blaming blacks for being good slaves. Blaming American Indians for being backward. Blaming beat up women for being too weak against their abusing husbands. Blaming victims.
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 9:31 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:12 am

As usual, you all have left out El Al in your analysis of "Midde East airlines."

Personally, I'd put them in the middle of the pack. Not up to the levels of EK, but about on par with Kuwait or Saudi Arabian. And, of course, they serve alcohol!
 
KGAI
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:35 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:21 am

Several of the Gulf airlines, I know for sure Gulf Air and Emirates, uses a lot of foreign crew. You'll see a lot of far eastern Asians and Europeans serving as flight attendants.
Those 2 also have western management.
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:22 am

Haveric,

The question was about countries like India and Pakistan being part of the Middle East. Israel is in the very heart of the Middle East.


For the most of us, it's very hard to draw any comparison of the level of service of El Al and that of other Middle Eastern based carriers. But my guess is that the service would be up there among the high end, but not like Emirates.

regards
 
OD720
Posts: 1856
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:46 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:58 am

Haveric,

EL AL is an airline from the Middle East but most of us would never be able to experience it. I also would guess that they have a good service.
Do you think they will ever buy Airbuses given the level of the cooperation Israel has with the US?

Regards.
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:32 am

Well as to who is treated as what where depends alot of the socio-economic status of the person....The Pakistanis who work in the Gulf are almost entirely poor laborers or other blue colored workers, although that does not entitle them to a bad treatment, the sad truth is that those same labourers within Pakistan are treated just as bad as in the Gulf...no better! Pakistan is host to a large population of Bengali workers, and despite them being categorized as fellow "South Asians", the Bengali's in Pakistan are treated no better then how South Asians might be treated in the Gulf...if anything even worse,be it treatment at the hands of officials at the airports upon arrival in Pakistan or the Police and this is a fact that anyone whose lived in Pakistan would admit.So if the gauge to judge what lies in one region is by seeing how they are treated then i dont think one would be able to categorize Bengladesh and Pakistan in one region because Bengalis are very often "treated worse then dogs"(borrowed by a reply above) in Pakistan too.
My point is you can not define what lies in what region or negate the commonalities i mentioned above between Pakistan and M.East by saying that the people are treated like this and that.Some of my closest friends are Arabs from Gulf countries and we have discussed this issue many times and it all boils down to the socio-economic status and although unfortunate thats how it is not only in the Gulf but within Pakistan also...poor people just aint treated right NO matter where they are from
 
hisham
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:21 am

And by the way no Arabs try to justify and oppose what I have said on this forum because I know what I am talking about.

Whatever you say my lord.  Laugh out loud

Hisham.
 
YYZ4RADD
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:32 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:27 pm

The reason I said no no arabs say this is because.....it ends up boiling down to a defensive posture by many Arabs.

I am not taking a higher position Hisham just a point of view. Anyways those is Lebanon don't need to give me lessons on social etiquette and treating others. I have been there and have never seen such arrogance in an Arab country. Hell, they even treat other arabs bad.

Anyone checking the BBC will see that several South Asian housemaids have been burnt, raped, thrown out of windows and even murdered in Lebanon. This was within the last year. It doesn't differ in other Gulf states either.

Yes I agree Lebanese women tend to be the most beautiful I have seen and Lebanon is quite cultured but that is no reason for everything else.

Beirut was once known as the Paris of the Middle East. Now the Onus is on Dubai because of many reasons, among other things the previous Lebanese civil war. That said and done Lebanon is quite a country and quite breathtaking. So I hold no grudge before anybody tries to point that out.

I agree, this treatment is not limited to Arabs alone. Many South Asians do it to themselves not only with other South Asians but within their own ethnic communities as well. I for first hand know how certain Indians treat each other. There is a community called Tamils in South India and Sri Lanka. They epitomize racism and prejudice among the Indians I belive. The racism within their own community as such. A man who is from a Fisherman caste will be discriminated if he applied to any job or etc. In thecity of Jaffna a man from
the "untouchable" cast cannot eat or drink from the same utensils as that of a Brahman or Brahmin caste. Some of these attitudes still exist among these communities in Canada. I have come across many in London, UK, USA, France, etc..

There are socio economic classes within themselves as well. But the fact is it happens more in the Middle East and among South Asians than others. Either that or their attitudes are more pronounced or publicized.

On another note, why would El Al buy Airbus, the Europeans don't go about giving grants to Israel. Anything Israel gets from the USA is either free or heavily subsidized, they won't get that deal in Europe. At least not for now. Also at the moment I think there is some tension between the EU and Israel over some harsh words. When the Middle Eastern countries (except Israel) buys from the EU or USA it tends to be at cash or a simialar equivalent. With the exception of SV and KU all other Arab airlines serve alcohol.

Also the Kuwaiti airplanes are bought on something called an Islamic Lease (SALT-2 or something) in comparison with SV, Emirates, whose planes are bought on bridge financing loans from Chase Bank and other American, European and Japanese banks. For these and other information, please refer to this website for the Arab Air Carriers Organization....http://www.aaco.org.

By the way, lets not get personal OK....this is a discussion forum, lets keep at it at that.

Regards,

YYZ4RADD.
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 9:31 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:00 pm

Israel does not get their planes for free from the US govenrment. Far from it. They buy only Boeings because it is a strongly encouraged gesture of thanks to the US govenrment for the large amount of aid they receive. El Al receives the same discounts as any other airline.

A while back (maybe a yr or two?) there were rumors that El Al was looking at Airbus... Whether that was just to get a better price from Boeing, is anyone's guess. Israelis in general, howver, are very independent, so if they were to get a better price from Airbus, I bet they'd go with it.

Personally, I think either an 7E7 or a 332 would be great for El Al to open up some more long-haul US and Asian routes. Ashame they can't fly straight to Asia though...

I do suggest people try El Al when they get a chance. Service is much improved on the newer 737s and 772s, and it's far different from any airline I've flown. A cultural experience.
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Middle Eastern Airliners

Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:08 pm

Havetic,

As you know, El Al flies from YYZ to LAX. Prices are quite cheap actually. Usually cheaper than Air Canada or any other airline for that matter on that route. They advertise in some papers here. I think they sell a lot of tickets on that route especially that LA has a large Jewish community.

Doesn't El Al have any Airbuses? I thought they did?